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-   -   Another Idiot Czar That Has To Go (http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/off-topic-discussion/260808-another-idiot-czar-has-go.html)

aklim 09-09-2009 05:09 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DieselAddict (Post 2289881)
I agree. We just probably disagree on the dosage.
And the long term ramifications of govt meddling. I do agree that in the short term, there could be positive results but from what I can see, govt intervention tends to give the guy a fish so he eats today but not teach him how to fish so he can be set for food for the rest of his life.

Honus 09-09-2009 05:13 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by JollyRoger (Post 2289979)
...There is an ugly, ugly racist undercurrent to a lot of this, especially the Birther crap...
Undeniably true, IMHO. Not to say that anyone on this forum is motivated by racism, but I have no doubt that racism is part of the opposition to Obama. How could it be otherwise? That's the society we inhabit.

aklim 09-09-2009 05:26 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by JollyRoger (Post 2289979)
Obama's speech pretty much said "Ask not what your country can do for you ......" How radical. How unAmerican. No wonder the righties were so incensed.
Who said that? JFK? And his VP came out with "The Great Society" programs. Yep. Ask not what your country can do for you for it will figure a way to make leaches of you with programs designed to buy your vote.

DieselAddict 09-09-2009 06:44 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by aklim (Post 2290002)
Who said that? JFK? And his VP came out with "The Great Society" programs. Yep. Ask not what your country can do for you for it will figure a way to make leaches of you with programs designed to buy your vote.
We're all leeches to some extent, some more than others. That's the nature of living in a society. If you want to be 100% responsible for your own well-being, you'd need to live somewhere in the woods by yourself and gather your own food.

Billybob 09-09-2009 07:00 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by JollyRoger (Post 2289979)
There is an ugly, ugly racist undercurrent to a lot of this, especially the Birther crap. Why am I not surprised they went after another black guy in Obama's government with a bunch of trumped up baloney ?
Birther = ugly, ugly, racist crap = Bad
Truther = bunch of trumped up baloney = Good

Any more words of wisdom?

Hey, how's that Gallup-Obama Job Approval Poll you used to love so much working out for you lately? Latest three day average - 51%

aklim 09-09-2009 07:01 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DieselAddict (Post 2290046)
We're all leeches to some extent, some more than others. That's the nature of living in a society. If you want to be 100% responsible for your own well-being, you'd need to live somewhere in the woods by yourself and gather your own food.
I think we'll call that the "DA Somalia Argument". If you don't want govt intervention, go live in Somalia. Don't want leaches, go live in the woods. I think you know full well that the leaches we are talking about are ones that contribute nothing while sucking the blood out of the victim. So no. I don't think that is the nature of living in society. I don't consider people who contribute leaches. People living on welfare, yes. People wanting stuff they cannot afford, yes. People who pay their way, no.

Billybob 09-09-2009 07:04 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Honus (Post 2289994)
I have no doubt that racism is part of the opposition to Obama. How could it be otherwise? That's the society we inhabit.
No doubt racism is part of the support for Obama? How could it be otherwise? That's the society we inhabit.

aklim 09-09-2009 07:06 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Billybob (Post 2290055)
Hey, how's that Gallup-Obama Job Approval Poll you used to love so much working out for you lately? Latest three day average - 51%
He's been pretty silent about that one when he used to be touting it left, right, up, down, center and sideways.

However, in reality, I think part of it was that people had unreasonable expectations of Obama and when it didn't work out, well, the numbers dropped.

tankdriver 09-09-2009 07:25 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Txjake (Post 2289771)
I have objections to anyone un-vetted by Congress that have positions of power over parts of our country, especially those whose politics are too radical to pass muster.
In this country, the executive branch is not subordinate to the legislative branch.
Second, there is no prohibition in the Constitution of radical positions.

Quote:
Bush has nothing to do with it. The same, tired-ass rhetoric over & over again; "Bush". Not relevant, what is going on now is going on now; what happened in a previous administration, right or wrong has no bearing on the present. It is akin to a child saying "Johhny jumped off the bridge, why can't I?"
The previous administration, having the same operational rules as the current administration, is an excellent example. If Bush can hire people, then Obama can hire people. Are you suggesting Bush should not have been allowed to hire people? Where were your objections, then?

