Remember today 12/7/1941...
 

http://www.archives.gov/publications...arl-harbor.jpg

http://www.history.navy.mil/photos/i...00/g474789.jpg

http://www.ussessexcv9.org/images/Pe...bor%20(10).jpg


Score 1/0, but we evened the score.

My Dad was on the USS Hornet, have just previously departed Pearl Harbor for ops in the western Pacific. The Hornet, Enterprise, Yorktown, and Lexington were the secondary reasons that the Japanese attacked Pearl Harbor. At that time the world thought that the battleships were the critical source of naval power and aircraft carriers were viewed as an effective screen for the ships of the line.

The Japanese effectively destroyed our battleship fleet, all of them either of WWI design or treaty ships. They missed the carrier fleets. Both the Imperial Navy and the United States Navy would learn at Midway, the gravity of that mistake.

Bot

Yamamoto had it right,

Being that my kids are half Japanese, I wish you wouldn't use the racial epithet "Japs".

I was talking to the wife last night. How stupid could you be? Japan vs. USA, Nazi Germany vs. Russia? Napoleon vs. Russia?

i liked going to the VFW and listening to the WWII vets tell their story.. they like it when i come because they can tell me the dirtiest stories or the most horrific... plus i get community service hours for it...

then i get the vets that come in to my grocery store and i help them out we talk and i tell them thanks for their service in that last world war..

lol....King George had the same reasoning. England vs. the Colonies?

There were quite a few people here who piled on Hatt when he indicated offense at the use of the term '*******'.........

I have not used (and will not in the future) the term "Japs" on this site out of respect for you and a couple of others request not to use it, but I guess I have a hard time thinking about it in any other context than as an abbreviation and this is after spending a lot of time studying WWII, specifically with regard to the US media's use of the term contrasted with the very racist charicatures of the Japanese that appeared during the same time. Not trying to start a tiff here, but I am hard on the "its a Japanese thing, you wouldn't understand" explanation and it is the only one I have ever gotten as to why "Japs" is a racist term.

A variety of info:

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&q=pearl+Harbour+FDR

A couple of A-Bombs = score even (just another ball game)?

December 7th, 1941 was my parents' September 11th.

i'll never forget 12-7-41,it's my dads birthday.he just passed away last august,he served in the army at hickum field in hawaii.he sent my mom (before they were married)a coconut which to this day my mom still has.

i have probably used the term "japs" when talking of ww2. it was a very common term then and in writing about it later.

if i use it in the ww2 context i mean no disrespect to any persons of japanese ancestry now.

ww2 was a mistake foisted on the japanese people by their leaders. (iraq might be a parallel).

japanese people are in my mind deserving of much respect for their strong character, work ethic and many other positive traits associated with their culture.

being of gemanic ancestry i mean no disrespect to my forfathers when i use the term kraut either. if talking about benzes you can be assured it is a term used with affection, even though it was not a complimentary term in ww2.

i think in ww1 they may have called them "huns". i never use that one.

tom w

At today's ceremony, Tom Brokaw had a great closing

"You can hate the war, but you must always honor the warrior."

I do not consider it a racial term, to me it is simply an abbreviation, and was in common use during the war. Hence its use in this thread, which was intentional.

While I am not of Asian decent, my family is from Europe. I love Asian culture, especially Japanese and Chinese culture very much. I would never slam a country that I enjoy learning about, and enjoy the things they produce so much.

If you were offended then I am sorry, but in a historical context it is pertinent.

I think the term "Kraut" is used affectionately by Germans when referring to themselves. My family is mainly English, Scottish, Dutch, and German, and a recent line of my family immigrated from Bavaria. It is not uncommon to hear the word Kraut used at large family gatherings.

I understand that Japanese were called "Japs" during the war, but it is still an offensive term. Japanese never have and even now do not refer to themselves as "Japs". So it is different from the use of the word "Kraut". Try calling a Japanese American "Jap" and see how they respond. It is not a good way to make friends.

My dad referrs to blacks as "colored", because in his day that is the term they used. Our culture now considers the term racist, and we don't use the word out of respect to African Americans because they don't like it. My father continues to use the word because "that is what we called them when I grew up" excuse, but it doesn't take away from the fact that it is disrepectful.

We called Vietnamese "Gooks" during the war, but we don't call them that now. It is offensive.

I don't understand why "Japs" is still considered to be acceptable to all you guys.

The "historical context" is b.s., it's like so many other racial epithets are today.

At the PH ceremony today, none of the Japanese participants were referred to in any other manner than respectful. If it was good enough for the vets, it is probably good enough for a internet Mercedes forum,

Thank you. I had a feeling you'd understand. ;)

It most certainly is not BS. We can not and should not clean history to meet our 2006 standards. The best way to learn it is as it was. Really thats the only way to really understand it.

