Employees are disposable goods
 

Note:
I am furious seeing the treatment that loyal employees are getting today.

:mad: Many companies treat employees as disposable. :mad:

Loyalty is demanded toward the company, but little or NO thought goes into the treatment of employees.

Don't get sick or allow long term illness effect your productivity, they will find a way to terminate you.

Expect them to cut your pay, and give the CEO/CFO a multi mega buck bonus for boosting their stock.

Expect them to phase out your job, then give the CEO/CFO a multi mega buck bonus for eliminating unproductive workers..

Expect them to move your job to Turkey, India or China, then give the CEO/CFO a multi mega buck bonus for reducing labor cost..

Expect them to blame you unproductive workers for everything..

Expect them to cut and slash your health care until you are forced to drop it.

Expect them to dictate your private life.

Expect them to terminate you at the first sign of protest.

Expect them to dump you just before you are able to receive a retirement pension.

Expect the company to DEMAND higher and higher productivity, beyond any possible human level, until you break down, wreck your marriage/family and/or drop dead.

Expect them to terminate you, if you refuse to work sixteen hours a day, seven days per week, and/or until you break down, wreck your marriage/family.

Expect that if you drop dead from physical - psychological stress, it proves you are (BAD) unproductive workers.

You have no more value to most companies than a computer, desk or rental vehicle.

Hmmm.
I may be just a little bit ticked off. :book2: :stunned: :eek2:

I completely agree. There is a massive and growing rift between employers and employees. It has progressed into the belief the all employers are heartless and their employees are expendable assets. The company I work with has laid off 300 employees with a few closing in on retirement. They did offer a buyout for some of the employees but its a slap in the face. It sad to see the lack of corporate loyalty to the employees and it seems to be a growing trend.

Raw materials are a commodity.

Finished goods are a commodity.

Capital is a commodity.

Labor is a commodity.

Management is a commodity.

All fluctuate with market necessity.

The difference between labor and management is shrinking as increased technological sophistication and education is required of labor.

Market changes are accelerating.

The likely result is that both labor and management will need to be more flexible and more innovative or lose to competition.

B

Unfortunately those above have said it better than I can.

The only time I was indispensable was when I managed an automotive machine shop supervising heads,hot tanks,align boring,semi-sizing and babbit pouring.

THAT didn't last forever,but I gained a great deal of experience and a lasting distaste of working for others,thank the Gods I can control my own destiny.

The only way to profitably utilize your skill and knowledge is to get financial backing and supervise others to do the actual work,I and a friend have set up a shop for restoration with upholsterers,a machinist and a painter,I stop by daily to check on what's happening and occasionally do the mechanical assembly and measurements myself.

Here's the rub...they're all Cuban,Mexican and Nicaraguan,the polisher and final detail guy is 100% American which explains why he always argues about why he is late for work..............

The few who survive eventually become one of "them."

What is this "loyal employee" you speak of. Oh, you mean those that get paid more than $10 an hour? Lets see, my wife stuck with the hospital for 5 years and in that time, she has seen many RNs change jobs like underwear. Wal*Mart? See above. Why? Well the guy across the street pays me $10.25 and you are paying me $10? See ya! People have no loyalty to the company. Many old timers are shocked because they stuck with a company thru the long days, etc, etc. Today, the name of the game is "What have you done for me LATELY?" and it is on both sides. Corps want the max from you and you want the max from them. If their max is less than another's max, you are gone. Loyalty is a thing of the past. At the MB dealership, I see a lot of familiar faces. On the other lots like GM, Ford, Chrysler, today you are dealing with John and tomorrow it might be Susan. Every month it seems like Wal*Mart is changing faces. I hardly see the same people for 6 months. So, everybody is like a Bic not a Zippo.

Actually I liked my previous job with Target corporation a lot. Five day weeks, good discounts, lots of vacation, flex schedule, etc. I wouldn't have quit if I felt like we still needed two incomes.

oh man.


I'm facing this right now. I get calls from work nearly every weekand (mostly in the morning, a couple of hours right after I fall asleep) to call me in for a half an hour to set up a machine because no-one else in the shop bothers to learn how to turn 2 bloody knobs. Or how about the call in on a sunday morning, when I'm 30 miles away; all for a Pilot valve (ITS FOUR FCUKING BOLTS) And of coarse, the boss uses the other workers as an example - they all log in ungodly hours and are there every weekand; But he never has anyone to do my job.

