People and car tastes...my rant
 

So, I witnessed the bidding of a couople of different cars today at an acution. There was a 1991 Volvo 740 turbo wagon, with under 200k that there was not much a bid beyond $500. There was also a 1992 BMW 325 auto that was beat to the abosolute brink of basically being a parts car with no good parts that sold for $1700.

This really got me to thinking. I have a six series that I put up for sale because I really don't drive it a great deal, and so I put it on the market for $5,000 to see If I could sell it. I was not willing to take less then that for it and I did not care if the car sold or not. I did not get a single call on it though which was a complete surprise. I notice the same things with benz, the bigger models sit and sit on lots for sale and never move. They are not that hard to work on compared to a lot of other stuff and too me the driving experice of the big benz or Big bimmer or even the Volvo 740 wagon is far greater then these economy cars that people are buying.

My unlce had a very nice 300TE that he dumped becasue it needed transmission work. The car had 160K the previous owner had the heads redone the body and interior were fantastic and he dumped it because he did not want to spend "$3,000 to fix an old mercedes" He repalced it with a few year old small mazda. Again this does not make sense to me, he could have written the $3,000 check had a mercedes with a new transmission and also had a car that was payed for. Instead he spend $15,000 on a car that is newer yes, but has seats, safty features, body quality and comfort that do not meet the standard of the Mercedes Benz that he traded for.

Also reminds me of another friend that I have who is into Volvos...(the old Rear wheel drive models) (before ford took over) She had a 91 940 se with a lot of miles and a few door dings she decided she wanted to find a nicer version of the same car maybe a coulple years newer. She found one with half the miles that hers had that was a one owner. The guy wanted $5,000 for it a 1994 Volvo 940 Turbo sedan. She went to the bank and the bank told her, "sorry, we do not loan on vehicles seven years old and older" I told her to go to a credit union and she found sucess. I found that very funny. The same bank without a thought will loan a 18 year old kid $12,000 to go out and buy a brand new dodge neon that will depreciate as soon as he drives it off the lot and will continue to deteriate and likely be work out at 25,000 m iles per year after four years and he still has another three years to pay for it! 3

Maybe I'm set in my ways, but I'm not seeing the logic in peoples choices.

I am with you all the way on this. We had a 1991 Volvo 740 that I was unsuccessfully able to persuade the principal driver to keep in the family, after it had served us faithfully for many years. It was replaced by a new Honda Accord a few years ago. the Volvo was reported to have some engine and transmission problems that I think could have been fixed, it was way less than 200k on it, and looked very sharp as it was well kept up with all books and records from mile zero and had a set of sharp Borbet type E rims on it .

I mourned the loss of the Volvo when it went onto the flatbed to be hauled off to be donated away to the charity, that foggy and cold SF morning. Losing Volvito was like losing an old friend. I got a call from the new owner who had bought it at the charity auction in Benicia, a month or so later, and so far as I know it is still on the road.

Many years ago I tried to buy my first Mercedes, a 300Diesel, but the credit union similarly denied the loan because the car has slid out the bottom of the blue book. I had to buy an Oldsmobile Delta 88 instead to get a car loan.

That Oldsmobile was literally put into the junkyard many, many years ago, but I am sure the Mercedes Diesel would still be running if I got it. Heck it probably is, but with someone else.

Yet another time the credit union wouln't do a car loan for me for a Caddillac Coupe de Ville, because it too, was just out of the Kelly Blue Book and I wanted the car bad enough I had to buy it with a personal line of credt/signature loan, which had a much higher interest rate than a car loan, because it was unsecured.

As long as you can find it in the Kelley Blue Book, the banks and credit unions will make car loans, even on such trash as a Chevy Aveo or a Kia Rio.

The inherent worth or value of the car means nothing.

I agree. People will do what the media tells them to do.

I make my family laugh. While out and about I'll see a young fellow with a new Cadillac or Lincoln. I'll snicker and say, "poor bastard, he has money but no taste"

Turn lemons into lemonade and add vodka.

Jim B, you are right and ever so much more so. Fortunately I haven't had to borrow to buy my last few cars.

