It is not the duty of government.
But the duty of the people to help each other.

We have never had a sustained period of peace in this country.
We have either been at war or planning for the next.
There is a difference between this war.
And War as a verb.



Kids without teachers are not slackers.
Kids without food are not slackers.
The mentally and physically handicapped are not slackers.
Day cares are not for slackers.
College grants are not for slackers.
Who said anything about funding slackers ?
You did.

Then what is the purpose of government, other than to help the people ?

In that line of thinking the war would also be a socialist act.
The government taking care of us.
Fighting the boogie monsters.

There is a difference between human compassion, and socialism.

The 81 Mercedes 300D running on veggie has been the most economical mode of transportation I have ever owned.

No, that is egocentric, gluttonous, lazy, prideful, and greedy.
The exact characteristics you were trying to pin on the people you call slackers.
Take a good look in the mirror.

Why is it that all such discussions go the way of extremes?
If one questions the propriety of our spending on
education
health care
the aged
abortions etc
someone is sure to assume that
we want ALL children illiterate
all poor people to die
all old people to eat dog food and die
all young girls will have back alley abortions

Can someone show how increased government spending on education has improved the intelligence of children?
The problem with government spending programs is that there no accountability; no measurement of results; no termination of program X if it doesn't produce measurable results. We simply add programs Y, Z and Aprime to program X and we pay for them all, and still children can't read.
Is there a limit that we can all agree is the MAX that government will ever take from its citizens, and that it will confine all its programs to that amount? Until such a time comes, there will be no end to the cry fro more money " for the children".

Since when do I owe you a living or anything? If I help you it is at my discretion.

Maybe he looked at what we are paying for vs what the world is getting out of their students and came to that conclusion? We spend more per student and get lower results.

Maybe it is a neutral body to make governing laws? Why do you seem to think that you are owed something in life? Step out of the USA and you will see that NOBODY owes you anything.

That's the problem. No accountability. Students don't have to make certain benchmarks or get flushed out of the program. That will free up money for those who want to learn. If those flushed out later decide they want to learn, I have no issue with giving them another shot at it.

I doubt it. Why? Because we each have our pet projects that we don't want cut. All in all, the govt cannot cut anything out without being unpopular. So they keep taxing us.

Well the way I understand it the US Government owes you what's in the Constitution and Bill of Rights, that would be the contract we have with them. Other than those duties they owe you jack, and IMHO should refrain from doing anything more.

Taking care of the infirm is not the governments responsiblity, it should fall to private charities or the Church.

Ah, but Sir, that is the ideal situation. However, if someone else comes along and says "vote for me and I'll take care of your elderly.", guess what? He gets the vote.

People love the feel good easy way out, the masses are pretty dumb and easy to manipulate.

If they spoke the truth they would say:
Vote for me and I'll take care of your elderly. Its going to cost you $2k a year if you are an average American, and $1k of that will go to other pork projects, $500 will be stolen, and $250 will go to foreign aid. The $250 thats left will go the the department that I create to take care of the elderly, of that $250, $225 will be used on administrative costs, the $25 thats left will be used to buy supplies that are marked up 100% because its the government. Then after the program is created I will borrow an extra $1k from China and give $500 to it, so it looks like I am getting something done.

F you American public, I will be at my Chateau in the Swiss Alps in 4 years when I'm out of office and you are stuck with the mess.

I finally understand politics, its kind of like being a CEO except CEO's actualy have to preform a bit. To run for office you just have to lie, cheat, and steal, pad your bank account then take off.:D

Exactly.

If they did, they would have to be dusting off their resume and find other work. We don't want to hear the truth. We can't handle the truth.

Notice I never said anyting about the government funding anyting.

I said

Look what we could be doing with our tax dollars besides war.

I am being forced to fund a war I do not agree with.
My money is being used to kill people.
I do not like that.

I am also forced to fund projects I don't agree with. That is the price of living in a society. You can't always get what you want. It would be nice that we get a project we all can agree with but that is only in Utopia. We are stuck with what we have.

CEOs don't have to perform.

Oh really? And you know what all CEO's do or don't do because .... ?

We are only stuck if we do not try to do better.
Just because we may never reach perfection does not mean
we should give up trying.

US commanders welcome Fallujah revival
By KIM GAMEL, Associated Press Writer
2 hours, 46 minutes ago

FALLUJAH, Iraq - Women shrouded in black shop for gold jewelry and fabric. Young boys tote trays of tea. The smell of tangerines wafts through the air. This is Fallujah 2008 — a former insurgent stronghold that U.S. commanders now hold up as an example for the rest of Iraq.

But a simmering provincial power struggle is threatening to raise new tensions among the fractured Sunni tribal chiefs and politicians of Anbar that some fear could distract them from the fight against al-Qaida in Iraq.

Anbar province was the stronghold of the insurgency that mobilized in the months after the 2003 U.S.-led invasion routed Saddam Hussein. Some of the bloodiest fighting of the war took place in Fallujah, the heart of the anti-American resistance until American troops stormed the city in November 2004.

The Euphrates River city, 40 miles west of Baghdad, remained a virtual prison and rebuilding was slow to take hold after the U.S. Marines clamped down on the perimeter and continued to face fierce fighting with insurgents.

That changed last year when Sunni tribal leaders joined forces with the Americans to deprive al-Qaida of sanctuaries and force the militants to flee or go into hiding. The so-called awakening movement has since spread to Baghdad and surrounding areas but nowhere has it been more widely successful at quelling the violence than in Anbar.

