I just read that when (IF) the dealers get repaid for their 3500 to 4500 interest free loan to our government.

Thay have to Pay Taxes on IT.

The government givith and the government taketh away !!!

__________________
KLK, MCSE

1990 500SL

I was always taught to respect my elders.
I don't have to respect too many people anymore.

It is income, why shouldn't the dealers have to pay taxes on it?

__________________
1959 Gravely LI, 1963 Gravely L8, 1973 Gravely C12
1982 380SL
1978 450 SEL 6.9 euro restoration at 63% and climbing
1987 300 D
2005 CDI European Delivery
2006 CDI Handed down to daughter
2007 GL CDI. Wifes

I don' know. Why shouldn't the govt have to pay interest for the loan?

__________________
01 Ford Excursion Powerstroke
99 E300 Turbodiesel
91 Vette with 383 motor
05 Polaris Sportsman 800 EFI
06 Polaris Sportsman 500 EFI
03 SeaDoo GTX SC Red
03 SeaDoo GTX SC Yellow
04 Tailgator 21 ft Toy Hauler
11 Harley Davidson 883 SuperLow

It isn't income, it was a discount provided by the government. Or so advertised by the Poli's.

Shouldn't the first time homebuyers pay taxes on their 8k ?

I think that the first time homebuyers, and those given mortgage forgiveness should pay taxes on their rebate (the poli's removed that penalty). IMHO

How about at least taking away the 250k home sale exemption, at least reduce it by an amount equal to the rebate or forgiveness.

So government spin, you didn't get a 3500 or 4500 $ rebate, it was only 2 or 3 k !!

__________________
KLK, MCSE

1990 500SL

I was always taught to respect my elders.
I don't have to respect too many people anymore.

cash for clunker buyers also pay tax on the $4500 credit. It isn't free money or a discount. IRS went to a lot of trouble to explain this to the car dealers. I am doubtful many dealers actually explained it to car buyers.

Watch the youtube videos of really nice cars being destroyed for the program. Sickening waste.

Cash for refrigerators coming soon. Really.

__________________
2009 E320 Bluetec 117,000
1995 E300D 306,000 Sold
1996 Ford Taurus LX 130,000 Sold
1985 300TD Still 225,000 Sold
2016 Ford Fusion 24,900

I can't say I feel all that sorry for the dealers. It's annoying -- yet typical -- that the government is fumbling the ball and it's hurting the dealers, who understandably made their plans according to what they were promised. But at the same time, nobody at any of these dealerships did a damn thing to earn this random boost from the taxpayers of America. Nothing. A lot of them ran around kicking up their heels and bragging that they were "selling cars like candy" (real quote). So I'm not crying for them now. The smart dealerships realized they weren't going to get paid by the government and stopped participating in the program before it ended.

I don't think anybody -- the car buyers, the dealers, and most of all, the carmakers -- deserves one cent of this "stimulus" in the first place. Since they were promised it and made decisions based on that promise, they ought to get it. But quite frankly, it's appalling that they were offered it in the first place.

One of the discouraging things about this recession is that the people and businesses who made the worst mistakes are being offered the most lush bailout efforts so they can continue to make those mistakes. We're doing everything we can to try to make sure banks, automakers, etc., and consumers, can all continue to operate on an entirely backwards principles.

__________________
1987 300D, arctic white/palomino--314,000 miles
1978 240D 4-speed, Euro Delivery, light ivory/bamboo--370,000 miles
2005 Jeep Liberty CRD Limited, light khaki/slate--140,000 miles
2018 Chevy Cruze diesel, 6-speed manual, satin steel metallic/kalahari--19,000 miles
1982 Peugeot 505 diesel, 4-speed manual, blue/blue, 130,000 miles
1995 S320, black/parchment--34,000 miles (Dad's car)

Of course their gonna get paid, I've seen nothing indicating they won't. It's just gonna take a little more time than first thought due to the overwhelming volume. The program is within budget and the money has been allocated. If the dealers met the regulations, they'll get paid.

It's not all about the car company's, it's mostly about the many, many millions of people employed directly and indirectly in the auto industry.

It's very easy to demonize, whine, and cry about government actions taken when your job, world, and income hasn't suffered or collapsed. Probably makes you feel downright righteous that your opinions are the right course of actions. Put yourself on the other side of the fence and you'll see how fast opinions and outlooks can change. Have a high paying job and employer paid health benefits? The reality of what can happen sinks in immediatly when your job is lost and possibly not ever regained.

If you'd would have preferred to see the economy fall into depression without any intervention by the government, then perhaps you have a point. But without the stimulus and bailout packages, this country and much of the world economy would have collapsed. We were, and argueably still are, that close. We're not out of the woods yet, but things are starting to look up.