I talk to many WW2 vets that use that term, in addition some still will not buy cars from that area of the world.

I will refrain from using the term because it clearly upsets some of our friends here. But I stand by my position.

When I study history I want to learn it as it really happend, racial slures and all. Then after being learned one can have debates on such stuff if they wish.

I don't understand your position.

Basically you are saying that because Americans freely used a racial epithet in the past, then it is o.k. to use the term today?

Why is this different from using the "n" word today? You certainly wouldn't call blacks the "n" word because it was used historically.

Hatterasguy, regardless of it's historical pedigree, it's still an offensive racial slur, Pedigree does not make it any less of one. I don't think you meant to use the term to bring up some of the ugliest, racist themes of the late 1930's and 1940's, but that's it's true historic connotation.

Here is another aspect for the term subject to discussion being obsolete:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_American_internment

Excerpt:
In 1988, President Ronald Reagan signed legislation which apologized for the internment on behalf of the U.S. government. The legislation stated that government actions were based on "race prejudice, war hysteria, and a failure of political leadership",[

Clearly my position isn't clear.

For one I am not arguing about the term, I am arguing about its use in an historical context. If you think its racist, sure you are entitled to that. But that’s not what I am talking about.

I am saying that during the period of history that we are referring to, said term was used as an abbreviation as far as I can tell. Please correct me but I have seen a lot of news real footage and print. In the context that I beleive the term was used at the time, I view it as a typical "lazy" American abbreviation. I do not deny that there were strong racist feelings towards the Japanese during this time period, who could. But I think that connecting said term so concisely to said racism is short sighted and a mistake.

All I am arguing is that it was used, and in a historical context is quite pertinent to any discussion about this era.

Should we go back and edit all the various N words out of works done in the 19th century because we don't like them today?

But heck I love Japanese art, entertainment, culture, ect ect. Even have picked up a few words and sayings here and there. But what do I know.

http://www.jp.playstation.com/scej/t.../img/top22.jpg

How could one dislike a country that brings us good cartoons? Even if the currant batch is marginal at best, *cough*

http://www.denbeauvais.com/three_d/3d_images/KATANA.JPG

Katana's

http://www.maison-de-stuff.net/john/...n/SANY0016.JPG

And this, now thats a view.

I think everone is entitled to their own view ... this is what makes an OPEN discussion so valueable.

Personally I learn immensely through other peoples views, it creates consideration.

More than ever, times are very sensitive, esp. when it comes to such things ....

I see the term 'Kraut', I've never known it as a slur referring to germans ... I'm getting a real crack out of it. :laugh2:

I also have high respect for the Japanese, yet I don't even know much about them ... disciplin, traditions, ethics ...?

It's not that your position isn't clear Hattie. It's that someone asked you to stop because you're hurting them and you refuse to acknowledge it.

I was also under the impression that it was just an abbreviation.

You know, Japs is short for Japanese.

Chinks/Chinese. Maybe?

It never occured to me that it was a racial slur. I'll have to google it.

On the other hand, he did apologize.

I'm of Cuban descent and am hard pressed to think of an equivalent, shortened name that would be offensive to me.

They used to call us Puerto Ricans up in Kearny, NJ(Remember Kamil). It was offensive only because those crackers(offensive) couldn't distinguish between the 2 nationalities.

Have a great day guys. And leave Hattie alone. We have enrolled him in sensitivity training.:behead: :idea2:

Maybe he meant a Jewish-American girl or woman regarded as being pampered or overindulged.

:)

What? That's news to me. I thought all Hispanics were Mexicans.

Gook is not a good comparison unless there are "Gookanese" runninig around somewhere in SE Asia.

I think that is exactly what he meant to do--remind us of what the Japanese did to us at Pearl Harbor. And Bataan, Corrigedor, ect.....

This thread is clearly going to roll off course, but sensitivity to this term must vary, because a couple of years ago there was a little Japanese American (is that the proper term) girl that was the same age as my daughter and they were 'stored' in the same room while we were at mass on Sunday. I didn't know the parents but saw them after church one day and they were piling into a shiny black/tan Lexus 450(?) convertible hardtop, one of the first ones I had ever seen. I was getting into my shiny black/tan mercedes and waved to the dad and said, "Nice car!" He replied with a smile, "Its ok for a Jap car!" and waved back.

Back in the late 70's and early 80's, the most prominent hispanics in the NY/NJ area were Puerto Ricans. In Newark, you were either PR or Cuban for the most part.

Now they have been replaced by Columbian, Honduranians, etc... and most of THEM are called Mexicans by the uninformed.

.02

i will refrain from using jap in the future.

tom w

As the parent of children that are one half coon-ass American, what you say makes much sense to me Bot.