...and then he wonders why I'm depressed. I'm the only one there with a desire to learn.

/rant.




I'm goona go read "The Jungle" again. It's been awhile.

I have worked for many complete Asses ;
I guess there are fewer companies that actually value the people that make them profitable.
Probably part economy, part technology.

Glad I work for myself now.

It is hard with a larger company to play favorites without attracting a lawsuit of some sort in the world today. So, if you are going to treat everyone the same and most of the people are trash, what would you do?

Coming from an accounting perspective employees are either a short or long term expense. They can and are downsized like any other expense.

Good employee's are hard to come by and should be held onto. But in the 21st century they are a commodity like anything else.

Its a complex subject. If you want a job expect to change said job 3-6 times over your working life.

wow:ukliam3:this post screams of what im going through.
i have been down sized twice, yes twice.
1st job i literally put them on the map. i was the 1st salesman they ever had, the 5th employee. 5 years work, start making great $ the 5th year and WAM have a nice life:bigcry:
i got a job helping my friends company the same day i was fired, its in the same field on a temp position basis.
in about 10 days i replaced the "great job" not! with another at 1/2 pay same field. 1st year i was top sales in my region [mistake] i didnt even know until i was called up @ convention. next year they change every thing i cant sell this, than that, then this account goes away, this territory in now yours [crap]
sales go into toilet and im gone by 2nd year "downsized"

so screw them all :scream: i opened a small store in a small town and soon i can pay some of my bills i hope sooner than later.

NOt quite sure what you are asking but I''ll give it a shot;
If I am running a larger co.

1- WHy would I want to play favorites?
2- Why do you have to treat everyone the same.??
3- If I was running a large company I wouldn't hire mostly "trashy" employees.
What kind of company is this?
If you run a crappy company , you are going to attract crappy people.
and visa -versa....

1. Well, some work better than others. So, if I could get away with it in a larger company, I would prefer to play favorites. You are better? I'll give you better treatment. You are so-so? You get so-so treatment. You suck? You are out the door.

2. I'd rather not but I would be afraid of people starting to accuse me of favoritism although they would be right if I could do it.

3. Not always. You can't always get the good employees you want. We have had good employees like our top salesman who later tried to backstab us and steal the clients. So, there might be some places where I want somebody good but not too good. Another thing, certain jobs are just that way. Can't always attract top grade employees to a lowly job.

1- Not necessarily playing favorites, but rewarding good workers for a job well done. Playing favorites is maybe the wrong term.

2- same as point 1

3- You said it..." a lowly job". Glad I don't have any employees. Not that I'm a bad boss, but I would only hire hot chicks......

If there was any justice in the world, the first company would come to realize that they needed you back badly, and would bring bushels of money to smooth things over.

Who knows, stranger things have happened.

I'd play favorites.

This is a hoot!

Fact one: Many employers are scum
Fact two: Many employees are scum.

I have witnessed this from both sides. "Loyal" employees who switch to a competitor for $.50/hour. Employers who reward good employees by promotong them to a wage that they cannot sustain.

Nearly all employees have an " Us versus Them" mentality--born from the labor unios--thanks a lot.
Employees need to remember that employers need to make between 2.2 and 2.5 times what they pay you just to break even---SSI, Medicar insur,Workman's comp, health insurance, dental insurance, 401K contributions,etc--it all adds up.

It's a vicious circle. Every employee is also a consumer, and it's the consumer who drives demand. If we could just restrain ourselves, just for a minute, from picking up that gallon jar of pickles, we'd be able to prevent every damn thing from turning into a whore market.

A crap-pile of generalities. Maybe that's the way it is where you work, but don't project that onto everyone else's employment. I've had lots of good jobs and I've provided lots of good jobs.

There seems to be a misunderstanding that this is something new.
There has always been and always be a rift in labor which started to get publicity in Detroit in the '30's.
If a company can get away with slave labor then it will. IMHO unions are the best thing for labor that ever happened in this country.

About 25 years ago I was working in supermarket after school. There was an old guy, Loyd, who was there for like 20 years or so. He was a great guy and we became good friends. He was about to retire and about a month before hand they found a way to fire him and ruin his pension. Needless to say he was very upset. He worked so many years for that company and they dropped him for no reason. Well actually there was a reason.....MONEY.

