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tbomachines · #1 07-23-2009, 07:57 AM

Cambridge police arrested a black Harvard professor in his home the other day for disorderly conduct. Racial profiling or cops just doing their job?

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090723/ap_on_re_us/us_harvard_scholar_disorderly;_ylt=AjGLOsgRIriU1s5Is88KMSVvzwcF;_ylu=X3oDMTMybXNuaHZiBGFzc2V0A2FwLzI wMDkwNzIzL3VzX2hhcnZhcmRfc2Nob2xhcl9kaXNvcmRlcmx5BGNwb3MDNARwb3MDMQRzZWMDeW5faGVhZGxpbmVfbGlzdARzbGs DYXJyZXN0b2ZibGFj

POS · #2 07-23-2009, 08:16 AM

Well let's see. Two men are spotted by a witness breaking into a home. Police show up and ask questions. Gates, the homeowner, gets defensive and refuses to show police ID. He calls the cops "racist". Once ID is confirmed, the cops are leaving the home, walking onto the porch, and Gates is following them, calling them racists, and demanding the cops badge number. Gates gets arrested.

Same old crap, huh, Rodney King? How come when I get stopped or questioned by the police, I never get arrested? BECAUSE I'M NOT A BILIGERANT A-HOLE WHO PICKS FIGHTS WITH COPS. Turns out, Gates is buddies with Obama; I figure Gates was using the old "Do you know I'm friends with?" routine.

If a suspect shows lack of respect for a police officer, and on top of that, he also has the boldness to berate and follow the officer while the officer is leaving, then that suspect is now subject to arrest.

What I don't know is what was said by the officer in the home - he could have said some racist remark, but Gates isn't claiming that, and he's being very vocal. This is how it should have gone down: the cops show up, ask for ID, Gates says "it's my house, I lost my keys. Here's my ID that proves this is my house. No big deal, officer." Officer verifies information, then says "Okay, just doing our job." Gates says, "Yeah, I know. Thanks for checking on the house." The officer leaves, Gates goes to bed.

dynalow · #3 07-23-2009, 08:44 AM

This probably sums it up nicely.
Mano a Mano. Bruised Egos.
The Perfesser wasn't used to being treated without the customary and (maybe expected) academic Ivory Tower adulation.
Obama shouldn't have waded into this pissing contest of egos, imo.
Hmmm, I wonder if this was another news conference staged question?

Give it up. Move on.

Machismo and the Gates incident

By Joan Vennochi
Globe Columnist / July 23, 2009

THE ARREST of Henry Louis Gates Jr. by a Cambridge police officer is playing out along racial lines. But it’s also about power and machismo - on both sides.

Gates, a noted Harvard scholar who is African-American, was busted for a bad attitude. That isn’t grounds for a mug shot. But, black or white, sometimes it leads to one.

Earlier this year, a Wellesley businesswoman was arrested after a run-in with a state trooper at Logan International Airport. The trooper asked Margaret Greer, a 57-year-old portfolio manager, to move her Mercedes because it was obstructing a bus lane. She refused and sped off, hitting him with her car’s side mirror. Greer was charged with assault and battery with a dangerous weapon. She ultimately apologized and agreed to perform 200 hours of community service to resolve the charges.

Then there was the case of Randi Goldklank, the now ex-general manager of Channel 7, who went on an alcohol-and-prescription-drug-fueled tirade at Logan. As she was taken into custody, threatened to call a news crew and put the arresting trooper on TV and “ruin his life.’’ She, too, apologized.

In the Gates incident, there was no physical contact, drugs, or alcohol. All Gates did was allegedly shout at a police officer.

Gates was in his own home when a Cambridge police officer responded to a call about a possible break-in at that address. The professor had just returned home from filming a documentary in China. His front door was stuck shut and his taxi driver helped him pry it open. Then, Sergeant James Crowley appeared at his door and demanded to see identification. Gates provided it, although some facts about how and when are in dispute.

The police report states that Gates was arrested after exhibiting “loud and tumultuous behavior, in a public place, directed at a uniformed police officer who was investigating a report of a crime in progress.’’ Gates disputes some information provided in the police report, but does acknowledge that he responded with anger.

In anger, Gates brought up race, according to the police report. When Crowley told him he was investigating a report of a break-in, the professor said, “Why, because I’m a black man in America?’’

The report also states, “Gates then turned to me and told me that I had no idea who I was ‘messing’ with and that I had not heard the last of it.’’

If a white person displays an attitude like that, it is OK to call him arrogant. If a black person is called arrogant, it is considered code for “uppity’’ and an invitation to be labeled as a racist. So let’s just say that according to the police report, Gates sounds like what he is: a renowned Harvard academic who is used to deferential treatment. In this case, he didn’t get it, he didn’t like it, and he let it show.

Crowley didn’t like what he heard. He arrested Gates on a disorderly conduct charge, which has since been dropped.

Human beings of all races have a tendency to react as Gates did, especially when they are tired, frustrated, and privileged. Police officers usually don’t like it. The question is whether this police officer responded more harshly because of skin color.

The answer isn’t obvious, but both men could use some sensitivity training. Gates shouldn’t have yelled at the police officer; still, what he did was irritating, not criminal. Once the officer determined Gates did live in the house, he should have left, no matter what the professor was shouting.

Harvey Silverglate, a criminal defense lawyer, civil liberties defender, and Harvard Law School graduate, believes Gates’s arrest should be investigated, but not only because of its racial implications: Was Gates arrested and held as a way to teach him a lesson? If so, asks Silverglate, “Is this acceptable, regardless of whether the citizen is white or black?’’

In an ideal world, no. When it happens to a black man, racism may be the easy explanation, but that doesn’t make it the only explanation. Life and power in 21st-century America are more complicated than that.
Joan Vennochi can be reached at vennochi@globe.com.

dynalow · #4 07-23-2009, 08:58 AM

Story on Sgt. Crowley, the arresting officer.

Sergeant at eye of storm says he won't apologize
“I am not a racist,’’ said police Sergeant James Crowley .

Globe Staff / July 23, 2009
When Sergeant James M. Crowley climbed the front steps of Henry Louis Gates Jr.’s house last week and unexpectedly placed himself in international headlines, it was not the first time he had a memorable encounter in the line of duty with a prominent black man. Nearly 16 years ago, as a Brandeis University police officer, Crowley desperately tried to save the life of Reggie Lewis after the Boston Celtics star collapsed while practicing in the school gym.

“It bothers him terribly that he couldn’t save him,’’ Crowley’s 74-year-old mother, Verina Crowley, said yesterday, speaking of her son and the famous basketball player.

Yesterday, as President Obama condemned the Cambridge Police Department during a prime-time White House news conference and Crowley steadfastly refused to issue the apol ogy that Gates has sought, a fuller picture began to emerge of the 42-year-old sergeant who arrested the Harvard scholar last week on a charge of disorderly conduct on the porch of Gates’s Cambridge house.

Crowley was a certified emergency medical technician when he performed cardiopulmonary resuscitation on Lewis, to no avail, after the player’s heart stopped on July 27, 1993. In a Globe interview later that day, Crowley said he rushed to the university’s Shapiro Gymnasium, confirmed that Lewis had no pulse, and frantically tried to revive him.

“I just kept on going,’’ he said. “I just kept thinking, ‘Don’t let him die - just don’t die.’ ’’

Now, 16 years later, he stands accused of racism by Gates, one of the foremost scholars on race in America. Gates had just arrived home to his Cambridge house from a trip abroad to find his front door stuck shut. As he and the driver who brought him from the airport tried to push it open, a passerby called police with a report of a possible break-in. Crowley arrived and demanded that Gates, now inside, show him identification. Crowley’s police report said Gates behaved belligerently when he questioned him, which Gates denied. Authorities dropped the charge Tuesday after it ignited accusations of racism.

But people who know Crowley were skeptical or outright dismissive of allegations of racism. A prominent defense lawyer, a neighbor of Crowley’s, his union, and fellow officers described him yesterday as a respected, and respectful, officer who performs his job well and has led his colleagues in diversity training.
“He’s evenhanded and, in the cases I’ve had with him, he’s been very much in control and very professional,’’ said Joseph W. Monahan III, a criminal defense lawyer in Cambridge and former Middlesex County prosecutor. Monahan has represented several defendants arrested by Crowley for domestic assaults and ...............
more......
http://www.boston.com/news/local/massachusetts/articles/2009/07/23/officer_at_eye_of_storm_says_he_wont_apologize/

aklim · #5 07-23-2009, 11:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dynalow

Yesterday, as President Obama condemned the Cambridge Police Department during a prime-time White House news conference and Crowley steadfastly refused to issue the apol ogy that Gates has sought, a fuller picture began to emerge of the 42-year-old sergeant who arrested the Harvard scholar last week on a charge of disorderly conduct on the porch of Gates’s Cambridge house.