I have used Kelly, Edmunds and banks much to my advantage when buying old cars. My Toyota MR2 has a retail blue book price of around $1800. I told the dealer I'd pay $200 over blue book for it. For $2000, I got a near show car. On eBay, beater MR2's go for $2000. Really nice ones go for $5000+. I don't know where Kelley and Edmunds get their prices.

Look up the retail price on a mint 1983 300SD on Edmunds. $2500 for a perfect car with 90,000 miles, at least in my zip code. Even in Portland, the home of high priced 300SD's, Edmunds says you can find an outstanding 90,000 mile car for $2800.

Use the blue book to buy. Forget it if you want to borrow.

The prevailing mindset of many Americans is that cars are disposable and you just replace them every 3-5 years. Which is part of the reason leases are so popular (and why new cars are only designed with that first 5-10 years in mind). Plus DIYers are few and far between.

That's fine with me, I'm perfectly willing to buy a 3-5 year old car after that first initial chunk of depreciation.

Although I do have to admit that I've sold a few cars prematurely when faced with a good sized repair bill. I tend to get bored with whatever I'm driving after a while, but I do usually put a 100K+ on one before I move onto the next one.

I couldn't agree more. In fact just the past few days here around work I have basically given myself an ulcer with all the arguing going on at work.
All my co-workers are telling me to get rid of my car and buy a new one cause I am having to put a few things here and there on it and it's "not worth it". I was like why should I not spend say 3000 dollars to get my car up to par, and be "throwing my money away?" Instead they think I should buy a new 20,000 dollar car.

You know where they are coming from, strapped to their car payments: Misery loves company.

People sometimes couldn't understand why I was proud of my 300E and why I kept it so long. They'd say "that car is ancient, things like the A/C don't work...why not get a new one?"

I had to explain that it drove like very few other cars did. Such a great combo of luxury, safety, solidity and handling. That the roof raises up to a full 90o to work on the engine, that the same engine had over 300,000Km on it, all with original parts. That I could change the brakes in 10 minutes a side. That I OWNED IT. No payments. Mine. Every Km I drove her was more value for money. Yes, a few things started to go - sunroof lifter broke, AC evap went, but I consider these minor things in return for the package as a whole and what I paid for it.

Sooner or later I will get a newer car, not new though. I just don't get excited about the cars today, except for the ones I can't afford. I would love a newer s-class, but It's just above my budget for now. Actually it's a lot above my budget.

Everyone likes new because they think its better. I like not having car payments.:D

I agree with all points.

However, I truly believe that the W124 is probably the last DIY car I'll ever own. I suspect when the W208 gets long on the tooth, I'll have to dump it as well. Far too complicated to work on without some serious diagnostic tools.

I leased the W164 simply because I needed something reliable and fresh for long trips. The technology on these new models is something I would rather not EVER venture into in the comfort of my garage. So before it has a chance to burp (and require a $3500 repair), I'm getting out from underneath it.

I would like to enjoy no car payments at all, but the reality is, I don't have time to continuously spend time in the garage tweaking this and that. My daughter's massively bloated schedule allows little time for that. And I'm not a Walton or Gates, so the prospect of plunking down cash for a new offering is out of the question.

G-trust me, I can relate! It's getting easier for me to assign dollar values (relating to auto repairs) to my time. So far, only 2 kids are old enough to require us to drive all over the state. It's only a matter of time before the other two join them. I'm far from a mechanic but I enjoy tinkering with all of my cars. However if it's not a project I can get done in a half-day on the weekend it's gotta go to the mechanic.

But all you need to do is look at the lines at the quickie lube places to see how little most people will do. And I'll admit to having to resort to using my local mechanic for a simple oil change on occasion ;)

I completely agree with the sentiments in the original post. I've even been in almost the exact same situation with both banks and credit unions re trying to buy an old Caddy DeVille and old Mercedes. No problem financing some brand new piece of crap like my 02 Rio, but forget a decent car that I'd be far more easily able to make the payments on like a good old Caddy or Mercedes for just a couple of g's. Makes you wonder if a bank or credit union is actually worth a damm.

- Peter.

I think a lot of the "problem" is perceived (read false) economy. People would rather buy a new $13,000 "car" that gets 30 mpg instead of an older Benz for $4000 that gets 20 mpg. They are saving gas but not money. At 2000 miles per month and $3 gas they are saving $100 per month. There's a 90 month break even point there on the initial cost alone! That doesn't include interest on the loan, insurance, depreciation or the unquantifiable things like safety and comfort. Also, for $13K you are getting manufactured obsolescence that will probably never see 90 months of use.
In short, I'm with you.

