Who was right? - Page 2 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

MS Fowler · #16 07-23-2009, 11:10 AM

Bad cops need to be expunged--I'll make no defense of bad cops.
However, there is a certain assumption that all white cops are racists. A former police commisioner for Baltimore , ( a white guy from NYC) remarks that during his community meetings as part of the confirmation process, one community leader called him a racist, " Because you are sitting like a racist!".
How is it possible to intelligently conbat that sort of predudice??

Jorn · #17 07-23-2009, 11:31 AM

I like to stay out of discussions about racism discussed by white people. As a white person you can not imagine that racism is still rampart, because you never experience it. I remember some one claiming here that racism was over after Obama was elected; now he has one of the longest post in this thread...just think about it.

I had two black guys working for me on a film I shot; an electrician and a grip, both were hard working guys from Inglewood. When they would leave the set they would place there call-sheet on there dash, so that if they were pulled over they could show the call-sheet to the cops with out reaching in there glove box or bag and explaining they came from work. These guys were pulled over for no other reason then being black at least twice a month. Me as a white guy has never been pulled over and for work I do go to many dodgy neighborhoods in LA.

I'm sure that if the professor was white the situation would have ended completely different.

JollyRoger · #18 07-23-2009, 11:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tbomachines

I agree, he shouldn't have hounded the cops. He was probably really grouchy though - he had just returned from flight from China and came home to find his house locked. I'd be pretty grumpy too. I think the reality lies in the middle here, he was probably pissed off to begin with, and the cops were dumb enough to arrest the guy in his own house. Regardless of any racist comments, the guy was on his own property, and the cops are trained to deal with irate individuals. I think Obama hit it on the mark with his comments last night at his press conference.

I agree. This really smacked of some cop having a "back talk me, will ya?" moment with an uppity black person. I also have a real problem with a cop who doesn't respect the concept of a man's home being his castle. If a cop doesn't have a warrant, he should expect an irate homeowner and accept it as just being part of the situation and cut the guy some slack, I know I wouldn't be too happy with some cop who entered my property without one up until the time the situation became clearer. It really sounds to me like this cop has some sort of "pride" problem and was simply unable to back off from an old guy having a bad day, and had some need to be the "winner" in the exchange.

According to the reports, the guy went off on the cop specifically citing that he thought the cop was hassling him because of his race, so my question is, what did the cop do to set that off? The cop used pretty poor judgement in arresting the guy once the words exchanged became racially charged, nevermind the fact the idiot cop couldn't figure out that some grey-haired old black dude in a golf shirt with a chaeffeur probably owned the place. His poor judgement would indicate to me he ought to find another line of work.

Medmech · #19 07-23-2009, 11:37 AM

The guy could have easily circumvented the entire mess by simply showing the officer his ID and thank the officer for his due diligence.

Gurkha · #20 07-23-2009, 11:37 AM

The prof needs to get his pipes cleaned seriously, he truly over reacted here.

aklim · #21 07-23-2009, 11:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dynalow

Yesterday, as President Obama condemned the Cambridge Police Department during a prime-time White House news conference and Crowley steadfastly refused to issue the apol ogy that Gates has sought, a fuller picture began to emerge of the 42-year-old sergeant who arrested the Harvard scholar last week on a charge of disorderly conduct on the porch of Gates’s Cambridge house.

I'm so glad he has everything under so much control that he can spare the time to get involved with this piddly winks things.

kerry · #22 07-23-2009, 11:45 AM

Oddest part is that neighbors called cops when Gates was having trouble getting into his own house. You'd think the neighbors would know Gates and recognize him. Wonder how many black people live on that block? If it is mostly a white neighborhood, I think the cop should have been smart enough to see the potential problem, and just back off. If it's a mixed neighborhood, I think the situation might be different.

dynalow · #23 07-23-2009, 11:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dculkin

I'd say it was more than a teensy weensy chance. The officer would have been negligent had he not taken steps to verify Gates' identity.

No. Why do you ask? Did anyone suggest that it should play out that way?.

How does one interpret your " Since when does an American have a duty to identify himself in his own home?" remark in any way other than being totally opposed to it?

I "role reversed" it to see if it made sense. I can't see your remark as being sensible in absolute terms. Apparently you don't either. We agree. Apparently.

aklim · #24 07-23-2009, 11:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dculkin

Since when does an American have a duty to identify himself in his own home? And since when is demanding a badge number or calling the police racist grounds for arrest?

I don't think Gates got defensive. He got angry, which is completely appropriate under the circumstances. Are the officers so thin-skinned that they can't deal with an angry homeowner who did nothing of a threatening nature toward them?

They jailed him for being rude.

I wasn't there, so maybe the cop had justification, but based on the reporting so far, this looks like an outrageous abuse of police power. I would say that what the officer did was anti-American, but I must admit that America has a long history of this sort of thing. So it's not really anti-American, but it is anti to what America should be.

