Hmmm
 

Please explain the mass of over qualified people age forty and higher, dumped by major corporations during the last thirty years.
These are people with top-level skills, on the cutting edge of technology, dumped because they have committed the crime of being forty and older.

I am not running around blaming the rest of the world for anything, just pointing out the nasty :bsflag: that is real world employment today.

This is insulting psychobabble.
Even with skills, there must be commerce in order to make a living, when there is no commerce you go broke, welcome to the Detroit metro economy.
Some locals have overcome this small handicap by killing or robbing stores and Banks.

FYI (you pushed a button):
I am also an apprentice level Blacksmith, and can assure you the field is not obsolete or inadequate in the current market, several Master Blacksmith friends make low six figure incomes.

Amen.

The job of corporate management is to legally maximize the shareholder's return on their investment. Period. Social conscientiousness is optional.
Labor and related costs being one of highest controlable costs, why should management be motivated by anything other than keeping labor costs as low as possible? Poor management decisions in other areas are another matter. Management shouldn't take "cover" for it's mismanagment (whether it's poor products or planning or whatever) by making employees pay.
Ford is closing how many plants? Laying off how many employees? I can't imagine how the Detroit & Michigan economy rebuilds to offset lost auto jobs.

Corporations are not society's "Employers of last resort" That's Government's job. And at least here in New Jersey, they do it quite nicely, thank you.:rolleyes:

And yes, defined benefit plans (and their offshutes) still exist... they are located in your state and local governments, along with health benefits till death.

Public employee retirement and benefit plans are as outdated and as costly to society as the retirement and fringe benefit cost layers of auto workers are to the buyer of a Detroit vehicle. The key difference is, of course, governments don't have to worry about good management or falling sales. They just raise taxes whenever they need to !!:eek:

I think it was Will Durant or Tom Watson who said this:

"In good times, worry about bad"

Sound advice for managing business and personal affairs. Too bad no one does:(

It is a fact that older employees become more of a healthcare and injury liability, and sometimes their productivity and attentiveness falls off as well.

It is also a fact that some younger employees with the same skills, and sometimes MORE energy and stamina, will often do the same job for less.

Tough $h!t.

Either find a way to make yourself valuable enough as an employee to overcome all of the above.. or suffer the consequences.

Once again, self-employment bypasses all of this BS in the first place.




You can thank your local auto workers' union for that... American auto workers in your town have been turning out consistently worse and worse product over the past couple of decades or so, while demanding more and more in salary and benefits. Obviously that train was going to derail, and now you're seeing the results.

Well, then you've found your own solution: Continue your blacksmith training, and then when you're a master blacksmith, you can work for your self and make six figures like your buddies. :P

Mike

Well the Detroit economy must be pretty bad, with Ford and GM dumping people left and right. I know some real estate investors that consider it a poor area to invest in at the moment.

On the other hand my area which is very close to NY is so flush with cash its crazy. The world markets are good for some areas, and from what I have seen very good for this area.

I don't really have a problem with outsourcing, in those countries those are good jobs. So what if they are making $100 a month, they are extremly happy to be making that $100. Child labor is still an issue but less and less of one. Also a lot of the cost benifit of outsourcing is eaten up, through various things. Transport being one of them, so very ofter it doesn't pay to outsource. Especialy when you can use technoligy to reduce your work force.

Also a couple of years back I remember reading a very interesting study about outsourcing. It concluded that we only actualy lost a handfull of jobs. But if you add up the jobs we outsourced, then subtract the jobs we create, and that are outsourced to us, you just about break even.

Workers are expensive, the company usualy has to make 2-2.5 times what they pay you to BREAK EVEN on you.

Toyta is doing damn good, and has a lot of work in MI.


Which is what I do. Print reading, Mig/Arc/Oxy welding, Mill/Lathe work (both manual and CNC) Hydraulics/pneumatics (mostly bimba cylinders) and AC/DC wiring/PLC&Relay logic.

...and I'm 19.

Detroit Can Support More Retail Development
Detroit has the market to support more retail development, according to a report published by the Brookings Institution, University of Michigan, Detroit Economic Growth Corp. and Downtown Detroit Partnership. The report claims there is demand for 125,000 sf of grocery stores in downtown Detroit and 389,000 sf of clothing, furniture and electronics retailers. The report also said the expanded downtown area has a workforce of 193,000 and if worker spending is estimated at $1,800 per year that translates to a spending potential of $350 million.

Someone is going to make money in the Detroit market.

I'm hoping for more after this electon.


"You'll be blown away..."

“You had all the right qualifications for dismissal - good at your work, loyal, discreet...”

George Smiley

From the novel and mini series: Tinker, Tailor, Soldier, Spy

So true. If your salary is above the market value for that position and you don't want to move on, you're out the door the next round of cuts. Your only solution is to move on to the next level, manager, director, VP, where the compensation is more directly tied to performance.

But that is the trick, isn't it? They want to stay where they are and somebody that can do the same for less comes along and they want to gripe that they are now out of a job.

Same holds true in the Federal government these days. There is something called A76 which competes government workers against contractors. Many old-time federal workers are rightfully nervous. Some government agencies now consist of 90%+ contractors. This gives the fed bosses great leeway in hiring and firing people. The underlying (and true) notion is that workers at certain levels, usually technicians, etc., are interchangable.

I suppose the fix to that is to make yourself indispensable, isn't it? Shop the competition and see what they are selling and make yourself worth more. My wife is constantly getting better trained and what not in spite of the fact that she was in a union shop. When she went looking for a job, they didn't want her at that time because she didn't have hospital experience. Well, she listed out to the department head all the other experiences she has had and they offered her the job. Why? Because she educated herself and did other private duty nursing that involved many other different skills that many of the people in the hospital don't have.

It is up to you to change things around. She had a degree in Philosophy and a minor in Political Science because in Singapore, they tell you what course you will persue irrespective of your inclinations or grades. That way, they engineer enough people so that one field doesn't have a job shortage. She could not get any job stability with that degree. Went into nursing and changed things for herself.

Well put. I've heard way more than one small contractor talk about how his lead carpenter is making more than he is and doesn't have to work late into the night on paper work.

Then there's the *********s who pull workmen's comp scams in search of a really big payday. One such twit had a hand in pushing my former company (my employer, not MY company) into bankruptcy.

:D

How's that go about revenge being a dish best served cold?

Well, yes. However you are comparing apples and oranges with that tho. In Madison, you could make $33/hr being a hospital RN or $24/hr being a clinic RN. Lets assume both are first shift. Why the disparity? Well, clinic RNs work Mon-Fri, no holidays. Hospital RNs work based on the schedule which includes holidays and work every other weekend. You give up something to get something. Want more money? Give up your holidays, work every other weekend and have irregular workweeks. Want a more office type job so you can go play with your friends? Give up some money. The lead carpenter makes more money. However he has less say about his work. Be your own boss and have more say in what happens? Give up some more time of your own, etc, etc.