Banks are a financial business; They are not in the car business--except as it relates to money. As such they have to write the rules so that everybody in their organization knows how to make a loan. The Blue Books is the accepted standard.
Knowing this, gives older MB fans ( is that old people who are fans of MB, or people of any age who are fans of older MB?--I LOVE English !)
information to use to our advantage. Find a car you want, and then wait for it to drop out of the Blue Book--then buy with cash.

I do not believe there is a new car for under $20,000 that can touch the ride/ handling/ economy of my '82 300SD.

In my experience; an older car is not always the better choice for dependable transportation. It's not the major things like transmissions and engines that are the problems, anybody could stomach replacing those items. It's the little things
that wear out like window regulators and heater cables and hose leaks and cracked plastic and broken down upholstery and blower fans,...etc... these little things can drive you crazy trying to fix yourself and are quite expensive when taken to a mechanic. AND always seem to fail at the most inopportune times.

I like getting in my Miata, Camary or Maxima and have it start every time and everything work. I dont think twice about driving across country in one of these disposable boxes, but I would have anxiety attacks If I had to take my ancient 300sd on a long trip. If it broke down, I would be stuck for lack of readily available parts and any place to work on it; or be at the mercy of a shop that will just gouge the heck outta me. (And towing expenses and time lost) Seriously; I cant afford to have an old car break down unless i could just walk away from it.
Sorry but I'll just take my Japanese box; and throw it away when i am done.
The Mercedes will remain a good local hobbiest car.

I find this interesting.

I'm curious to know why the age of the 300SD leaves you with a sense of uncertainty about durability on the road? It's a very common feeling and it's the primary driver of why people dispose of old cars. In fact, if a vehicle breaks down..........once..........on the road, it's usually relegated to a sale in short order.

But, why shouldn't the 300SD be just as reliable as the Maxima? What could cause the 300SD to strand you? IMHO, the only possibilities are a belt, a starter, or a fuel filter.

To increase the durability of my SD, it has all new belts, a Bosch remanufactured starter, and I carry fuel filters as a routine replacement item.

Naturally, the preventative maintenance on all of these is significant if I want the reliability of the Maxima. But, I have no qualms of taking the SDL on a 500 mile trip at a moment's notice. The SD can't go on a 500 mile trip at the moment due to some issues on the front end that are not quite perfect.

Is there an increased risk of catastrophic failure as compared to the much newer Maxima.........of course..........but, IMHO, the risk is relatively low and it doesn't affect my expectations of the vehicle.

Agreed - risk of breakdown is inversely proportionate to the level of maintenance being performed. If an older vehicle is maintained properly, there's no reason that it can't approach the reliability of a much newer car, for a fraction of the cost. Yes, this costs money, sometimes lots of it. But the cost of proper maintenance on the older car is in most cases still way less than the expense of depreciation on a newer car. Most newer-car owners overlook depreciation when considering cost of operation, even though it is usually the most expensive component.

I'd have no problem driving my W126 anywhere. I have taken care of all the parts that are likely to fail and leave you stranded. Baring some unforseen failure, like the transmission suddenly failing, it should be as reliable as anything else.

Ditto - I would drive my '85 W126 cross country. It is dead reliable. Actually, I trust it more than my '97 W210.

I know this is an old thread but an interesting read. I think its interesting what "older Mercedes" means to different people. I own a 96 C280 with 208K miles on it, and I'm asking myself "Do I replace it, and if so what with?" I've driven a new C-class and I prefer my 1996 to the 2007 models. Plus, the 1996 sale price of $43K in 96 is higher then the sale price of some of the C class cars today. The quality just cant be the same 12 years later and lower sale price. Someone find me another C class with an inline 6!

An "older" Mercedes, is something built in the mid sixties, and earlier.

My 1983 300SD was the absolute lowest cost per mile car to drive, and the best car I've ever owned. I drove it to 305K miles, and 16- years of age. It still retained 41% of it's value on sale day. Damn fine car I had!:)

I sat down and figured out the total cost per mile of my '86 Lincoln right after I sold it. It was something like 9 or 11 cents per mile. My Benzes might be able to match that, but it will take many many more miles. Of course, with all I've done to them, both are worth more now than when I bought them.

To me, older Mercedes means W126, W123, or previous. W124's and W140's are "new" to me. I'm not sure about 201's.

I've found, over the years, that the more I spend on a car (and the newer it is at the time of purchase) the more I stand to lose on it if something really bad happens.

For instance, let's look at my 1996 Saab 9000CS. 140k. Paid $2900. Most fun-driving car I've ever had (I still have it, actually). Dual air bags, factory a$$-kicking sound system, everything a new car costing 20k has. The only problem it's had were some failing o-rings in the tranny (which were a BEAR to find and fix, but ended up costing me just a little, with a mechanic doing the work). Got hit by a deer a little over a month ago. Progressive gave me $3500, and I still have the car (Progressive was gonna have a new hood shipped from Sweden - no kidding). We'll fix it for just over a grand, and I used the money to buy my 300SE. YAY!

By contrast, let's look at my buddy. He recently bought a new Mustang. It's very nice. His payments this year will be more than I spend working on my Benz, barring something "big" failing. I paid less than $3k for my Benz, and it turns heads. If I just get out along the road and walk away, I lose $3k. He lost more than that driving off the lot, and it really doesn't stand out (and I'm saying this as somebody who digs a cool 'stang- his is white, and the base/V6 model). I'd say he's had it about a year, and I'd say it's been in the shop twice. Granted, both those shop trips were covered by the warranty, but then again he spends more for his car payment than I could ever imagine paying my indie Benz mechanic.

