I work at a newspaper and have had to read our extensive -- and painfully ignorant -- coverage of Cash For Clunkers. It has made me so angry and depressed I can barely see straight. Packed with quotes to the effect of "I'm getting $4,500! How could I pass up this deal?" (Ummm ... you're getting $4,500 to lose $15,000) and, from a car salesman, "We're selling cars like candy today!" (Awesome, the economy is saved, really.) Finally in today's paper, at the very end of the article, our reporter talked to a couple people who weren't biting. The last one actually made me grin. I'd like to meet this guy and shake his hand:

"Wesley Smith, of Bear, also is holding on to his 1990 BMW. Its paint looks bad and it gets 16 to 18 mpg, but it's still running great with 408,000 miles.
"What would I want to get rid of it for?" he said."

Sounds like a kindred soul, Mercedes or not. Right before this guy they talked to a man with a 250,000 Tahoe who said he wouldn't consider junking it ... it runs like new. It was kind of nice to know these people are floating around amidst the madness. Of course we need people to buy new cars to keep the economy going ... but that can happen without forcing people to waste and trash things prematurely (especially since they do that naturally ... why push them?). The industry has a circle of life. Some people seem to get it; others don't.

__________________
1987 300D, arctic white/palomino--314,000 miles
1978 240D 4-speed, Euro Delivery, light ivory/bamboo--370,000 miles
2005 Jeep Liberty CRD Limited, light khaki/slate--140,000 miles
2018 Chevy Cruze diesel, 6-speed manual, satin steel metallic/kalahari--19,000 miles
1982 Peugeot 505 diesel, 4-speed manual, blue/blue, 130,000 miles
1995 S320, black/parchment--34,000 miles (Dad's car)

No one is forced to participate. Dodge dealers are offering to match the g'ment rebate and other makers will likely need to follow. In my opinion it's the quickest way, so far, to get cash down to the local level. Sure beats giving a bank president a huge bonus.

The local Chebby dealer is also matching the rebate.


Hehe, this question begs to ask the question... What would you get rid of your car for?

__________________
-Justin

91 560 SEC AMG - other dogs dd
01 Honda S2000 - dogs dd
07 MB ML320 CDI - dd
16 Lexus IS250 - wifes dd

it's automatic.

You don't get it.

__________________
Question Authority before it Questions you.

You get it.

__________________
Question Authority before it Questions you.

Yep...I get it...

Here's what I have already:

I have a car that's 100% paid for...the only thing I need to provide ANY OUTLAY FOR is some maintenance...

HOWEVER...If I'm drawn in by the Sirens' Songs of the Government Waste Machine...I can get the following...

1. - A new car, where if the rebate is matched, it MIGHT just about cover the depreciation I get when I stick the key in the ignition, turn it and drive off the dealers' lot...

2. - A new car, that now requires a higher insurance premium...my older unit didn't need to carry all of that other crap...but hey...I'm now sticking money that I could have used for other items into some insurance monkey's pocket...Oh! Joy!

3. - A new car, that despite its newness, will still require the same type and amount of REGULAR maintenance...and since I've always been a little skeptical of maintenance intervals in the newer models...I'll still stick to the same tried and true methods that have allowed me to keep my current stock of vehicles long after everyone else has trashed theirs...

4. - And I also get to watch a carefully maintained, wonderful piece of road-worthy history get unceremoniously raped and destroyed by earthers that couldn't care less about quality, let alone appreciate anything but their short-sighted and ill-gotten gains.

Yah...I get it...If I "buy" into the Government's plan of removing "junkers/clunkers" from our highways...I'm getting it alright...right up the ol' Hershey Highway...Shift column, shift column boot and transmission too.

Short-term thinking for short-term solutions...and the bankers still get money stuck into their pockets...

Remember the term NEW CAR PAYMENTS????



Somebody wake the bus driver up...there's a chance we might crash. Oh! Wait! Never mind...I'll just get off this lemmings' express...