I'm so glad he has everything under so much control that he can spare the time to get involved with this piddly winks things.

Honus · #6 07-23-2009, 09:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by POS

Well let's see. Two men are spotted by a witness breaking into a home. Police show up and ask questions. Gates, the homeowner, gets defensive and refuses to show police ID. He calls the cops "racist". Once ID is confirmed, the cops are leaving the home, walking onto the porch, and Gates is following them, calling them racists, and demanding the cops badge number. Gates gets arrested...

Do you have a link? Those are not the facts I've heard or read. Even if they are the true facts, your interpretation of them is contrary to my understanding of what it means to live in America. Since when does an American have a duty to identify himself in his own home? And since when is demanding a badge number or calling the police racist grounds for arrest?

I don't think Gates got defensive. He got angry, which is completely appropriate under the circumstances. Are the officers so thin-skinned that they can't deal with an angry homeowner who did nothing of a threatening nature toward them?

The cop said he was following procedure. If so, then those procedures should be amended to permit the officer to exercise judgment. It should not have been hard for the officer to understand that a black man in his own home might be offended by the officer's demands to identify himself. That is not to say that the officer should have abandoned his investigation, but he also shouldn't have barged into the house without at least explaining why it was necessary for him to do so.

And Gates did not follow the police onto the porch. He complied with their repeated requests to step out of his house. The cops concede that by that point in the process Gates had satisfied them that he was in his own home. They jailed him for being rude.

I wasn't there, so maybe the cop had justification, but based on the reporting so far, this looks like an outrageous abuse of police power. I would say that what the officer did was anti-American, but I must admit that America has a long history of this sort of thing. So it's not really anti-American, but it is anti to what America should be.

dynalow · #7 07-23-2009, 10:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dculkin

Do you have a link? Those are not the facts I've heard or read. Even if they are the true facts, your interpretation of them is contrary to my understanding of what it means to live in America. Since when does an American have a duty to identify himself in his own home? And since when is demanding a badge number or calling the police racist grounds for arrest?

I don't think Gates got defensive. He got angry, which is completely appropriate under the circumstances. Are the officers so thin-skinned that they can't deal with an angry homeowner who did nothing of a threatening nature toward them?

The cop said he was following procedure. If so, then those procedures should be amended to permit the officer to exercise judgment. It should not have been hard for the officer to understand that a black man in his own home might be offended by the officer's demands to identify himself. That is not to say that the officer should have abandoned his investigation, but he also shouldn't have barged into the house without at least explaining why it was necessary for him to do so.

And Gates did not follow the police onto the porch. He complied with their repeated requests to step out of his house. The cops concede that by that point in the process Gates had satisfied them that he was in his own home. They jailed him for being rude.

I wasn't there, so maybe the cop had justification, but based on the reporting so far, this looks like an outrageous abuse of police power. I would say that what the officer did was anti-American, but I must admit that America has a long history of this sort of thing. So it's not really anti-American, but it is anti to what America should be.

"Outrageous abuse?"
"Anti-American"

Maybe, just maybe, the cop might have thought there was a teensy weensy chance the man was really involved in a B&E, like the caller suggsted might be the case.

I think asking for his ID is perfectly reasonable in the circumstances.

"May I see some identification"..(presumably to establish that the man was who he said he was and that he was not a burglar.)

"No, officer, it's ok. I live here"

Oh, ok then. I'll take your word. Have a nice day"

Is that how it should play out?

"May I see your license and registration please"
"Why? Cause I'm a Black Man"

Honus · #8 07-23-2009, 10:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dynalow

...Maybe, just maybe, the cop might have thought there was a teensy weensy chance the man was really involved in a B&E, like the caller suggsted might be the case...

I'd say it was more than a teensy weensy chance. The officer would have been negligent had he not taken steps to verify Gates' identity. Once they had accomplished that, they should have left him alone. That's what we do in America. We leave law abiding citizens alone, especially when they are in their own homes. We even do that for rude people.

Quote:

I think asking for his ID is perfectly reasonable in the circumstances.

I agree. I also agree that the officer should have anticipated that Gates would be offended by the request.

Quote:

"May I see some identification"..(presumably to establish that the man was who he said he was and that he was not a burglar.)

"No, officer, it's ok. I live here"

Oh, ok then. I'll take your word. Have a nice day"

Is that how it should play out?

No. Why do you ask? Did anyone suggest that it should play out that way?