I'm pissed off too by the irresponsible banks and companies. But letting them fail would have been more disastrous for this country. Just image what would have happened if the FDIC had to cover the trillions of dollars in accounts they insure. That would make the bank bailouts pale in comparison to the liabilities of failed banks insured FDIC accounts. Do you understand the consequences of what another "rush on banks" would have done to the American economy and people? I don't think you're seeing the whole picture, but rather focusing on your indignation of the government.

The vast majority of the bailouts are not grants, they are "loans" and they will be paid back with interest. This is a fact that so often gets overlooked in the zeal to demonize and politicalize the governments action.

__________________
Question Authority before it Questions you.

I'd suggest you read the federal reserve act.... According to that, the taxpayers are on the hook for any screw ups that the major banks make. The fed would then print money and loan it to the 'people' for them to give to the banks that were failing... The banks have no responsibility to pay it back, they can just keep doing what they're doing...
The banks that are now in the media for screwing up have in fact been doing this for over 30 years if not more..... This problem is not new.... Who benefits from these actions??
How about the Rockefeller family who own the largest stake in the federal reserve bank?? How about the banks that get free money that you have to pay the loans for??
The Rockefeller control a stake in these failing banks as well, making sure that screwups get put in charge so that they can keep lining their pockets... It costs them NOTHING to write a check to give a loan to the 'people' so they can bail out said banks.... Mean time, they assure a legally required source of income...
And before anyone tells me I"m wrong, they had better read the ENTIRE Federal Reserve Act and look up every word in a legal dictionary.... Just like I did to come to this conclusion....

__________________
All it takes for evil to prevail is for good men to stand by and do nothing.

Too many people tip toe through life, never attempting or doing anything great, hoping to make it safely to death... Bob Proctor

'95 S320 LWB
'87 300SDL
'04 E500 wagon 4matic

It is 3500 or 4500 that the government is paying, instead of having the customer pay it.

Had the customer paid it, would the dealer have to pay taxes on it?

I like how the government spins this as stimilus, and projects the benefits.

They are thinking that the economy is a closed system, and that this was fresh money into the system. My suspcion is that consumers just diverted money from one purchase to another. So they bought a car--the question is, what did they not buy that they would have if the gov. didn't give them incentives to buy a car? Who were the losers here? How is the gov. going to makeit right for them?
How has this affected used car values, and buyers? How much loss on that side?

__________________
1982 300SD " Wotan" ..On the road as of Jan 8, 2007 with Historic Tags

That is a pretty big "if". The salesman for the dealership we buy our pickups from was in last week and said they are waiting on over $280K in reimbursement payments. The paperwork and reporting is a nightmare and it's still virtually impossible to do anything for the program via the 'net. They actually stopped doing CARS transactions 3 weeks ago because of the effect on their cash flow. They were glad to finally see the program come to an end. The only positive was that they were able to unload some current inventory. The fear is that it was just at the expense of future sales. Everything was just concentrated into one crazy period. I'm sure they are not alone in that feeling.

__________________

1980 300TD-China Blue/Blue MBTex-2nd Owner, 107K (Alt Blau) OBK #15
'06 Chevy Tahoe Z71 (for the wife & 4 kids, current mule) '03 Honda Odyssey (son #1's ride, reluctantly) '99 GMC Suburban (255K+ miles, semi-retired mule) 21' SeaRay Seville (summer escape pod)

I'm so shocked something like that could happen.

__________________
01 Ford Excursion Powerstroke
99 E300 Turbodiesel
91 Vette with 383 motor
05 Polaris Sportsman 800 EFI
06 Polaris Sportsman 500 EFI
03 SeaDoo GTX SC Red
03 SeaDoo GTX SC Yellow
04 Tailgator 21 ft Toy Hauler
11 Harley Davidson 883 SuperLow

How to Avoid the ‘Cash for Clunkers’ Snarl
August 19, 2009 11:42 AM ET | Rick Newman

When car dealers start doing business with the federal government, whaddya expect? Perfect harmony?
Of course not. Several weeks into the "cash for clunkers" program it turns out that delivering a couple of billion dollars worth of rebates to hundreds of thousands of car buyers can generate a few flat tires. The Department of Transportation's latest update on the Car Allowance Rebate System shows that the government has received applications for about 412,000 rebates totaling $1.7 billion. But so far, the feds have approved only a fraction of those, leaving dealers furious.

The Transportation Department won't say exactly what the rejection rate is, but in an Automotive News survey, some dealers said up to 80 percent of their rebate applications had been rejected. Some dealers are waiting for payments totaling as much as $200,000, the survey found. About 13 percent of dealers said they've suspended clunker deals because of red tape and concern about getting paid by the government.