Banks are a financial business; They are not in the car business--except as it relates to money. As such they have to write the rules so that everybody in their organization knows how to make a loan. The Blue Books is the accepted standard.
Knowing this, gives older MB fans ( is that old people who are fans of MB, or people of any age who are fans of older MB?--I LOVE English !)
information to use to our advantage. Find a car you want, and then wait for it to drop out of the Blue Book--then buy with cash.

I do not believe there is a new car for under $20,000 that can touch the ride/ handling/ economy of my '82 300SD.

In my experience; an older car is not always the better choice for dependable transportation. It's not the major things like transmissions and engines that are the problems, anybody could stomach replacing those items. It's the little things
that wear out like window regulators and heater cables and hose leaks and cracked plastic and broken down upholstery and blower fans,...etc... these little things can drive you crazy trying to fix yourself and are quite expensive when taken to a mechanic. AND always seem to fail at the most inopportune times.

I like getting in my Miata, Camary or Maxima and have it start every time and everything work. I dont think twice about driving across country in one of these disposable boxes, but I would have anxiety attacks If I had to take my ancient 300sd on a long trip. If it broke down, I would be stuck for lack of readily available parts and any place to work on it; or be at the mercy of a shop that will just gouge the heck outta me. (And towing expenses and time lost) Seriously; I cant afford to have an old car break down unless i could just walk away from it.
Sorry but I'll just take my Japanese box; and throw it away when i am done.
The Mercedes will remain a good local hobbiest car.

I find this interesting.

I'm curious to know why the age of the 300SD leaves you with a sense of uncertainty about durability on the road? It's a very common feeling and it's the primary driver of why people dispose of old cars. In fact, if a vehicle breaks down..........once..........on the road, it's usually relegated to a sale in short order.

But, why shouldn't the 300SD be just as reliable as the Maxima? What could cause the 300SD to strand you? IMHO, the only possibilities are a belt, a starter, or a fuel filter.

To increase the durability of my SD, it has all new belts, a Bosch remanufactured starter, and I carry fuel filters as a routine replacement item.

Naturally, the preventative maintenance on all of these is significant if I want the reliability of the Maxima. But, I have no qualms of taking the SDL on a 500 mile trip at a moment's notice. The SD can't go on a 500 mile trip at the moment due to some issues on the front end that are not quite perfect.

Is there an increased risk of catastrophic failure as compared to the much newer Maxima.........of course..........but, IMHO, the risk is relatively low and it doesn't affect my expectations of the vehicle.

Agreed - risk of breakdown is inversely proportionate to the level of maintenance being performed. If an older vehicle is maintained properly, there's no reason that it can't approach the reliability of a much newer car, for a fraction of the cost. Yes, this costs money, sometimes lots of it. But the cost of proper maintenance on the older car is in most cases still way less than the expense of depreciation on a newer car. Most newer-car owners overlook depreciation when considering cost of operation, even though it is usually the most expensive component.

I'd have no problem driving my W126 anywhere. I have taken care of all the parts that are likely to fail and leave you stranded. Baring some unforseen failure, like the transmission suddenly failing, it should be as reliable as anything else.

Ditto - I would drive my '85 W126 cross country. It is dead reliable. Actually, I trust it more than my '97 W210.

I know this is an old thread but an interesting read. I think its interesting what "older Mercedes" means to different people. I own a 96 C280 with 208K miles on it, and I'm asking myself "Do I replace it, and if so what with?" I've driven a new C-class and I prefer my 1996 to the 2007 models. Plus, the 1996 sale price of $43K in 96 is higher then the sale price of some of the C class cars today. The quality just cant be the same 12 years later and lower sale price. Someone find me another C class with an inline 6!

An "older" Mercedes, is something built in the mid sixties, and earlier.

My 1983 300SD was the absolute lowest cost per mile car to drive, and the best car I've ever owned. I drove it to 305K miles, and 16- years of age. It still retained 41% of it's value on sale day. Damn fine car I had!:)

I sat down and figured out the total cost per mile of my '86 Lincoln right after I sold it. It was something like 9 or 11 cents per mile. My Benzes might be able to match that, but it will take many many more miles. Of course, with all I've done to them, both are worth more now than when I bought them.