So it is your contention that if I am breaking into your house and the cops come and I tell them "Buzz off. I live here." they should just walk off and say "Whoops. Sorry to bother you."? Of course, if they did that in a black neighborhood, would you say that they are fine or would you say that because it is a black area, they didn't bother to do their job of investigation? To answer your question, since it looks like someone is trying to break in.

How so? They were doing their job. Investigating whether it was really a break in or not. Remember Jeffery Dalhmer? People were wondering why the police didn't investigate further and just took him at his word. Some have even said that because it was a white on minority, the cops didn't care. Which way do you want it to be?

Well, maybe a man of his education should learn not to be so rude to others who have a job to do. Maybe we should all have the cops kiss is butt and recognize him for his prominence in the world?

Perhaps you are right. He should have just said, "Oh, it is a black guy. Forget it. Lets go home and leave him to do as he pleases.".

POS · #25 07-23-2009, 12:00 PM

And now you can read the police report - Gates is an a-hole. I'll stand by that. If a cop has a good reason to ask for your ID (such as just doing a breaking/entry into your own home), and your response is "Why? Because I'm a black man in America?", then you've just set the ****ty tone from that point forward. The cop didn't set the tone, the professor did. The professor's response should have been one of understanding for his role in the situation, not complete defensiveness. Had he shown the cop his ID, explained why he broke into his own house, the cop would have left and none of this would have happened.

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/years/2009/0723092gates1.html

aklim · #26 07-23-2009, 12:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dculkin

We even do that for rude people.

I also agree that the officer should have anticipated that Gates would be offended by the request.

And that's cause to send the man to jail? That's the the part that is outrageous and un-American, IMHO. I say this based on the facts I've read and heard. I'm sure there is more to the story, on both sides.

I'm not fond of cops myself but why should a cop or anyone have to put up with abuse from anyone, especially someone who is supposed to be so highly educated? Do you feel you should have to put up with abuse?

Why? Because the suspect is black? Sorry. The cop has both a right and duty to ascertain who was there. OTOH, if someone had done a B&E on his house and let off because he seemed to get offended, I'll bet our friend would pull out the race card again.

The guy was begging for it and he got it.

tbomachines · #27 07-23-2009, 12:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by POS

And now you can read the police report - Gates is an a-hole. I'll stand by that.

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/years/2009/0723092gates1.html

Yes but that is just the officers' side of the story. Obviously they are going to justify their arrest in the report and make it seem like he deserved to be arrested - no matter how much of an actual bend it is.

aklim · #28 07-23-2009, 12:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dculkin

Talk about slandering the Cambridge police. I don't think they would appreciate being compared to the goons who beat Rodney King. Those cops were convicted of serious crimes for what they did. As the excellent federal prosecutor said in his closing argument, the cops who beat Rodney King were "bullies with badges." In America, if you wear a badge, you can't be a bully. It's one reason being a police officer is such a difficult job.

I think the word you are searching for is RAILROADED not convicted. After the riots, there was no way they would not be found guilty. Talk of un-American. Didn't they get off on the first set of charges and found guilty on another set so as not to get into a Double Jeopardy issue? When they were found not guilty, we should have set them free and not try find something else to tack on to them. What happened to spirit of the law vs letter of the law? True, they were convicted but that was because the spirit of the law was broken while the letter of the law was intact.

Chas H · #29 07-23-2009, 12:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aklim

I'm not fond of cops myself but why should a cop or anyone have to put up with abuse from anyone, especially someone who is supposed to be so highly educated? Do you feel you should have to put up with abuse?

Gates was in his home. Isn't that a man's last refuge? He was charged with an offense occuring in a public place.
If a cop can't take a bit of verbal abuse he's in the wrong job.

aklim · #30 07-23-2009, 12:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JollyRoger

I also have a real problem with a cop who doesn't respect the concept of a man's home being his castle.

According to the reports, the guy went off on the cop specifically citing that he thought the cop was hassling him because of his race, so my question is, what did the cop do to set that off?

The cop used pretty poor judgement in arresting the guy once the words exchanged became racially charged,

nevermind the fact the idiot cop couldn't figure out that some grey-haired old black dude in a golf shirt with a chaeffeur probably owned the place. His poor judgement would indicate to me he ought to find another line of work.

And just how would YOU ascertain that WITHOUT asking for ID and proof? Take the suspect's good word? If I was breaking into your house and a cop came and I told him that I lived there, are you telling me he should just say "Sorry to bother you. Have a nice day." and leave without asking any more questions?

How about the answer "by being white"? So now your thesis is that because I am white and you are black and you get pissed at me, it is automatically my fault?

I think you will have to talk to Stacy Koon and company. They even thought that the video was a good thing till it blew up. I think the cop did the right thing. Once such a serious charge of racism is leveled, bring the guy in and let him sort out his case in court. OTOH he could also look like he was trying to cover it up by not reporting such a serious matter.

You mean like when the white cops were accused of ignoring minorities when Jeffery told them that the kid was his boyfriend and had pics of him with underwear on? They even returned the victim to Jeffery. Perhaps these cops should have done that.