At what point does loud speech, especially if inflammatory, become disturbing the peace? Surely there is conduct that could be dismissed by some as mere freedom of speech that others will consider disturbing the peace.

I can't stand in front of someone's house and yell abusive words for long periods and call it simple freedom of speech.

Police arrogance and over reaction is a problem but were I in their shoes, I could imagine being a bit sensitive to the sort of loud verbiage (as in the story in your next post) that borders on incitement.

I'm not always happy with my encounters with police but I consider that nations without police are sometimes referred to as the western tribal areas of Pakistan or perhaps Somalia, IOW, lawless no man's lands. Police in Mexico are regularly assassinated. Police are usually going to be in the minority in any large crowd control situation and language that might incite others to join in an attack on them has to be something they are wary of.

It's a difficult conundrum. I've seen video of Miami police, for example, banging heads on peaceful demonstrators and it's hard to watch. I'm thinking that respect and courtesy under non challenging situations, such as existed when Crowley first knocked on Gates' door, will only help in making progress.

That depends on whether the group in question wants to get themselves out of the stereotype or not. That is something nobody can do. As I have always said, the Japs got themselves out of the bad image of making junk that broke down and now they are more sought after than the Big 3 when it comes to cars and pretty much most other fields. When I was a kid, you bought Jap stuff because you could not afford better stuff. Today, the reverse is true.

Perhaps people will find him funny at the Unemployment Office. You never know.

With great emphasis on the word "was".

I don't know where the line is, but I don't think that Gates crossed it. My guess is that verbal abuse could rise to the point where it would violate the statute if it is so extreme that a reasonable person would expect a violent response, or some standard like that.

If the target of the abuse is a professional police officer, then I think it was take some really special verbal abuse to constitute disorderly conduct of a criminal nature.

I would think that at that point, it is up to the officer to voice his opinion and for the courts to decide if the opinion is valid or not.

That is the problem I have with the simple phrase "freedom of speech". Was it really meant for the conveyance of ideas or for you to be a jerk and have something to hide behind? I think it is the former.And for that matter, I can't stand on my front lawn and turn up the stereo as loud as it will go and call it freedom of speech while it disrupts the neighbors.

What exactly do you mean?

I think that would constitute disturbing the peace and earn you a fine. If you continued, then you might be brought into court (through some process) and ordered to stop. If you still continued, then you would be in contempt of court and could go to jail.No doubt about that.

Very simply put, the Japs were hated after WWII. Their products also sucked. You bought their stuff only because you couldn't afford better stuff. Somewhere along the line, they decided that they didn't want that bad image and they changed it. What they have achieved is no small thing. What I mean is that any group, black, white, green, pink, yellow, etc, etc that has a bad stereotype can change it. Today, the Chinese make junk. We laugh at their products. If they want to change that image, they can. It will not be easy but they can. Similarly, in this case, if black people want to get rid of the stereotype, they need to work towards it. In a perfectly fair and wonderful world, people give you a break and you live happily ever after. In this world we live in, you have to make your own break. Again, it's not fair but it is life. So, in this context, if the black community wants to break out of the stereotype, they need to, as a group, work on it. Sitting and hoping everyone will be nice to you is silly.

This whole episode strikes me as Twannah Brawley lite. A lot of people will never warm up to Sharpton owing to the disgusting way he pimped that obvious lie, obvious to anyone interested in justice, anyway. Brawley had attention whore/liar rubber stamped in red on her forhead but several police officers had their lives upened over that crap.

Gates has not begun to know police abuse. He reminds me a lot of Sharpton. Smoother, and more adept at working the system but similar.

Beer summit occurs, Crowley brings his lawyer and a union rep. I guess a couple guys can't just have a beer these days anymore :beerchug:

What is the black community stereotype?

It's different to each person. What is your idea of the stereotype ?

My idea is irrelevant. Aklim made the statement and I am trying to understand his.

Was Biden added to the beer summit to equal up the B/W so that Crowley didn't think he was being ganged up on?

In this context, it refers to any stereotype of the black community. It could be all the way from black men being thought to be hung like horses to black people being terrorists, criminals, murderers, etc, etc. The point, maybe not well made, is that if you, as a group, whatever your group, don't like a stereotype, it is your job, as a group, to change it. The Japs, in this case, obviously did not like the stereotype that they produced junk. They worked to overcome it and they are successful. Also note, they overcame the prejudice that they had from WWII vets who enjoyed their hospitality, not to mention the decedents. They did not come and say that we had to change our impression of their products. The changed our perception of their work on their own.