Quote:

"May I see your license and registration please"
"Why? Cause I'm a Black Man"

And that's cause to send the man to jail? That's the the part that is outrageous and un-American, IMHO. I say this based on the facts I've read and heard. I'm sure there is more to the story, on both sides.

dynalow · #9 07-23-2009, 11:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dculkin

I'd say it was more than a teensy weensy chance. The officer would have been negligent had he not taken steps to verify Gates' identity.

No. Why do you ask? Did anyone suggest that it should play out that way?.

How does one interpret your " Since when does an American have a duty to identify himself in his own home?" remark in any way other than being totally opposed to it?

I "role reversed" it to see if it made sense. I can't see your remark as being sensible in absolute terms. Apparently you don't either. We agree. Apparently.

aklim · #10 07-23-2009, 12:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dculkin

We even do that for rude people.

I also agree that the officer should have anticipated that Gates would be offended by the request.

And that's cause to send the man to jail? That's the the part that is outrageous and un-American, IMHO. I say this based on the facts I've read and heard. I'm sure there is more to the story, on both sides.

I'm not fond of cops myself but why should a cop or anyone have to put up with abuse from anyone, especially someone who is supposed to be so highly educated? Do you feel you should have to put up with abuse?

Why? Because the suspect is black? Sorry. The cop has both a right and duty to ascertain who was there. OTOH, if someone had done a B&E on his house and let off because he seemed to get offended, I'll bet our friend would pull out the race card again.

The guy was begging for it and he got it.

mgburg · #11 07-23-2009, 12:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dynalow

"Outrageous abuse?"
"Anti-American"

Maybe, just maybe, the cop might have thought there was a teensy weensy chance the man was really involved in a B&E, like the caller suggsted might be the case.

I think asking for his ID is perfectly reasonable in the circumstances.

"May I see some identification"..(presumably to establish that the man was who he said he was and that he was not a burglar.)

"No, officer, it's ok. I live here"

Oh, ok then. I'll take your word. Have a nice day"

Is that how it should play out?

"May I see your license and registration please"
"Why? Cause I'm a Black Man"

Let's see...where have we seen something like this in the past that didn't quite work out as well as everyone would have wanted it to?

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

TWO OFFICERS: "What's going on here?"

JD: "Nothing officers. He's just my drunken gay lover. We were playing a little rough and now I'm trying to get him back in the house where he'll be a bit more decent. Don't worry, I'll clean up the blood."

TWO OFFICERS: "OK, we just wanted to be sure you guys were OK. Bye now."

Jeffery took his bleeding "lover" back into his apartment and finished off what he had started, just before his "lover" had escaped and unfortunately, ran into the only two cops in Milwaukee that probably had just come from a "diversity training" session...those two officers let the bleeding "lover/victim" back into the hands of Jeffery Dahmer...yep, that kid ended up being the last victim of ol' sicko Jeff...That kid would still be ALIVE today, if in fact those two cops didn't HAVE to be PC in a world where bad crap happens to all kinds of people...being around PC-adjusted folks just lowers your chances of coming out on top of the bad guy by a factor of 2.0:1...

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

If you want to claim racism in the case of Gates vs. Civility...show me were Crowley went "stick" up and down Gates face and body...if that's the case, you might have one...

As for the media sticking a camera up "O's" nose and wanting an opinion? He should have been spending our tax dollars on reparations for the homefront instead of offering the "black like me" rebuttal to inane questions from uninformed querists.

Gates needs a lesson on civility to people of authority...and it should be pointed out to him that since he doesn't have a Secret Service Detail assigned to him...he's just like the rest of us...we all put our pants on, one leg at a time, we all sit for Number 2 and if someone with a badge and gun is at your door, you invite them in, offer them a cup of coffee and answer their questions IF you have nothing to hide...

Works for the MAJORITY of this country and without any problems...some folks seem to think they're ABOVE everyone else...

I don't recall Gates being on the ballot last fall...do any of you?

And, when I get pulled over, or I'm stopped by an officer...where are my lips? Anywhere he wants them...I may not like it, but it beats (pardon the pun...oh hell, enjoy it!) getting poked in the eye with a sharp stick, any day!

Chas H · #12 07-23-2009, 12:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mgburg

Let's see...where have we seen something like this in the past that didn't quite work out as well as everyone would have wanted it to?

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

TWO OFFICERS: "What's going on here?"

JD: "Nothing officers. He's just my drunken gay lover. We were playing a little rough and now I'm trying to get him back in the house where he'll be a bit more decent. Don't worry, I'll clean up the blood"

TWO OFFICERS: "OK, we just wanted to be sure you guys were OK. Bye now."