To me, older Mercedes means W126, W123, or previous. W124's and W140's are "new" to me. I'm not sure about 201's.

I've found, over the years, that the more I spend on a car (and the newer it is at the time of purchase) the more I stand to lose on it if something really bad happens.

For instance, let's look at my 1996 Saab 9000CS. 140k. Paid $2900. Most fun-driving car I've ever had (I still have it, actually). Dual air bags, factory a$$-kicking sound system, everything a new car costing 20k has. The only problem it's had were some failing o-rings in the tranny (which were a BEAR to find and fix, but ended up costing me just a little, with a mechanic doing the work). Got hit by a deer a little over a month ago. Progressive gave me $3500, and I still have the car (Progressive was gonna have a new hood shipped from Sweden - no kidding). We'll fix it for just over a grand, and I used the money to buy my 300SE. YAY!

By contrast, let's look at my buddy. He recently bought a new Mustang. It's very nice. His payments this year will be more than I spend working on my Benz, barring something "big" failing. I paid less than $3k for my Benz, and it turns heads. If I just get out along the road and walk away, I lose $3k. He lost more than that driving off the lot, and it really doesn't stand out (and I'm saying this as somebody who digs a cool 'stang- his is white, and the base/V6 model). I'd say he's had it about a year, and I'd say it's been in the shop twice. Granted, both those shop trips were covered by the warranty, but then again he spends more for his car payment than I could ever imagine paying my indie Benz mechanic.

Yet, every time we talk about it, he acts like I'm crazy for not driving a newer car with a factory warranty. I'll never, ever understand his reasoning. I have more fun for far less money, and equal reliability. Plus, I don't have a car payment and the baggage that comes with it.

Now, I'm not saying people who want a new car, or who want a car that requires a payment, are insane; you do what you want to do, and you spend whatever it's worth to you (and whatever you can afford) to get what you want. That's cool, it's none of my business and no skin off my back. I just can't ever understand how the folks who are, by choice, losing tons more than I could ever possibly lose pretend that it's *me* who is doing the crazy thing....

+1


Our local credit union is giving my girlfriend problems. She found this mint 1976 300d that HAS to be hers. She asked for a car loan, and they simply said to "find a newer car"

She had to get a personal, un-secured loan with a LOT higher interest rate AND have her mother co-sign. And now the Insurance company's giving her problems - they have to inspect the car in person to see if it's in a good enough condition to even offer insurance on.


No logic whatsoever. This car's 30 years ahead of it's time for christs sake!

Hmm
 

I don't know what some people are talking about...

I've driven my 76 300D, as a daily driver, for 3 years, at college, without a major issue. Sure a little rust on the rear quarterpanels, but I mean mechanically it has been 100% sound. Any no start issues were the fault of gelled fuel, and I have driven this car to Albany on many occassions. I honestly felt less comfortable driving my 93 Subaru rattlebox.

Belts, coolant, oil, fuel filters. Thats all I carry in my trunk. Thats basically all the car needs. The starter is a rebuilt Bosch, glowplugs are new, and the car still runs great after carting around my drunken friends and I for three years in...wait for it...a classy ride. I've had people at gas stations offer me 10x what I paid for the car. Find that in a beat up old Camry!

These cars are great. Classy, reliable, DIY friendly, and completely overengineered.

I'll paint it this way: (bear in mind that I miss my 240D a lot now that its gone). Let me know if I'm not making an apples to apples comparison.

I have a wife, a 2yr old and a 6 day old so we need a van, minivan or full size wagon. We go on car trips camping so no small car will do (the 240D was almost not big enough)

I have 2 options for a "family" car -

Find a 1983-1985 300TD, a good example will run me $4k to 5K if I spend minimal time looking, or an '87TD, that, if God smiles on me, costs the same or less than the other option.

or

Go to the local subie dealership, and drop $9k on an 2001 Outback wagon. Also requires minimal time spent combing cars.com etc...they have 2 of them fors sale right now.


