Air tool question - Page 2 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

kerry · #16 09-26-2008, 09:03 AM

It's a medium duty truck but it doesn't have air brakes. I have a torque multiplier but it is missing its original handle and I was using a piece of 3/4 steel rod as a handle. I only succeeded in bending the rod when I started putting pressure on the breaker bar. Perhaps with a better handle, the torque multiplier might work but I think I really need the hammering of an impact wrench as Brian noted.

Mike D · #17 09-26-2008, 09:15 AM

I don't suppose the lugs on the left hand side are left hand thread? Quite common on medium duty trucks.

OMEGAMAN · #18 09-26-2008, 09:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike D

I don't suppose the lugs on the left hand side are left hand thread? Quite common on medium duty trucks.

Ive been bit by that before. Wonder what they are torqued to now?

kerry · #19 09-26-2008, 09:36 AM

They are definitely left hand thread on the left side.
Don't know who torqued them or to what load but I figure me standing on an approximately 6' breaker bar had to be getting at least around 7-800 ft lbs and it wasn't phasing them at all.

Mike D · #20 09-26-2008, 09:50 AM

Call a tire shop. I don't believe your small compressor will put out enough cfm's to push your 1". Remember, the second you hit the trigger, the pressure drops and your gun probably flows about 9 cfm's or better in a minute. I have a 60 gallon tank with an 8 HP gas engine powered compressor. When I use my 3/4" impact on a set of 19.5" Budd lug wheels I have to wait for it to refill after about three lugs.

A C.F.M. is a 3X3X3 cube of air at 150 p.s.i. How big is your tank again?

Eskimo · #21 09-26-2008, 10:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Emmerich

A torque multiplier makes easy work of things, never used one myself, you have to secure it to something so I am not sure how you would attach it to the wheel.

There are some torque multipliers available that are set up specifically for lug nuts, where the "reaction bar" hooks on to another one of the lugs or lug nuts on the wheel. I've never used one like that, but here's a cheapie from Harbor Freight that shows the general layout.

I'd never heard of them until I did a little research after picking up a 3200 ft-lb. torque multiplier (not a cheapie) at auction a while back. Compared to any of the comparatively puny tools I already owned, wow, what a monster!

As already noted, no "hammer action" with these, but very potent if one needs straight-up torque.

Angel · #22 09-26-2008, 11:02 AM

I agree that the hammer action of am impact wrench is what you need, however if you arent going to buy a shop-sized air compressor anytime soon- where is what my dad always did.

Have one guy stand/pull/exert maximum torque on the lug nut using whatever means you have necessary (lengthen your breaker bar), hold that under torque and....

Have the 2nd guy get as large a hammer as he can hold with one hand, and pound on the nut, wrench or the metal (wheel) directly adjacent to the lug nut - tap as hard and as rapid as he(or she...) can - this hammering sets up vibrations that, in the absence of a "real" impact wrench, might break your nut loose (when the tapping and torque are applied at the same time). The harder you tap, the more the vibrations might work for you.

worth a shot IMHO- it has worked for me before.

-John

kerry · #23 09-26-2008, 03:05 PM

Well, I ended up using the pancake compressor because it was putting out around 110-115psi whereas the larger tanked compressor only had around 100psi. The extra psi seemed to make a substantial difference in power. I could get about a 5-10 second burst out of the compressor until it weakened. I worked on one wheel. Most nuts took about 5 attempts to loosen. One took 10-12 attempts but all nuts on that wheel eventually loosed. I retightened them with my 40" breaker bar.
One set of rear duals had been off recently when I had a flat on the way home from NC about a month ago. Those immediately loosened with the 1" impact. Don't know if I could have loosened those by hand since I don't have long enough 3/4 extensions at the moment to reach inside the dual wheel.