The military acknowledges al-Qaida and its trademark bombings remain a threat in the area, and attacks continue. A teenager blew himself up during a gathering of tribal members near Fallujah on Jan. 20, killing six people after using his tribal connections to penetrate tight security.

But Fallujans were all smiles on Saturday as the top U.S. commander in Iraq, Gen. David Petraeus, strolled helmetless through the central bazaar in the city. He stopped to drink tea and chat with vendors in a maze of stalls peddling everything from fruit to patterned rugs, most imported from Syria.

He heard some complaints about services and restricted access to the city of some 400,000 people. A line of cars and minibuses a half-mile long waited at the main checkpoint at the edge of the city on Saturday. Trucks enter at a separate post so their loads can be scanned.

The general smiled and said that was the price for security, but the military was working to improve the situation.

Abdul-Rahman Muhsin, a 42-year-old clothes vendor in the Fallujah market, said the turning point came when Americans began allowing residents to maintain one weapon at home.

"This overdue measure helped the people to defend themselves," he said. "Now, whenever we see al-Qaida attacking our neighbor, we don't have stand watching from the sidelines but we can all fight al-Qaida together."

With a measure of peace restored in Anbar, long-standing tribal rivalries have begun to resurface as a draft law laying out a timeline for new provincial elections is stalled in the national parliament. Many Sunnis are mad — they boycotted the first vote and are looking for a new distribution of power as payback for their efforts against al-Qaida.

In Anbar, the 22-member provincial council is dominated by the moderate Iraq Islamic Party of Sunni Vice President Tariq al-Hashemi, drawing protests from the influential tribal leaders.

Awakening council representatives announced this week that they were giving the party 30 days to vacate the seats it holds in the provincial council or face a crackdown like that launched against al-Qaida.

"The disputes with the Iraq Islamic Party began as we were fighting al-Qaida in Anbar. The Islamic Party defended al-Qaida and we hold against it any blood that was shed in Anbar," Hamid al-Hayeis, an awakening council chieftain, said Wednesday at a press conference in Baghdad, where he was lobbying for support from the national parliament.

The head of the Anbar provincial council, Abdul Salam al-Ani of the Iraq Islamic Party, countered Saturday with a threat to sue al-Hayeis.

Ahmed Khames, a 53-year-old electrical equipment dealer in central Fallujah, said the politicians and tribal leaders were jockeying for power and a cut of lucrative U.S. reconstruction contracts.

"The situation in Fallujah has gone from facing an al-Qaida threat to a new threat from warlords, those who lead armed groups affiliated with the awakening," he said.

U.S. commanders played down the tensions but said they were an example of the new reality in Anbar.

Marine Maj. Gen. Walter E. Gaskin of the 2nd Marine Expeditionary Force, who handed over control of the roughly 33,000 U.S. troops in Anbar on Saturday, acknowledged the fractured nature of the Sunni chieftains.

"They are homogenous in dialect, but they are independent in opinion and politics," he said at a news conference at the U.S. base near Fallujah. "What is important about the factions is that they are airing their political differences and solving them without violence."

Petraeus said dealing with that new reality would be one of the biggest challenges for the new Anbar commander, Maj. Gen. John Kelly of the 1st Marine Expeditionary Force.

"It's a very different challenge than the unit that preceded them, which of course had to deal with a very high level of violence," he said, stressing the need "to try to build on the momentum of the awakening movement, to try to keep a bunch of fractious tribal sheiks and Iraqi security force leaders pulling together at the traces instead of in different directions.

"Now there's quite a bit of momentum, but over time of course they're going to have to try to maintain, sustain and build on that momentum with fewer forces," he said.

During the handover ceremony, Gaskin noted that Anbar, which stretches west from Baghdad to the borders with Syria, Jordan and Saudi Arabia, had just months ago been declared a "lost cause."

"There is perhaps no province that better typifies the struggle for peace in Iraq than Anbar," Gaskin said.

Gaskin, who announced last month that Anbar will be returned to Iraqi control in March, said attacks in the North Carolina-sized province of an estimated 1.3 million people had dropped from an estimated 400 per week to about 25, and the number of Iraqi police had grown from 11,000 to 24,000.

The increase in Iraqi security forces also helped U.S. and Iraqi troops push most of the insurgents out of the population centers in an effort to push them northward and disrupt the flow of weapons and foreign fighters into Baghdad, commanders said.

The military said January saw a total of 155 attacks in Anbar, the lowest since the U.S. took control of the area after Saddam's ouster.

Gaskin said al-Qaida would always try to reassert itself in the province, but he expressed confidence the turning tide against the terror network and its brutal tactics was "irreversible."

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from Dee8go...

the govt could pay for my college 100% for 5 years at Harvard!


Move to Georgia, the lottery is paying for college for residents unlike the FL lottery that appears to be another fund raising effort while previous tax $ are going elsewhere. Don't even start on the cost of the war vs. rebuilding the US infrastructure.

There was an interesting article on the editorial page today about asking our allies to assist in paying for the war. How about Saudi Arabia giving us a $B a month or so in free oil to keep them safe?

If we invested 50% of the cost of the war in alternate fuels, how far along would we be on the way to not being captive by the political unrest of the Middle East? Ethanol / Biodiesel based on renewable land and water based crops instead of Middle Eastern and South American oil politics. That would be refreshing.