Outback has dual airbags, not-1st-gen ABS, awd, "LATCH" system, starts easily in 0*F weather. LATCH system is worth hours right there (those with car seats know)

Our payments are $200-something on the Outback. No signature loan jacked-up interest required.
Payments for 3 years on the TD would be in the $70 to $80 range. Both cars would need "full coverage" insurance. (can't be without a car to haul kids)

Fuel economy is the same, assume that gas and diesel cost the same per gallon (here in Cinti, petrol is cheaper). Acceleration is probably close (4cyl outback vs. 300TD w/ turbo). Tires should be about the same. subie 4 cyl holds wayyy less oil per oil change.

6m of maintenance on the 300D - oil change or 2, adjust valves, maintain 20 -year old wires and vacuum lines, maybe fuel fiilters. Wife must find diesel stations. In-laws must be taught how to start it- in case we need to borrow their minivan... Remember - diesel in a gas car just smokes and quits, gas in diesel cars destroy the engine more often than not. A chance I'd take driving the TD.

6m of maintenance on the outback - oil change or 2, 8 year old wires, no vacuum lines ("but what if I leave my purse in the car, the locks have to work").

Longer term - yes, the outback has lots of differentials, but the TD has SLS (I'd toss it out), no LATCH, ABS if I'm lucky, no airbags, no factory 6disk (ie - one more evening and $200 that I can spend with my kids instead of installing a CD changer in it b/c of MB's gacked up speaker-fader-potentiometer-wiring. Both have power windows and locks and a sunroof (moonroof in the subie).

I'll gladly pay the extra $150/m for a car that the wife can drive that I dont have to worry about algae in the tank. for me, that $150/m is time spent with my family, not time spent in the garage tightening the power steering box. No, my sons are not old enough to spend "quality time teaching them how to work on cars" Perhaps in a few years =)

the car came (used) with a 1 year warranty from the dealer we purchased from. Is that iron-clad ? no, but imho better than the "as-is" that I'd get with a $4000 TD.

Lastly, you wont convince me that a 198x 300TD is "cleaner" than a 01 OBDII motor. Who was saying that diesel smoke is more harmful to lungs than gasoline exhaust ? Any car that runs in my driveway runs near them. I could assume that the wind would carry away any NOx's that my 240D made before I drove off, but if that really happened, we wouldnt have the emissions controls we do now. Its not fair to compare 1985 technology to 2001, but, remember I am comparing tools that perform a function, not engineering prowess. I could have compared the 01 obw to a 1985 280TE (more closely matched power wise, but, the entry price for the TE would be higher.

For me, the time spent and money saved maintaining a W123 or W126 is not worth the time it would take me away from my family. If you have 2 cars, then you'd need to add the cost/maintenance of both cars if you are trying to compare your W126 to a "new" car (becuase if your W123 breaks, you still have a "rattlebox subaru" to drive- remember- we are comparing tools that accomplish a purpose and cost, not the joy of driving). I have no problem with people paying more to enjoy driving, I wish I could afford more of it myself.

I dont want go bust on your guys, so tell me - what I am doing wrong ? where is my logic faulted ?

-John

Your logic is sound. Everything has an oppertunity cost.

You only get 24 hours in the day, do you want to spend time working on an old car or doing other things? You can always make more money, but you cannot get more time.


As soon as driving an old MB goes from a fun hobby to a chore, then its time to get something newer.

I would say the failure in logic would be in trying to finance :eek: a 30+ year-old car. :eek::eek: Why would she want to do that? No lending institution is going to write a loan on a car that old, no way, no how.

I would not finance a 5 year-old car, let alone one that is more than six times as old!

That sums it up right there. I'm on the fence about if its become a chore for me. I'm certainly overwhelmed with 3 cars! Whenever the CDI's get down to 20k I'm probably buying one. :cool:

Hattie, you hit it on the head right there.
My 02 Corvette with 29k miles on it left me stranded 3 hours from home, my 300D's with over 200k have never done that.

