Well, I hope you're right. But that sounds like a far-fetched result from a few people buying new cars on a one-time basis.

I'll ask it again: How do they sell the next batch of new cars?

Also the reduction of pollution is patchy ... could be, could be inconsequential ... another change to this plan I would have like to have seen would be higher standards on what new car you have to buy. I.e., trading in your truck that gets 14 mpg for one that gets 16 mpg doesn't get me all excited. Trading in a car that get 14 for one that gets 35? A good move environmentally and economically.

Just the engine.

Everything else is up for grabs. I'll be thrilled to see a fine selection of newly junked MB's ready to be parted out.

Far more than a few, easily in the 10's of thousands.


Hopefully the economy will recover someday. There are no guarentees on that however. We've really dug a deep, deep hole this time.

In most cases, the reduction in pollution will be positive. Not overwhelming, but positive. Same with MPG, 14mpg to 16mpg is a 15% savaings. And 14mpg to 18+ is more realistic in this program.

10s of thousands is a few in the big picture. It was based on a fleeting motivator, so what's going to make people buy the next 10s of thousands?

Agreed but if the environment were the real motivation, they could have aimed higher. Aiming higher might have helped the U.S. auto industry avoid this in the first place ... but that's obviously speculation.

Well, that's a big improvement ... I had been told nothing could be removed for resale or salvage. Maybe that stipulation was aimed only at the dealerships, not the junkyards.

I still think the junked cars are a marvelous monument to the pathetic shortsightedness, greed and idiocy that got our country in trouble ... and that approach to life hasn't faded one bit. Getting rid of the cars won't get rid of the mind-set. We're deeply entrenched in that flawed culture. It will take a long time, and a lot of compromise, to get out of it.

I'm kinda on both sides of the fence on this one... On the one hand I agree that its not really helping the economy (I think they shot themselves in the foot by not making the program be open to only new American made cars...)


But on the other I can see that the program can make sense under the right circumstances. We might be getting rid of our van for a VW TDI even though we are more then capable in fixing it ourselves. It simplly comes down to the fact that my mom wanted a new car anyways and the van has a few expensive mechanical problems that will need attention soon (New axles.....) Also we don't need something that big any longer. So if it was on its way out anyways....

Wow, I am impressed, did Obama tell you that?

Oh, my mistake, I suppose the auto makers can't give rebates or discounts without a socialist program that some claim to be an investment.

Who wins here? The dealer who pockets $3500 or $4500? or the consumer, who gets shafted by crooked dealers who inflate the price of automobiles in order to pocket the money?

I guess both do, because each gets a handout from the taxpayers.

What's next? Handouts for digital tv converter boxes? Oh wait, we already did that, and it was a drop in the bucket compared to the money the greedy and crooked auto industry is milking from the taxpayers.

Quite right. Why should all of us help pay for someone else's new car? I have read the official gov't documents, and this program is nothing more than a scam.

People forget that the cars being "clunkered" have some sort of value, they could be traded in or sold by the owner to someone else. But that means work, and that is a four letter word these days.

I suppose it's, better to let Obama and his minions haul your clunker away(via this program) and give the dealer a direct deposit of $3500 or $4500 of taxpayer's hard earned money. The dealer keeps rebates and incentives that he could have used along with the trade in value or down payment(with proceeds from a private sale) in order to sell the car at the same price without the C.A.R.S. program.

Though, I guess by the looks of it on youboob, if you are a immature gopher at a dealership you get to have lot's of fun destroying a nicer car than you probably own.

No. I researched the issue and weighed the positives and negatives. Something you haven't done for yourself.

Your forgiven. If you haven't noticed, rebates and discounts have been abundant for several years. This is not a socialist program. It's a temprary stimulus incentive to revitialize the economy which nearly collapsed less than a year ago.


Everyone wins here.

The dealer does not pocket the money, it comes off the price of the car.

If you get shafted by the dealer your probably a complete idiot. One only needs to do 15 minutes of research to know the fair price for a car.

That's not the way it works, You obviously have no clue of what your talking about.

All the discounts, rebates and incentives get taken off the MSRP of the car. The dealer get nothing extra out of the program except the additional car sales and perhaps a small salvage price for the clunker car.

Let's do some simple math on a typical car with a rebate, stay with me here:

$20,000 car
-4,500 incentive
-1,500 mfg.rebate
-1,500 +/- estimated dealer discount by an informed buyer
$12,500 net cost to consumer before tax/title/reg = Sweet deal on a 20k car.

You probably haven't noticed, but most new car dealers and manufacturers are barely keeping their heads above water right now, if that.

I am probably going to take advantage of this deal. I know I've said before that I dont like debt and all. But If I can trade in my car and get 4500 for it, which is way more than its worth, and buy a cheap new car, I will do it. Sure it doesn't have the road presence of a w126 and its not going to be paid for right away, but it will be reliable for the next five years which is way more than I can say for my benz. I am currently looking at a Mazda 3 base model which has everything I need in a car and has just as many options as my car considering most of them are broken. With the rebate from the gov. and additional rebates, I can finance 12000 and have it paid off in less than 2 years.

I'd say you are the narrow minded one throwing out insults like that. You are near the top of the list of insulters for no reason here on SF. How much energy is spent designing the new car? How much energy is spent getting the raw materials for the new car? How much energy is spent transforming the materials into the car shape? How much energy is spent building the new car? How much energy is spent shipping the new car? How much energy is spent marketing the new car? No study has been done on this yet everyone seems to claim this is better for the planet. I cannot think of one example of destroying something that works perfectly in order to have a newer one that shows that's the right thing to do, or better for the planet.
McCain's got it right: we don't need to give money to the big three since we own one of them.

I don't know about all of the envireonmental consequenses of this program and I really dont care, but I have been feeling a need to rid myself of my mercedes for the past year. I seem to hang on and it lets me down. Its had a good run and I really like the car, but I am looking to stay out from underneath a car for a while. If this program doesnt stick thats cool, Ill get a used car. Either way the benz was gonna go anyway.What doesnt go to the big three goes to phil, mbusa and my mechanic.

Who is actually doing the checking that the engines are actually disabled?
Seems to me that is the most valueable part of the car. Sort of like destroying confiscated firearms instead of selling them or returning them to their once-rightful owners. Feel-good legislation that doesn't really accomplish anything except waste resources.

Agreed. It almost seems a spiteful ceremonial gesture. It may be the case for most of the engines that recycling the metals is the most effective use, but they're making it seem like they're tearing down the Berlin Wall.:rolleyes: