Are you for or against unions?

[Hatterasguy]

This could turn into an interesting topic. Generally I dislike unions, I think their time has passed. 100 years ago they were needed, but not these days. Today they seem to be used by the workers to vote themselves ridiculous wages for the jobs they preform and cost the company a lot of money. Just look at GM and Ford. Then they scream when the company says screw this and goes to China.

In todays labor market where people change jobs so often, the market seems to set reasonable wages.

[Hammertime]

I agree with you n respect to once they were needed but now they seem to be hindering growth more than anything. Look at todays US auto mfr for example. I know it served a purpose in the past and in some fields today they still are needed to protect the workforce but overall it hurts more then helps.

My dad is in a union in NY for over 35 yrs so I did see first hand how it protected his workforce from exploitation but nowadays.....

[420SEL]

I don't so much have a problem with unions in theory as I do with their practical application. Many of them have turned into self-serving institutions that are more interested in keeping themselves as a going concern than they are with the benefits of their members.

[Hogweed]

i was watching the HBO special about addiction last night and there was an interesting piece about the steamfitters union. the steamfitters (among others) considered themselves to be pretty tough and drinking on the job was part of the status quo; they would cover for workers that were drunk on the job hence enabling some of their members to hide their addictions. now they are very proactive in helping their members obtain services to help treat their addictions.
unions remind me of the old practice of bringing in a foreign species to help eradicate an indigenous, nuisance species; as it often happens you just end up with another problem!

[kerry]

Workers of the world unite!
Unions will only become unnecessary if and when they supercede the power of capital.

[Sopal]

QUESTION ,,, are we ( you ) talking about skilled labor unions or unskilled labor unions ?

Yes there is a LARGE differance

[engatwork]

I work in a pretty strong union plant as a salaried individual so that keeps me from ever having to get my hands dirty. Out of a work force of about 450 people there are less than ten that I consider "radicals" that give the union a bad name. For the most part the majority of them are really good people that don't mind busting their butt to keep the equipment running.

I think there are some positive points with the union but feel that the union working man is getting a screwing by the "leaders" of the organization because some of those union dues are going to keep the Gulfstream jet in the air for the "leaders". I do not agree with this part of the union.

We just had our annual outage at the mill and there were approximately 1000 craftsmen in there every day - union and non-union. I hate to say it but it seems that the craftsmanship/skill of the mechanics that come in on these outages is declining severely.

I brought a group of Mexican painters in to do a bunch of painting and they worked circles around every other group that was on site performing work.

[KylePavao]

Maybe biased, but I am a member of the "unskilled" United Food and Commercial Workers union. This union represents workers from grocery stores around the US, as well as many foodservice workers. I work at Stop and Shop Supermarkets as a clerk in various departments. I like the idea of being in a Union; hard working people receive fair wages and healthcare benefits, and can afford to raise families. There are many people like this, including myself. On the other hand, it allows many "deadwood" type of workers to continue to receive a good wage and benefits, despite less than stellar performance. I like the idea of being in a union, but what I don't like is the fact that they are not more selective. Despite the "laziness" stereotypes, I know a lot of good men and women who work hard everyday as meatcutters, deli clerks, and cashiers who without the Union, would not be able to provide for their families. There are always two sides to an issue, but I suppose I am pro Union.

[AustinsCE]

I've never been much of a team player, so I don't like unions. To me it seems, for the most part, if you educate yourself and work hard, know what you do and do it well, you wont need someone slightly smarter and much better paid to be your voice to tell you when to strike and what is and isn't right for you. Not to mention, I got enough bosses and managers and supervisors as it is.

[Botnst]

Still necessary in some industries to protect unions from unscrupulous managers or owners would would make a dime rather than ensure worker safety. But a lot of the more "mature" unions (for lack of a better word) are freaking insane.

To me, a better way to influence a company would be through ESOP's, if available. Or get the union to buy a lot of stock in the union's name and distribute some proportion of the dividends to the workers. In that way the employee has a vested interest in profit and management knows that the union has voter leverage. I do not like unions represented on the board of directors. Not because of union influence but rather, I think there should be some natural antagonism between the union and managemnt, similar to the checks and balances of government.

I also would like to see tax structures changed to allow more creativity in incorporation. I believe the current models, good for the industrial revolution, may be passed their "must sell" date. I don't know enough about business to offer an example of what I mean. My argument comes from what I have seen in local government, public education, higher education, and so forth. What worked well before, in a largely agrarian culture with scattered small communities hardly exists anywhere. Yet we still have the institutions that evolved from that system.

Ya say you want a revolution
Well, you know
We'd all like to see the plan.

[pj67coll]

My gut reaction is that I have no tolerance for unions at all. But realistically it probably depends on the circumstances of the individual industry/organisation. Still. In manufacturing it's pretty damm obvious that those countries without unions (asia) are eclipsing those with unions so it seems pretty obvious that in that instance unions are a bad remmanent of an inefficient past.

- Peter.

[Hogweed]

Originally Posted by KylePavao

Maybe biased, but I am a member of the "unskilled" United Food and Commercial Workers union. This union represents workers from grocery stores around the US, as well as many foodservice workers. I work at Stop and Shop Supermarkets as a clerk in various departments. I like the idea of being in a Union; hard working people receive fair wages and healthcare benefits, and can afford to raise families. There are many people like this, including myself. On the other hand, it allows many "deadwood" type of workers to continue to receive a good wage and benefits, despite less than stellar performance. I like the idea of being in a union, but what I don't like is the fact that they are not more selective. Despite the "laziness" stereotypes, I know a lot of good men and women who work hard everyday as meatcutters, deli clerks, and cashiers who without the Union, would not be able to provide for their families. There are always two sides to an issue, but I suppose I am pro Union.

a friend of mine was an ufcw member and just was fired for 'job abandonment' for going home for lunch (third shift); of course he would drink and was often (read always) late for work. 24 years on the job and the union couldn't back him up anymore. i guess he would qualify as one of the more "deadwood" person of whom you speak, although he would defend his lackluster attitude and shoddy job performance as justified due to the company "screwing everyone"

[Palangi]

I like onions.... Especially Vidalias...

[t walgamuth]

i am pro union but not rabid.

i think b made some excellent points.

my wife is a teacher and belongs for over 30 years to the teachers union.

my father grandfather and uncle all worked at studebaker in south bend too.

unions are necessary where it is not easy for a worker to move on to another similar job. the best example is coal mines. folks live in the town which may have only mining as its main industry. in this case the mine owners can and did exploit the workers horribly. in this case it was/is nigh onto impossible for a person to get any other job and relocation was pretty impossible too.

a teacher is in a similar position in that in my wife's example, she has over 30 years in and if she left her present job she would not be able to get another job at all. the school corps would hire two young teachers in her place. due to the pay increments from thirty years on the job.

in lafayette we also have the caterpillar plant and the subaru plant which are both non union. folks there are kindof cocky...."why do we need a union? we are making $30/ hr and the managment treats us swell?". not realizing that if there were not a union plant in peoria illinois that the wages here would be less than half of what they are!

so yeah, unions are necessary in some cases.

in some cases though they have issues as noted in some posts above.

my dad was the steward for one year back at studies and resigned because he felt it was wrong to fight to get a man back on the job when he had been drinking on the job.

oh yeah and my other grandfather was the local president of the union at ball ban in south bend.

tom w

[aklim]

Depends. If I don't want to work and want somebody to cover my ass when I screw up, I would be union. Since I do want to go out on my own and be all that I can be, I guess I don't want to share and be part of the average group.

I will never work for a union shop