I think unless your uncle's MB was running on Waste veggie oil or biodiesel and had his driver seat replaced with different design(like newer 2000's MB or Acura), he did make a good decision- if that MB is 80's model. The biggest flaw I see in 80's MB is the seat design.
I'm new to MB(about a year). I have 82 300sd tubo n 84 300d turbo. Both came with bad bad designed driver seat(2nd worst, 90's Chevy Malibu is #1). The seat is tilted way too much and the back support has a curvy shape. This shape makes your butt sink and as a result, your back is curved and your head is forwarded in order to balance your body to compensate the movement. Spending too much time in this original seat, one'll develop a forward head syndrome(night mare). I did modify the bottom, still the back support's left to finish. I'll share with you guys about it later. I noticed that people that drive 80's MB, they drive w/ their head forwarded and their upper back, neck and, head unsupported. If u r a chiropractor, u will sell the car right away because of its really bad posture.

So, those million dollar collector cars are bought with cash?

$5k is penny's. They only ask for bluebook value when putting the car down on a loan.



no point in new cars. All they do is depreciate. Where do you think these fancey new cars will be in 30 years? - yeah, thought so...

Huh? The seats were adjustable for fore and aft movement, seat bottom tilt, and back tilt. I have mine set up with the seat bottom just about level and the seat backs pretty close to straight up and down. I've driven my 300D for ten hours at a stretch and never experienced any spinal discomfort as a result. I've done the same in similar vintage Cadillacs and a Lincoln and was not so fortunate.

But now that I think about it, I think the '90 International Paystar I used to drive probably had the best/most comfortable driving position out of anything I've driven extensively. The big steering wheel did sometimes interfere with my ammo pouches though.

Try using the adjusting wheel. Its tucked away on the left side. Much nicer than the stupid ratcheting style that most cars use nowadays.

This is a joke right?

- Peter.

All that means is that you need to work faster! :D :D ;)

Ours have been very low maintenance lately....we had to take our 300D offline because the alternator bearings decided to suddenly go bad....new unit will come Wednesday, I'll quick put it on, install some new light bulbs in the dash (CCU/spider are all out), stick the wood back on and it will be ready for many more miles! Nothing else is wrong with it at all.

All it has needed in 1.5 years of ownership: glow plug kit, fluid changes, tires, starter, alternator, a used oil cooler (old one leaked).....monovalve diaphragm.....and thats about it. In 1.5 years. Car was $1500....and maybe $1000 in repairs (including tires) so far.....2500, over 16 months....$156 a month + fuel....and insurance....which is about $220 a year. Amazingly cheap. Lets see a new car match that, with the same safety/quality/class.

My car on the other hand is more like yours....I spend on it with no intention or hope to ever recoup that money. :D :D ;) I simply want to keep it nice, don't care what it costs. :eek: :D

I do far more work on my car than I technically "have to"....mainly because I want to keep it as nice as possible. I have several rust repairs to do....might replace my damaged (dented) rear door this summer....etc. Mechanically there's not really anything wrong....aside from the need for a suspension do-over....but it drives fine/doesn't wear the tires and handles well....so I am not concerned with that for now. Insurance is cheap, fuel costs are relatively low.....I haven't had to actually repair anything due to breaking since my alternator last June....which I knew was failing for many months. Everything else at this point mechanically....is new....there's literally nothing that still needs replacing! :D

80's MB seats
 

First of all, assuming that we r talking about a good firm seat. All the height adjustment equipped in these MB can only raise/lower the seat's height relative to steering wheel and your sight, it doesn't change the angle of the seat at all.
May be I'm more sensitive than most people because of my back problem. Driving this car has made my back much worse. Anyway, when I compared them against a few good seats ie, 2004 Honda Odyssey(the best), 2003 MB C230, 93 Acura Vigor, and 95 Land Rover(excellent seat, but bad head rest that push your head down), 80's MB seats are baddddd.

What angle are you talking about? Every car I've ever been in you can adjust the seatback angle, except old cars with bench seats. I agree the W123 seats arent very good because they lack lower back support. But to compensate for that I crank the seatback forward more, works ok.

Noooo not where your back leans against(that's is bad too), it's where your butt sit on. For the best posture the surface of this part must be flat and horizontal like most trucks, vans, and chairs u have @ home so u can sit with your back straight, but it's not possible for normal cars due to(I think) limited height of the roof, not enough clearance under the steering wheel, a need to sit with our feet resting mostly on heels, and some other factors I couldn't think of.
Therefore, it has to be slightly tilted so u can sit with your feet resting on your heels and at the same time can drive n do those legs movement, braking n accelerating, comfortably and with convenience. But for 80's MB, this tilted way too much.