__________________

M. G. Burg
'10 - Dakota SXT - Daily Ride / ≈ 172.5K
.'76 - 450SLC - 107.024.12 / < .89.20 K
..'77 - 280E - 123.033.12 / > 128.20 K
...'67 - El Camino - 283ci / > 207.00 K
....'75 - Yamaha - 650XS / < 21.00 K
.....'87 - G20 Sportvan / > 206.00 K
......'85 - 4WINNS 160 I.O. / 140hp
.......'74 - Honda CT70 / Real 125
.
“I didn’t really say everything I said.”
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . ~ Yogi Berra ~

It a better deal than the trillions we are spending in Iraq.

I have to ask...WTF does "Cluckers For Cash" have to do w/Iraq?

Slow day at the keyboard?

__________________

M. G. Burg
'10 - Dakota SXT - Daily Ride / ≈ 172.5K
.'76 - 450SLC - 107.024.12 / < .89.20 K
..'77 - 280E - 123.033.12 / > 128.20 K
...'67 - El Camino - 283ci / > 207.00 K
....'75 - Yamaha - 650XS / < 21.00 K
.....'87 - G20 Sportvan / > 206.00 K
......'85 - 4WINNS 160 I.O. / 140hp
.......'74 - Honda CT70 / Real 125
.
“I didn’t really say everything I said.”
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . ~ Yogi Berra ~

The g'ment is spending money on a project you disagree with. But I have yet to read you disagree with invading Iraq-a much, much larger expense.

Just like you, I have my pet "faves" - This thread is not about one of them...therefore, I comment in the negative...

I'm assuming you would comment in the negative, about a money-pit hole like Iraq, likewise...

Therefore, we agree to disagree...

Now, if we could pack a few pounds of uranium in a neat little package, wrap a "clunker" 1990 Chrysler Mini-van around it, then fly it over to the Afgan border and drop a few on top of OBL, then you and I could be a little closer to some common ground as to what our Government might be doing that would qualify it for a pat on the back...

But, until then...

__________________

M. G. Burg
'10 - Dakota SXT - Daily Ride / ≈ 172.5K
.'76 - 450SLC - 107.024.12 / < .89.20 K
..'77 - 280E - 123.033.12 / > 128.20 K
...'67 - El Camino - 283ci / > 207.00 K
....'75 - Yamaha - 650XS / < 21.00 K
.....'87 - G20 Sportvan / > 206.00 K
......'85 - 4WINNS 160 I.O. / 140hp
.......'74 - Honda CT70 / Real 125
.
“I didn’t really say everything I said.”
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . ~ Yogi Berra ~

I believe that you and others on this thread look at the program from the position of person who is capable of diagnosing and repairing an older vehicle.

This is the fundamental point that is missed by those that decry the program. If you own a vehicle that gets 18 mpg, but can maintain it at relatively low expense (read: do your own labor), there is an economic disincentive to get a trade-in value of only $4500. and assume a car payment on a new vehicle.

However, if you are like the vast majority of the population and understand that all a vehicle requires is for you to turn the key to "start", the program makes very good sense if you happen to own one of these older vehicles. You certainly need to seriously consider selling or trading this old vehicle anyway..........and, nobody is going to give you anywhere near $4,500. for it. So, if the government gives $4500. and the dealer gives $4500, you're $9000. closer to a brand new vehicle that gets significantly better fuel economy. If you decide to do the deal, which makes very good economic sense for you, you get a vehicle without the need for any repairs for the next five years at a cost of approximately $300. per month.

The folks who cannot see the benefits of this program are simply blind to the fact that most of the people in this country are incapable of repairing an older vehicle at a reasonable cost.

Brian, you missed the other parts of what I typed...

More money is needed for insurance...even WI. is starting (FINALLY) to require everyone to carry insurance in 2010...new or old...the insurance companies are going to require higher premiums for folks that have the newer cars...what part of not-affordable are we missing here?

Maintenance will still be required...or in five years (or less), that "new car" is going to be puking out more carbon than what it replaced...and the people less likely to do REGULAR MAINTENANCE are the same schmucks that got suckered into trashing out their older vehicles...nothings changed, just the the wheels...the same idiots are driving around in shinier cans...that's all...

And you're right...they'll have $300.00/month to pay to....whom? The bankers...the people that were at the top of the food chain when the collapse started...they'll be back up at the top...still raking in the dough and the folks at the bottom will still be paying them when their new POS finally puke out because they couldn't afford to maintain the unit, insure the unit, let alone put gas/diesel/WVO into it...but the bankers still get paid first...