Danny

cmac this is funny my boss that fired me was fired by the CFO 1 yr after i left. he was replaced buy a new guy that lasted up until last month. this guy before he left/fired i dont know which, was interviewing me. i find out the terr. never made any good money since i left, it actually lost ground. they went through 2 salesmen and are looking for another. i told the guy "Bob" i wasnt interested in coming back :D mostly because of my new store and the fact that the terr. was much bigger. [im kind of burnt out on the traveling now] . so i hope they hire some other dope that screws it up even more :fork_off:
im lovin it

OK. I don't get this dispute. Especially if you are in an employment at will state.

1. You don't owe the employer any loyalty. IOW, if you find someone better paying or better something, even if the girls there are hotter, you can move there.

2. The employer doesn't owe you any loyalty. If he finds someone cheaper, better or faster, he drops you like a hot potato.

So, since neither of you owe anybody anything, why the gripe?

cardboard boxes
 

I once heard a boss make the comment that it was harder to find a good cardboard box than an employee.

Recently, I heard this man lamenting about how he can't find anybody good that will work for him. Eventually, the law of Karma will prevail . . .

Well maybe he is offering too low wages for the work? Who knows. As I have said, employees have no stake in the company so why would you expect them to bust their hump? Employers have no stake in these employees so they don't bother to retain them. What else do you expect?

Its true that lots of corporations and government agencies used to provide a life-long paternalistic umbrella for their employees. Remember pension plans?

Now the name of the game is to reduce or eliminate recurring expenses, including salaries. It's especially important for older workers to not rest on their laurels waiting for retirement. They have to stay competitive skill-wise and pay-wise or management will push them out the door first chance they get.

Loyalty? Thats more of an emotion rather than a skill or asset. And emotions are baggage in the workplace, unless you're making movies.

Its tough but considering the world-wide competition we're in, its hardly surprising. Other countries have it much much worse.

I walked in one morning only to be told after 12 years of service i was no longer needed...However, but this has a happy ending...for seeing the invevitable(sp) my current boss had me write out a job description along with salary requirements and I was hired the same day I got layed off from the University.

my part time job as Mistress of the Whips is much more lucrative and I like setting my own hours..

Perhaps so. However, OTOH, isn't it the employee also out there searching for the best deal and when he/she gets it, he/she uses it either for leverage or to get going to greener pastures?

So, as I have said before, since the door swings both ways, why the hue and cry? I the employee owe you the employer NOTHING. When I find a better offer, you either match it or I leave. So, reversing the equation, what do I the employer owe you the employee? If I cannot match the price, you would leave. You wouldn't stick around just to help me out.

People keep talking about employer responsibilities, etc, etc. What about the employee? Why does he get a free pass?

OTOH, you the employee can also walk in and tell the boss that Joe, across the street is willing to pay more for your services. As I see it, neither of you are obligated to the other.

Burning Question
 

Yes, employees are disposable goods. What of it? To the employee, the job is also disposable. Lets look at this scenario

I stock shelves at Wal*Mart for $9 an hour.

Target offers me the same job for $9.25. I take my act to to Target and quit Wal*Mart.

Wal*Mart finds somebody to do my job for $8.75. As such, they cut me and hire this guy.

Why is one act acceptable and the other not?

I've worked at one unionized workplace. They were a pain in the a$$ because they would always complain when I took on extra duties. I did this because I wanted to, and because the older employees who were more entrenched pretty much refused to do anything. I was doing it for my benefit, not the company's.

On the other hand, management was far worse. In the end I got angry and left that job because management seemed to be completely incompetent. No, I take that back, they were completely incompetent. I decided I just couldn't work for them anymore.

The surly attitude of the union stewards there was probably a direct result of dirty/stupid/ridiculous tactics of management over the years.

I prefer to work for smaller companies where I am more than just a number to the people who make the decisions. But I have worked for more than one large company, and the competence of middle management seems to be a big factor in whether the employees are reasonably happy or whether they want to kill themselves when their alarms go off in the morning.

I've never been fired from any job since I was 14.

That would be okay (though reprehensible in a civilized society), if the corporations didn't keep yammering about how employees are supposed to be loyal to their companies.

Noise about "at-will" employment is just that, noise. What it means is, the company can fire you at will. It doesn't mean you can find another job at will. (You're free to look, of course. As I did for eleven months during 2001-02, after being "laid off"/"let go" from my IT job.)
.

I think a lot of problems like this are the result of people being in adversarial relationships. In the end nobody really "wins." A lot of foolishness ensues because everybody is out to "get" the other side.