Yet, every time we talk about it, he acts like I'm crazy for not driving a newer car with a factory warranty. I'll never, ever understand his reasoning. I have more fun for far less money, and equal reliability. Plus, I don't have a car payment and the baggage that comes with it.

Now, I'm not saying people who want a new car, or who want a car that requires a payment, are insane; you do what you want to do, and you spend whatever it's worth to you (and whatever you can afford) to get what you want. That's cool, it's none of my business and no skin off my back. I just can't ever understand how the folks who are, by choice, losing tons more than I could ever possibly lose pretend that it's *me* who is doing the crazy thing....

+1


Our local credit union is giving my girlfriend problems. She found this mint 1976 300d that HAS to be hers. She asked for a car loan, and they simply said to "find a newer car"

She had to get a personal, un-secured loan with a LOT higher interest rate AND have her mother co-sign. And now the Insurance company's giving her problems - they have to inspect the car in person to see if it's in a good enough condition to even offer insurance on.


No logic whatsoever. This car's 30 years ahead of it's time for christs sake!

Hmm
 

I don't know what some people are talking about...

I've driven my 76 300D, as a daily driver, for 3 years, at college, without a major issue. Sure a little rust on the rear quarterpanels, but I mean mechanically it has been 100% sound. Any no start issues were the fault of gelled fuel, and I have driven this car to Albany on many occassions. I honestly felt less comfortable driving my 93 Subaru rattlebox.

Belts, coolant, oil, fuel filters. Thats all I carry in my trunk. Thats basically all the car needs. The starter is a rebuilt Bosch, glowplugs are new, and the car still runs great after carting around my drunken friends and I for three years in...wait for it...a classy ride. I've had people at gas stations offer me 10x what I paid for the car. Find that in a beat up old Camry!

These cars are great. Classy, reliable, DIY friendly, and completely overengineered.

I'll paint it this way: (bear in mind that I miss my 240D a lot now that its gone). Let me know if I'm not making an apples to apples comparison.

I have a wife, a 2yr old and a 6 day old so we need a van, minivan or full size wagon. We go on car trips camping so no small car will do (the 240D was almost not big enough)

I have 2 options for a "family" car -

Find a 1983-1985 300TD, a good example will run me $4k to 5K if I spend minimal time looking, or an '87TD, that, if God smiles on me, costs the same or less than the other option.

or

Go to the local subie dealership, and drop $9k on an 2001 Outback wagon. Also requires minimal time spent combing cars.com etc...they have 2 of them fors sale right now.


Outback has dual airbags, not-1st-gen ABS, awd, "LATCH" system, starts easily in 0*F weather. LATCH system is worth hours right there (those with car seats know)

Our payments are $200-something on the Outback. No signature loan jacked-up interest required.
Payments for 3 years on the TD would be in the $70 to $80 range. Both cars would need "full coverage" insurance. (can't be without a car to haul kids)

Fuel economy is the same, assume that gas and diesel cost the same per gallon (here in Cinti, petrol is cheaper). Acceleration is probably close (4cyl outback vs. 300TD w/ turbo). Tires should be about the same. subie 4 cyl holds wayyy less oil per oil change.

6m of maintenance on the 300D - oil change or 2, adjust valves, maintain 20 -year old wires and vacuum lines, maybe fuel fiilters. Wife must find diesel stations. In-laws must be taught how to start it- in case we need to borrow their minivan... Remember - diesel in a gas car just smokes and quits, gas in diesel cars destroy the engine more often than not. A chance I'd take driving the TD.

6m of maintenance on the outback - oil change or 2, 8 year old wires, no vacuum lines ("but what if I leave my purse in the car, the locks have to work").

Longer term - yes, the outback has lots of differentials, but the TD has SLS (I'd toss it out), no LATCH, ABS if I'm lucky, no airbags, no factory 6disk (ie - one more evening and $200 that I can spend with my kids instead of installing a CD changer in it b/c of MB's gacked up speaker-fader-potentiometer-wiring. Both have power windows and locks and a sunroof (moonroof in the subie).

I'll gladly pay the extra $150/m for a car that the wife can drive that I dont have to worry about algae in the tank. for me, that $150/m is time spent with my family, not time spent in the garage tightening the power steering box. No, my sons are not old enough to spend "quality time teaching them how to work on cars" Perhaps in a few years =)

the car came (used) with a 1 year warranty from the dealer we purchased from. Is that iron-clad ? no, but imho better than the "as-is" that I'd get with a $4000 TD.

Lastly, you wont convince me that a 198x 300TD is "cleaner" than a 01 OBDII motor. Who was saying that diesel smoke is more harmful to lungs than gasoline exhaust ? Any car that runs in my driveway runs near them. I could assume that the wind would carry away any NOx's that my 240D made before I drove off, but if that really happened, we wouldnt have the emissions controls we do now. Its not fair to compare 1985 technology to 2001, but, remember I am comparing tools that perform a function, not engineering prowess. I could have compared the 01 obw to a 1985 280TE (more closely matched power wise, but, the entry price for the TE would be higher.

For me, the time spent and money saved maintaining a W123 or W126 is not worth the time it would take me away from my family. If you have 2 cars, then you'd need to add the cost/maintenance of both cars if you are trying to compare your W126 to a "new" car (becuase if your W123 breaks, you still have a "rattlebox subaru" to drive- remember- we are comparing tools that accomplish a purpose and cost, not the joy of driving). I have no problem with people paying more to enjoy driving, I wish I could afford more of it myself.

I dont want go bust on your guys, so tell me - what I am doing wrong ? where is my logic faulted ?

-John

Your logic is sound. Everything has an oppertunity cost.

You only get 24 hours in the day, do you want to spend time working on an old car or doing other things? You can always make more money, but you cannot get more time.


As soon as driving an old MB goes from a fun hobby to a chore, then its time to get something newer.