Jeffery took his bleeding "lover" back into his apartment and finished off what he had started, just before his "lover" had escaped and unfortunately, ran into the only two cops in Milwaukee that probably had just come from a "diversity training" session...those two officers let the bleeding "lover/victim" back into the hands of Jeffery Dahmer...yep, that kid ended up being the last victim of ol' sicko Jeff...That kid would still be ALIVE today, if in fact those two cops didn't HAVE to be PC in a world where bad crap happens to all kinds of people...being around PC-adjusted folks just lowers your chances of coming out on top of the bad guy by a factor of 2.0:1...

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

If you want to claim racism in the case of Gates vs. Civility...show me were Crowley went "stick" up and down Gates face and body...if that's the case, you might have one...

As for the media sticking a camera up "O's" nose and wanting an opinion? He should have been spending our tax dollars on reparations for the homefront instead of offering the "black like me" rebuttal to inane questions from uninformed querists.

Gates needs a lesson on civility to people in authority...and it should be pointed out to him that since he doesn't have a Secret Service Detail assigned to him...he just like the rest of us...we all put our pants on, one leg at a time, we all sit for Number 2 and if someone with a badge and gun are at your door, you invite them in, offer them a cup of coffee and answer their questions IF you have nothing to hide...

Works for the MAJORITY of this country and without any problems...some folks seem to think they're ABOVE everyone else...

I don't recall Gates being on the ballot last fall...do any of you?

And, when I get pulled over, or I'm stopped by an officer...where are my lips? Anywhere he wants them...I may not like it, but it beats (pardon the pun...oh hell, enjoy it!) getting poked in the eye with a sharp stick, any day!

A very nice strawman argument.

aklim · #13 07-23-2009, 11:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dculkin

Since when does an American have a duty to identify himself in his own home? And since when is demanding a badge number or calling the police racist grounds for arrest?

I don't think Gates got defensive. He got angry, which is completely appropriate under the circumstances. Are the officers so thin-skinned that they can't deal with an angry homeowner who did nothing of a threatening nature toward them?

They jailed him for being rude.

I wasn't there, so maybe the cop had justification, but based on the reporting so far, this looks like an outrageous abuse of police power. I would say that what the officer did was anti-American, but I must admit that America has a long history of this sort of thing. So it's not really anti-American, but it is anti to what America should be.

So it is your contention that if I am breaking into your house and the cops come and I tell them "Buzz off. I live here." they should just walk off and say "Whoops. Sorry to bother you."? Of course, if they did that in a black neighborhood, would you say that they are fine or would you say that because it is a black area, they didn't bother to do their job of investigation? To answer your question, since it looks like someone is trying to break in.

How so? They were doing their job. Investigating whether it was really a break in or not. Remember Jeffery Dalhmer? People were wondering why the police didn't investigate further and just took him at his word. Some have even said that because it was a white on minority, the cops didn't care. Which way do you want it to be?

Well, maybe a man of his education should learn not to be so rude to others who have a job to do. Maybe we should all have the cops kiss is butt and recognize him for his prominence in the world?

Perhaps you are right. He should have just said, "Oh, it is a black guy. Forget it. Lets go home and leave him to do as he pleases.".

raslaje · #14 07-23-2009, 02:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dculkin

Since when does an American have a duty to identify himself in his own home?

Certainly when the cop is answering a call to put his life on the line to protect your home and you.

I forgot I had the alarm set and entered through a different door. I missed the phone call from the protection service and the cop was here in a flash. He asked to see a piece of mail and my identification. I was happy to do so. And impressed and thankful with the speed of response.

If the professor wouldn't have responded the same way if the cop was black, then he's a racist.

Honus · #15 07-23-2009, 03:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by raslaje

Certainly when the cop is answering a call to put his life on the line to protect your home and you.

I forgot I had the alarm set and entered through a different door. I missed the phone call from the protection service and the cop was here in a flash. He asked to see a piece of mail and my identification. I was happy to do so. And impressed and thankful with the speed of response.

If the professor wouldn't have responded the same way if the cop was black, then he's a racist.

I agree with all of that, except for the part where a person has a "duty" to provide ID when in his own home. It might be wise and respectful to do so, but that is different than having a legal duty, IMHO.

I still see nothing in what you or anyone else has said that justifies jailing this man. Gates has been called self-important, rude, racist, and a bunch of other things. None of those things are illegal.

What did Gates do that justified his going to jail?