People often assume this is true of salesmen and their customers. I'm a salesman and I always try to work with my customers, not against them. That's the best way to cultivate long-term relationships. Some people just can't seem to relate that way.

The same is true of employers and employees.

Yeah well, words only go so far. Employees are supposed to be loyal to the companies and companies are supposed to be loyal to the employees. However, like in any relationship, it goes both ways. I don't see the loyalty in you and you won't see the loyalty in me. Oh, but you will get the lip service (Not the Jenna Jameson kind tho). Of course, when I go to an interview, I tell them how I would like to grow with the company, etc, etc. Think I mean a word of what I say? Sure, until a better offer comes along, I do.

Yes, the company can fire you at will. What of it? You can quit your job at will too and it doesn't mean the company can find a suitable replacement that will work out immediately. Remember, when you hire somebody, it takes a long time before they move from the status of dead weight to productive employee. You don't make them a penny for the time you are in training nor do you make much for them after you are done training till you get the hang of the job. For instance, it takes 2 yrs to train an RN to be an OR nurse before she is productive. A regular floor nurse takes several months before she can do her job as good as the others and meet standards. So, just because you leave and I hire somebody tomorrow, there is no gaurantee that this person will even work out. And after they do, are they going to be as productive? Maybe, maybe not. Crap shoot. If all they are looking for is a warm body, it is easy. My wife is leaving her job tomorrow. It will take a good 6 months just to train her replacement to do her job. How do I know? Because people in her position are being trained for 6 months. Oh, some of them leave after training so the employer is back to square 1.

Well, in a union situation, who do the " employees" work for? I'd shaft the union workers too. They are NOT my employees. They are just people I loaned from the temp agency (union) who are trying to get whatever they can get from me. Cuts both ways.

You know what? I have been on both sides of the fence. I have had employees that I paid fairly but they have left for greener pastures or basically went ROAD on me. I have also had employers that were jerks and I had to find something better. I don't *****. It just is.

People in temp agencies are in unions? Where?

For many, job hunting is a very unpleasant experience, similar to public speaking. Its a natural tendancy to put off unpleasant things, as long as the current situation is barely tolerable. I think thats the human trait that keeps people from seeing the writing on the wall when it comes to the longevity of their jobs. Denial.

There are situations where an employer will invest in its employees via education and training. Then the hope is that the employee will stick around long enough for the company to realize some payback. Its no guarantee, but maybe convincing the boss to pay for education will help you keep a job that you like. If not, then you still have the training, which looks good on your resume.

Look closely at the difference between a union and a temp agency. I don't see much of a difference. My wife was a union worker because she was pressganged into it. Well, the union controls everything and basically the employer cannot hardly do a thing. It is evident in their attitude that they owe nothing to the company. Everything is union derived. So, how are they any different from a temp agency or an employment agency?

Yes it is unpleasant on both ends. I have recruited people before and it is difficult to find people that are willing to stick around. However, denial is correct. So, if you adopt stupid attitudes and refuse to see the writing on the wall, whose fault is that?

Of course you have to upgrade yourself from time to time otherwise you will be replaced.

This really is nothing new.
Many of you are too young to remember, or to have even read about the revolution that Henry Ford started with his $5 day.
Prevailing wages for assembly line workers was $240/ day. Ford had tremendous turnover (think of the training costs) and absebteeisn, especially on Mondays and Fridays. He offered the $5 day (part as cash, part as a bonus) to get better employees. It worked.
It also raised wages throughout the country and made millions of assembly line workers into automobile buyers. That extra demand helped keep the assembly lines running.

The moron for whom I worked in the machine shop was a short-sighted bastard.

I was already running the place at 17 doing a helluva job when I decided to get more work as under my stewardship there was at least 45-60 minutes free time.

I hit the local dealerships,since we had a little used surface grinder I asked them who did their flywheels and clutch plates,they almost all said ******** did their work,O.K.sez I,how much you pay ********? $20.00 apiece,they said.
"I'll do 'em for 12.50,I'll take as many as you got".

Wasn't difficult to train my helper to set up the plates and grind'em smooth and level and this brought in an extra $300.00 a month after we got started,1970's prices.......

When Fat Bastard{shop owner}found out about this we had a royal falling out,didn't matter that the bank deposits were increased and that we stayed over some saturdays to get the extra work out,that's what we were in business for,so I thought,the plain fact is I went over his head,despite the fact all profit was his,I essentially emasculated him.