Prediction: They'll be back. Buyers, meanwhile, should make sure the dealer isn't putting the burden of obtaining a rebate on them. And those still looking for a clunker deal should be able to find plenty of dealers continuing to play along.

It's obvious that the National Highway Transportation Safety Administration, the agency administering CARS, has been overwhelmed by the popularity of a program that has surprised just about everybody, including the masterminds in Congress who had to triple the funding a week after clunkers kicked in. NHTSA initially detailed 225 people to processing those 400,000 claims; it's in the process of assigning 1,000 more to the program to help speed up the rebates.

To put this in context, there are only about 635 full-time workers at the entire agency, and their principal job is to set safety standards, perform crash tests, conduct research, and regulate the automakers. So NHTSA is swelling to nearly twice its regular size—by borrowing workers from other agencies—to manage a program that will come and go within six weeks. I guess they'll get back to worrying about safety after Labor Day, when CARS expires.

NHTSA also has to make sure nobody's claiming that a rusty tricycle constitutes a clunker worth $4,500 toward a new ride. Don't get me wrong, I'm not suggesting that anybody would ever attempt to take advantage of wanton congressional spending and defraud the U.S. government. But do we trust car dealers and their customers enough to go by the honor system? Many of the rejected clunker claims are being sent back to dealers because of paperwork snafus like unsigned sales agreements, mismatched serial numbers, and forms that fail to include the make, model, and year of the clunker being traded in. Hmmmm. Those are all harmless mistakes, no doubt. But if people at NHTSA weren't eyeballing every application, chances are that there would be a newspaper headline somewhere declaring "Man Gets Clunker Rebate for Matchbox Car." It still might happen.

Dealer groups have been meeting with NHTSA to straighten out the foul-ups and make sure their own members are following procedures and playing by the rules. Odds are this will all get sorted out soon, the pace of rebates will pick up, and dissident dealers will quiet down and rejoin the program.

Meanwhile, delayed rebates have caused tension between some dealers and their customers. Just like money to ruin a beautiful relationship.

The government has gotten complaints about a few dealers who seem to be putting their customers on the hook in case there's a problem with the CARS rebate coming through. Now, in a negotiated deal it's always a good idea to put the financial risk on the other guy. Except that in the CARS program, dealers aren't allowed to do that. Banned practices include forcing the buyer to leave a deposit for the amount of the clunker rebate, in case the government doesn't cough it up, and forcing the buyer to sign an agreement to pay the dealer the rebate amount if the government rejects the application. In general, the burden is on the dealer, not the car buyer, to dicker with the feds and make sure the paperwork is correct (unless you lie on the application, which could invalidate the whole deal). Consumers can see the complete list of rules at Cars.gov (look under the FAQ), and buyers can report suspicious dealer activity to the government by calling 866-CAR-7891.

The popularity of the program has also caught manufacturers by surprise, one reason they've run short of some vehicles that clunker traders want to buy. Some dealers have sold out of models like the Jeep Patriot and the Ford Focus, for instance. Buyers were left wondering whether they can still get a clunker deal when the next shipment arrives or should pick another vehicle. So the government has tweaked the rules to include new cars that aren't on dealer lots but are in the production pipeline. As long as the dealer can identify an actual vehicle and its vehicle identification number, or VIN, the clunker deal can go through, even if the car is delivered after the program expires. Buyers need to make sure the VIN of the car they ultimately take home is the same as the VIN on the original sales agreement and watch out for any other kind of bait-and-switch.

If the nearest dealer has bailed out of the program, look for another. Despite the problems, there are plenty of reasons for dealers to stay involved with CARS until it expires. With the government subsidizing the cost of so many new cars, the program is obviously boosting sales. But it's also drawing other shoppers who end up buying a car even though they don't qualify for a clunker deal, and it's generating business in dealers' service departments as well. And with many buyers who qualified for a clunker deal already enjoying their new ride, the frenzy is starting to subside. That should give the government time to catch up and placate the dealers. A little haggling is just part of the process.
http://www.usnews.com/blogs/flowchart/2009/08/19/how-to-avoid-the-cash-for-clunkers-snarl.html

Clever. So instead of hiring 1,000 temps, NHTSA is going to assign every employee, then hire 365 temps to the job? I don't think so.
Not to mention, I wonder how many safety standards need to be set in these 6 weeks. How many regulations, how much research, how many crash tests. I had no idea this was such a busy time for NHTSA.

__________________
1984 300TD

So income taxes are like a new concept for you?