Makes sense to me to keep the bankers out of my pocket altogether...

But, some people love playing (and living) as a masochist...

__________________

M. G. Burg
'10 - Dakota SXT - Daily Ride / ≈ 172.5K
.'76 - 450SLC - 107.024.12 / < .89.20 K
..'77 - 280E - 123.033.12 / > 128.20 K
...'67 - El Camino - 283ci / > 207.00 K
....'75 - Yamaha - 650XS / < 21.00 K
.....'87 - G20 Sportvan / > 206.00 K
......'85 - 4WINNS 160 I.O. / 140hp
.......'74 - Honda CT70 / Real 125
.
“I didn’t really say everything I said.”
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . ~ Yogi Berra ~

Don't let the door smack you in the ass on the way out.

In the mean time, our national and local economies are getting a big boost from this program and many people will keep their jobs because of it. But obviously your to narrow minded to see the bigger picture here and what this program will actually accomplish.

__________________
Question Authority before it Questions you.

I saw a news report today on the cash for clunkers program...they were in a lot full of clunkers, and they were well over 50% jeep grand cherokees and ford explorers. The rest were mainly domestics too...go figure.

__________________
TC
Current stable:
- 2004 Mazda RALLYWANKEL
- 2007 Saturn sky redline
- 2004 Explorer...under surgery.

Past: 135i, GTI, 300E, 300SD, 300SD, Stealth

I get more than you think I get. Throwing cash back into a failed infrastructure doesn't fix the problem. A debt-drenched economy will fail; it cannot sustain itself indefinitely. It has failed already and taking taxpayers' money and throwing it out there to entice the consumer base to go back to it's irresponsible spending habits of a glorious yesteryear does no good. Want people to buy stuff? Find a way to get them to produce stuff. I'm not against people buying new cars, by any means ... obviously when people buy new cars, the auto industry is able to maintain more jobs, keeping more people employed, giving those people money to put back into the economy, etc. But people need to buy cars with money they've earned, not with debt or a handout, and they need to buy them responsibly. The clunkers piled up at dealerships are an example of the irresponsibility of automakers and consumers that worked for a few years but helped sink the industry -- and of the mentality that helped sink the entire country. The program designed to get rid of them is more of the same.

I'm not ignorant to capitalism and economy. I'm not saying that everyone should drive their car for 500,000 miles ... clearly that would render the industry dead and would take away some of the romance of car ownership (buying a car is in a way a right of passage). People have been buying new cars for decades. They have been driving, selling, parting out, and eventually crushing, cars, too ... I have no objection to this. But wastefulness and lack of foresight created a situation in which the system stopped working ... in addition to that, the American mentality that you "deserve" to retire when you're 50 as well as a manufacturing base that has moved out of our country and into China and Mexico added fuel to the fire. It didn't stop working because a few people got shy about spending money and just need a little cutesy push.

I thought it was cool that the BMW owner had some sentimentality and a sense of "why throw it away if it works?" Maybe it's the way I was raised. There's a time to retire an item and purchase a new one, or a nice used one if you like, whether it's a car, a TV or a pair of pants. You don't throw away a good pair of jeans because they're a year old and you "deserve" a newer, more stylish pair of jeans. That mentality has worked for me as far as financial stability. When something craps out, or really becomes inadequate, I'll go out and buy a quality item from a quality store (I'll pay more to buy it from a reputable, helpful store rather than buy it from some vague cyber discount bin). I never expect the government to pay me to do it.

Sorry if my post came off as implying that everyone who doesn't drive their car to 500k is an idiot. That wasn't my point. I know enough about capitalism to know that wouldn't work.

__________________
1987 300D, arctic white/palomino--314,000 miles
1978 240D 4-speed, Euro Delivery, light ivory/bamboo--370,000 miles
2005 Jeep Liberty CRD Limited, light khaki/slate--140,000 miles
2018 Chevy Cruze diesel, 6-speed manual, satin steel metallic/kalahari--19,000 miles
1982 Peugeot 505 diesel, 4-speed manual, blue/blue, 130,000 miles
1995 S320, black/parchment--34,000 miles (Dad's car)