I think it was used because it was a 4 character word instead of 8

b...wouldn't that be niggardlyly?

so is the term nip derogatory too? (short for nipponese).

i never liked the term gook, even when nam was current. it is obviously degrading and has no redeeming characteristics.

tom w

G Sgt Hartman to recruits: There is no racial bigotry here! I do not look down on ******s, kikes, wops or greasers. Here you are all equally worthless!

Does that FMJ DVD ever get removed from your player, ak?

MS Gestapo
 

Look at the source of the comment. It’s coming from an individual whose tag line is MS Gestapo. The same individual who uses a photo of a WWII Nazi general in place of a photo of himself.

I find the comment Jap offensive. I find the tag line MS Gestapo offensive.

My grandfather fought German occupiers of Denmark as a member of the Danish resistance. He was discovered to be part of the resistance and spent the last 18 months of the war away from his family and business hiding from the Gestapo and certain death.

My wife’s grandfather escaped Hamburg in 1938 with the Gestapo close to his coat tails. He came to America, joined the US Army and eventually went back to Germany to interrogate captured German officers.

My father served in the U.S. Air force. I served in the U.S. Army. It infuriates me to see a leader of this board associate themselves with some of the worst elements of humanity.

Adding insult to injury are the comments of Japan’s natural beauty, her cartoons and swords. I mean come on now. It’s like saying ….but some of my best friends are….

I still can not figure out why one would want to associate themselves with the Gestapo.

My 2 cents.

I have a 5 disc changer. That and Schindler's List doesn't get removed. Both have their aspects of comedy.

That is the problem with this PC world we live in. come on people. Grow a thicker skin. Everybody seems to get offended at this, that or the other. Gimme a break.

:) Sorry, my bad attempt at relaying sarcasm through print.

I haven't decided wether I find offense with the term "Kraut". Once I do, some of you might be in trouble. (just kidding!)

I have no idea how they arrived a kraut anyway, except for Sauerkraut. Well, you irritate me enough, and I become a sauer kraut.

Does being of Cuban descent make you a Cube?
Does being of German descent make you a Germ?
Does being of Portugese descent make you a Port?
Does being of Italian descent make you an It?
Does being of Danish descent make you a Den?

There'd be a list of words that people find offensive, if it weren't for the fact that others find just the idea of such a list offensive.


Had they decided to make German the national language of the U.S.A., all this wouldn't have happened. :D Zere vuld hef bin perfekt order.

I never use the term because I know some of our friends on this forum dislike it. The only reason I used it in the original post, which I edited out of respect please note. Is because it was pertinent to the discussion, which now is sadly off topic. It was intended to be a flash back, ie something that someone the night of 12/7/41 would say. I was hoping said topic would lead to an interesting discussion about the war, or Pearl Harbor.

I have refrained from using the term in the past, and will in the future out of respect for the people who dislike it.

Yeah, that's what I figured. It probably would've been okay to post a copy of a banner headline saying, "Japs Attack Pearl Harbor". I'm pretty sure it came from newspapers shortening the word for headlines.

Oh well. Everbody needs a weekly evisceration. Your turn.

B

Clearly you miss understand my stances on many issues. Heinz Guderian was an extremely interesting German General, I suggest you read his book sometime. He developed tank tactics that revolutionized warfare. If you knew anything about him you would know he was largely against the war, and was frequently on Hitler’s s*** list. This fact is amazing because people on said list didn’t usually live long, but for some reason he did. Hitler just for lack of a better term fired him after 1941. He was held after the war, but released because we found his actions during the war in line with the proper behavior of a General.

I enjoy studying WW2 and the leaders of said war. General Patton, Winston Churchill, are some great individuals, and there are many, many others on all sides.

Now on to the MS Gestapo line, I forgot that was up there actually. That was meant to poke fun at how out of control OD can get sometimes, and how heavy handed tactics are needed. I was going to use KGB, but since this is a Mercedes forum I thought the German equivalent would be better. I figured people would get the joke, guess not people take things very, very seriously around here it seems.

Please don't lecture me on such things, my family has been bleeding for this country since before it was a country. I am a big fan of world culture, and more so Japanese, Chinese, and European culture. I posted said pictures because that is what Google dragged up quickly, and to illustrate the point of my appreciation of various aspects of Japanese culture, art, and landscape. I suggest studying Japanese history a bit, it is extremely fascinating.

Ahh I can't win, whats up with everyone jumping down my throat and calling me a racist? Full moon or something?:confused:

Everyone? How did I get into that group?

I can't win, replace everyone with certian people.:D

Ding! Ding! Ding! Now we have a winner who was previously a whiner. :D

:twak: Bad Hatt.