Mike D · #24 09-26-2008, 03:17 PM

Glad you got them free. Now do yourself a favor. Take them all off, dab a small bit of Permatex Anti-seize lubricant, part # 80078, onto each lug and re-tighten. Not the nuts but the lugs themselves. You will NEVER have the problem again.

kerry · #25 09-26-2008, 03:42 PM

Anti-seize on lug bolts????

http://www.tundrasolutions.com/forums/tires-and-wheels/44792-anti-seize-lug-nut-studs-why/

What are people's opinions on this?

Monomer · #26 09-26-2008, 05:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kerry

Anti-seize on lug bolts????

http://www.tundrasolutions.com/forums/tires-and-wheels/44792-anti-seize-lug-nut-studs-why/

What are people's opinions on this?

I would NEVER.

You'll be cleaning the thread everytime you take the wheels off, and it'll collect dirt that'll throw off you torque readings and do damage to the threads.

kmaysob · #27 09-26-2008, 07:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Emmerich

I think he meant 1400 inch-pounds. The 1/2 impacts I have seen claim in the 300-400 ft-lb range (I know the math doesn't seem to work out) with some high dollar ones getting to 600. A 3/4 can get 1000. You would have to go bigger to get 1400 and you would have a hard time holding it and it takes a LOT of high pressure air to run it, maybe more than a home compressor can generate.

But the impact will help to break things if they are going to break, problem is you have to keep recharging the tank to keep the pressure high enough to get full power.

With a 3 ft cheater a 200lb guy can sit on it for 600 ft-lbs, and you can easily pull 300-400 with your arms (times 3), especially if you jerk it.

Every time I had one stuck, the 1/2 impact NEVER worked and I had to use a regular breaker bar each time and it worked.

A torque multiplier makes easy work of things, never used one myself, you have to secure it to something so I am not sure how you would attach it to the wheel. Some front engine nuts have a 350 ft-lb spec (lug nuts DO NOT!) and you need a multiplier, mainly due to space limitations.

most 1/2in impacts do in the 5-600 range. mine on the other hand will do 1000. using the impact emits a shock to the bolt that helps loosen. and yes some lugnuts do use that kinda torque.

Brian Carlton · #28 09-26-2008, 07:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kerry

Anti-seize on lug bolts????

http://www.tundrasolutions.com/forums/tires-and-wheels/44792-anti-seize-lug-nut-studs-why/

What are people's opinions on this?

While I don't believe you would get into any major problems with it, the theory that it offers reduced friction and therefore increased clamp force does hold sway.

The stud is designed to be clean and lubricated with oil. That's probably the best choice. The oil isn't going anywhere for the period until the wheel is removed again.

Mike D · #29 09-26-2008, 08:09 PM

Anti-seize has nothing what-so-ever to do with reducing the torque between the flange of the lug/nut, the rim and the axle/hub which is what holds the wheel on. It's the metal compression factor not the thread to thread metal contact which stops your wheel/tire assembly from becoming a Frisbee. Lightly lubricated threads will actually give you a truer torque because the friction factor between the threads is reduced.

How would a small amount of never-seize collect dirt in a relatively sealed environment?

I'll stand on my 35 years of fleet maintenance experience. I'll conservately estimate 3000+ tire removals/replacements on ALL manner of rim/wheel/vehicle combinations.

Emmerich · #30 09-26-2008, 08:24 PM

Anti seize is needed and like the one guy said, it goes on the face of the nut, as well as threads. The initial force is needed to overcome friction on the wheel face, not the threads.

The only problem is torque specs are rated DRY. Someone needs to find the proper torque using anti seize. Maybe there is a standard conversion factor, but I have never heard of one.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike D

Anti-seize has nothing what-so-ever to do with reducing the torque between the flange of the lug/nut, the rim and the axle/hub which is what holds the wheel on. It's the metal compression factor not the thread to thread metal contact which stops your wheel/tire assembly from becoming a Frisbee. Lightly lubricated threads will actually give you a truer torque because the friction factor between the threads is reduced.

How would a small amount of never-seize collect dirt in a relatively sealed environment?

I'll stand on my 35 years of fleet maintenance experience. I'll conservately estimate 3000+ tire removals/replacements on ALL manner of rim/wheel/vehicle combinations.