To see this problem, try sitting on a regular chair(not a stool) that has a height that will make your upper leg/thigh parallel to the floor(and your feet still completely rest on the floor). U'll need to lean your back so it has to have to whole back support part. Now put something 1 to 2 inches high under upper legs/thigh area and position your heels where the brake should be(with something to rest on under your heels and toes against something like a wall). Now see how u feel....a good driver seat is approximately about that. Then try putting something 2 inches higher underboth upper leg/thigh area...that's similar to 80's MB seat.( If that's too much work, for quick n easy one, just lift your knees up so that the space under your upper legs/thigh area is at the heights mentioned above.)

Now let's resemble the back support part of the seat for 80's MB. This one is easy. Try putting a rolled up towel (about 4 inches in diameter) right behind your butt(not under) with the approximately 4-inches thing still under your upper legs/thigh....now u r approximately sitting on the 80's MB seat.

To look straight, your upper back and neck muscle will have to work much harder in that position. The only safe thing (that won't develop back problem) u can do for sitting like this is to tilt your head looking up at the ceiling, but u can't drive like that.

I wish it's easy fix by just putting a lower back support available in the back stores. However, it's tricky when your knees is much higher than your butt (as in this case). When u put a lower back support, your your upper back curves even more to compensate the movement.

So the solution is flatten all the surface so the butt won't sink and back won't curve.

Peter, seriously.....no joke.
Because losing your back is not just a nightmare, it's yearsmare:eek:, u'll be more happy taking a bus than having unfixable back problem.
So the choices r redesign the seat or sell the car.
I chose the 1st one cause still wanna convert it 2 biodiesel. Ok got to go 2 bed now, I'll share about my simple modification later.

That's why I bought a 'new' 300SDL to replace the 300SD:D

I'm trying to be without car payments, but my darling wife just won't be seen in an older car so unless I hit the lotto, I'm stuck with at least one payment for the forseeable future. If you really want reliable, cheap transportation and are willing/able to tinker with it now and then, BMW E28's are amazing, especially the 528e. The E28 is nowhere near as well engineered as an MB from that era, but the silly things just run and run and run. Mine get 28 MPG in the mix of driving I do, the oil filter is easy to get to from above, 14 inch tires are cheap too.

I've always enjoyed my MB's but these mid-size BMW's are dead simple to work on and parts are relatively cheap as well. I have neighbors who lease Escalades and Range Rovers and it just makes me cringe. These are the same people who built huge McMansions and can't afford to go out to dinner on Sat evening anymore because their mortgage shot up and gas for the SUV is too expensive. We hop in our old square BMW that is paid for, and pay cash for a nice meal, and everything is right with the world!

My $.02, for what it's worth. I LOVE finding a nice used Mercedes in need of a little TLC, picking it up cheap, and poking around under the hood to make it right. The feeling of saving myself hundreds (if not thousands) of dollars by making repairs on my own (with the help of excellent sources like this one) is incomparable. My friends are always amazed that I have such "nice" cars in my driveway given my income :grin:

That said, when it comes time to buy my wife's next car, we will be looking at newer, lower mileage cars. Why? Because if the fuel pump gets quirky in the 260E I am monkeying with right now, I know I can get out, tap it, and get back on the road probably. If my wife is driving, however, she does NOT know how to do that (nor do i expect her to learn). Furthermore, we're looking to start a family soon, and I would not sleep at night knowing she might be driving pregnant, or with a baby in a car seat, in a car that might need a little fiddling with here and there. I am happy to drive those kinds of cars, however.

I am in the National Guard, and when I leave for a weekend, or for a few weeks at a time, my wife often drives 4+ hours to see her folks. I would not feel comfortable being half a world away (quite literally some times) and knowing that she's on the road in one of my old cars. Does that make sense? She loves Mercedes, and adores my dad's 98 C240. Maybe we'll look for a low-mileage c-class and get her in one of those. They are safe, and my dad's has been dead-reliable. We won't be buying a BRAND new car, but something under 100K and less than 10 years old (or so) would be great peace-of-mind.

I would assume so, unless they take out a note on some property or their business and do it that way.