I was also banging his horny wife as well,{I loved older women,they knew what they wanted}when he was passed out drunk{he never found out}it was she who saved me by witholding the monthly sex she was obliged to endure from him,I also got a raise,but still,working for others really sucks.

Finally a little bit....ALOT of sense among a bunch of senseless posts.

That was then. Would it work today? With the disposable culture we have, I don't think so. Look at the Zippo vs Bic lighters. How many Zippos do you se and how many Bics do you see?

Uh, when you're in my field (auto mechanics) you better not be dead weight for long... usually once you're at the level of a few yrs experience, you just roll your toolbox in and start working. First day at a chiefly BMW shop after 3 yrs on mainly VW/Audi, I banged out four brake jobs, then had to ask for help on BMW self-leveling suspension; the second day, I taught the foreman how to do an Audi A4 timing belt. What you're saying is true in some cases but certainly not all.

Well, I don't know how proficient you are but if you have been working on Audis all your vocational life or say the last 10 years and suddenly you are in an MB environment, how long before you get as proficient as an MB tech of 10 years? That is what I am saying. General stuff, probably not as long but to know the ins and outs of the system? It would take a while. Now, to be really profitable, don't you have to beat book time? I know a Ford tech that would beat book time on a Ford and bill say 70 hrs a week. Went to work in a Chrysler dealership and he was probably billing 30 hrs and then worked his way up. Of course he was a Ford tech for 15 yrs and that made him very quick with Fords but not so good with Chryslers. In time, he became better and better. For the first few months, he was barely billing 40 hrs a week.

I think we should put out foot down to these companies
 

I have been at my job for 7 years and feel unappreciated by SOME of the upper management. I have NEVER called in sick, never been late- I am highly liked by all of our customers (I firmly believe in - treat people how you would like to be treated). I like my job, but recently, with some newer upper management, its like I (and most others) am always walking on eggshells, just waiting to be yelled at about something petty, or something that was not even my fault (but most of us feel like that- at least 98%).... all of this and practically working for nothing - I make about $2.00 more than I did when I started there 7 years ago - and that is how everyone else feels- even people that has been there- 10, 15 and even up to 30 years. I have been offered higher position, but not wanting the stress, for so little more money. We have one lady that has been there for 30 years and gets no respect from some of the management that has only been there for a year. She is not in a high paying position, but that is how she wants it, but I think she, as well as the older staff should get respect, no matter their position there. Also- its that "too many chiefs and not enough Indians" - thing going on there. Most are terrified to speak up- frightened they will lose their jobs. I do not care personally- I know enough people that I could easily get another job- I have actually been offered good paying jobs from our customers. I should take them up on the offer- but I hate changing jobs- and as mentioned, I like my job, so I can tough it out for as long as I can. I am not sure if it is like that company wide- its probably sporadic. I am sure there are some out there though that have it alot worse than this- with worse working conditions, etc.

Well, if you don't move today, the offer might not be there tomorrow. You owe it to yourself to look after your own well being. If not, you only have yourself to blame for whatever befalls you. As long as you are willing to take it and they are willing to dish it out, what complain have you? This is like me complaining about my lying, cheating, whoring, alcoholic and drug abusing wife. If she is that bad, I move on. If I stay because I don't want the change, what right have I to complain about how miserable she makes me?

You want respect? Earn it. Flapping your gums is not a way. You want to earn it? Go out of that place and show the people there that you can do better and that you deserve better. As long as you are unable and/or unwilling, what right have you to complain? I stay with my parents. Well, they tell me I can't bring girls over, can't drink alcohol or smoke in their house. Their house, their rules. What can I do? Well, I can get a job and move out to my own place. As long as I don't, I live under their rules till they die and will me the house.

I will continue to work at farm&fleet untill I cant stand the *****ing from the only female manager, who's dad is a buyer...

At the breaking point, I will page her, publicly humuliate her, and then say "thank you" at the end of my page, like any good employee.


I didnt get paied more, I just went from cleaning toilets, to helping customers....

o well
~Nate

At that point, you can kiss pretty much any reference goodbye. What happens when the next guy asks you where you worked and you reference them? F&F HR doesn't have to say much. When the next company asks them "Would you hire this guy again?" and they say "No!", what message do you think it will send?

Yes, you can think that you can not reference them but it can come back to bite you later.