I can absolutely relate (well hopefully for us not pregnant again) and for that very reason I will probably be "stuck" with one late model vehicle in the driveway at all times despite my desire to divest of them completely for the sole purpose of reducing my property tax bills. If I clog a filter or throw a belt I have no problem tinkering around with it on the side of the road. I don't want to have to worry about her and the kids while I'm off on business somewhere. In my ideal world she'd be driving an '85 or '87 TD w/a third seat. She likes old wagons as long as they have functioning AC but the mid-80's aren't old enough for her, they're a couple/three decades too new. I just want the piece of mind a newer car provides for her and the young 'uns.

What's the one thing you hear from folks when you're stopped and putting fuel in your Benz?

"Nice car!"

"Why are you driving that around? It's too nice to be out here with us nuts!"

People will walk up to a perfect stranger and COMPLIMENT them on their ride...that's a GOOD feeling...(We all take care of our MBs, don't we?)

Nobody compliments a K-Car, or a Ricer or some other piece of sheet-metal crap...

Folks do recognize quality and those that appreciate quality...and the care needed to keep it that way.

Now, as for what the banks and CCs want? They want quick, throw-away assets so you come back for more and more and more loans...they don't make money off you if you're not buying a POS every two-four years, right?

So, save the money you'd be spending on car payments, then when the time comes to FINALLY trade in/up, you'll have the cash for the 5yo ride you've been dreaming about and you won't have to kiss some bankers' pimple-covered-@55 to get a good rate, if he'll let you...you've got the cash and you aren't making his next house payment for him.

I look at our parking-lot at work...most of the folks have those $20K-$30K cars parked out there...and I know that almost 90% of those people don't have that type of money for a straight cash-buy...everyone of those cars belongs to the bank...at least for the next 5-7 years...

Mine? I bought it from one of the other employees. She's trading her ride (that she kept) in for another, new, 5-year loaner...'til she's bored with that...and it'll be around $27K-$33K for her...I wouldn't worry though...she's done pretty well over the years...she could afford to BUY any car outright, she's just not into keeping anything, anymore, for more than 4-6 years anyways...

Here's another way to look at the psychology of pricing...you have two comparable (on the outside) cars (different manufacturers though), sitting next to one another...both have the same mileage on them, the paint looks to be in great shape, the interiors are pristine, there's no cig burns on the carpets and no ashes in the ash-trays (what are those things?) - yet Car #1 is selling for $12,500 and Car #2 is selling for $16,700...Which one is the "quicky" buyer going to want to buy? The more expensive one due to the perceived idea that the more $ means better quality...when in reality, the other car could have been just as mechanically sound, if not better...the average "Joe" wouldn't know quality if it hit him up-side his head...and that's the type of thinking that is driving our economy right now.

And the bankers are holding the reins.

Is it the bankers' fault? Nope, not really...

We are raising kids (and have had already turned them loose) that have no concept of what a dollar means, let alone what it takes to earn it. They expect the "river of plastic" to never run dry...and if it does, they can come back to mommy and daddy and everything will be all right.

Our problem is that due to our own pride, we never sat our kids down and explained to them that the reason Easter comes so many months after Christmas and all those GD PB&J sandwiches is that someone, somewhere had to pull Peter Cottontail out of their @55 and start chitting nickles to pay off Santa and his henchmen...now you'll be able to eat Jelly-Beans and Jam instead of PB&Js 'til the 4th of July...

So, our kids grow up with the idea that Dad's job is just so "neato-keeno" and Mom's been helping out at the library...when in reality, Dad is tying to figure out how far he can live on the embezzled funds from the company's IRA-funds and mom's "hooking" at the local laudraumat for a pack of cigs and some sterno, so she can keep a buzz going long enough to pass out before she pulls out a knife to claim the insurance settlement she thinks the husband is still paying for, but isn't...

I digress...

We have nice, because we want it and demand it and we look for it in everything we buy and sell.

You're irritated at those that have the morals of a flea, and the folks that enable those traits...nothing we can't do that we haven't already tried to do. Now, we wait for the government to come and save them from themselves.

Go figure...now OUR money is being wasted...

How sad...

:(

I work on my car as a hobby and because i enjoy it. But I don't kid myself if I spend a day working on it thats a day lost. If I spend 1-2 days a month on my car thats losing 2 weeks a year.

As opposed to say a 36 month lease where you time spent is virtualy zero.