DieselAddict 09-09-2009 07:53 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by aklim (Post 2290056)
I think we'll call that the "DA Somalia Argument". If you don't want govt intervention, go live in Somalia. Don't want leaches, go live in the woods. I think you know full well that the leaches we are talking about are ones that contribute nothing while sucking the blood out of the victim. So no. I don't think that is the nature of living in society. I don't consider people who contribute leaches. People living on welfare, yes. People wanting stuff they cannot afford, yes. People who pay their way, no.
You actually surprised me. I thought you were going to pull out your "Bubba Rape Argument". Notice that I said "leeches to some extent". I wasn't just talking about the pure leeches of which there are few. Most of us provide some benefit to the society by being productive while at the same time "leeching off" the work of others. Unless you are in the top tax bracket through a legit job and actually using the tax bracket to pay your taxes, you are a leech too.

aklim 09-09-2009 08:18 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DieselAddict (Post 2290083)
Notice that I said "leeches to some extent". I wasn't just talking about the pure leeches of which there are few. Most of us provide some benefit to the society by being productive while at the same time "leeching off" the work of others. Unless you are in the top tax bracket through a legit job and actually using the tax bracket to pay your taxes, you are a leech too.
I noticed. My point is that if the balance sheet is negative, you are a leech. IOW, if you depend on others for your well being but are unable to pay for it, you are a leech. If you spend $500 but earn $499, you are a leech. And yes, that is what the govt programs are doing. Making you more and more dependent on someone else providing services for you. What they do is remove the incentive for hard work by lessening the sting of being in the "have not" class.

DieselAddict 09-09-2009 09:35 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by aklim (Post 2290100)
I noticed. My point is that if the balance sheet is negative, you are a leech. IOW, if you depend on others for your well being but are unable to pay for it, you are a leech. If you spend $500 but earn $499, you are a leech. And yes, that is what the govt programs are doing. Making you more and more dependent on someone else providing services for you. What they do is remove the incentive for hard work by lessening the sting of being in the "have not" class.
That's one way to look at it, but it's not the complete picture. Mainly it overlooks what the accused leech has already paid in. Just because the person currently takes out more than he puts in doesn't mean his lifetime balance sheet is negative. Also spending is not necessarily so cut and dry like you make it to be. Say you supported the Iraq War. Where do you think the 1 billion or whatever it has cost has come from? Disproportionately from the top tax payers (which I assume you're not) and the deficit. So in this case you are a leech too.

aklim 09-09-2009 11:43 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DieselAddict (Post 2290140)
That's one way to look at it, but it's not the complete picture. Mainly it overlooks what the accused leech has already paid in. Just because the person currently takes out more than he puts in doesn't mean his lifetime balance sheet is negative.

Also spending is not necessarily so cut and dry like you make it to be. Say you supported the Iraq War. Where do you think the 1 billion or whatever it has cost has come from? Disproportionately from the top tax payers (which I assume you're not) and the deficit. So in this case you are a leech too.
Well, I suppose if you want to talk of a billionaire who became broke, sure. Again, I am not talking about someone like you who lost his job for 6 months and found another one later. Take the teenage moms. Do you think they have paid much into the system, if at all?

So perhaps we could work out some sort of compensation for the rich since they pay more of the bill than we do. How about giving them a pass for certain crimes? Bill Gates should be able to get away with murder then but the street bum should be summarily executed? Someone who is middle class should have say life in prison? All based on a sliding scale? Not sure I want to buy that "Judge not lest ye be judged" scheme.

cmac2012 09-10-2009 02:40 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Txjake (Post 2289771)
I have objections to anyone un-vetted by Congress that have positions of power over parts of our country, especially those whose politics are too radical to pass muster. Bush has nothing to do with it. The same, tired-ass rhetoric over & over again; "Bush". Not relevant, what is going on now is going on now; what happened in a previous administration, right or wrong has no bearing on the present. It is akin to a child saying "Johny jumped off the bridge, why can't I?"

The country might be ready for change, but I don't think that means change influenced by non-elected radicals with political views so far out on the spectrum that most of America thinks they are crazy or evil....:rolleyes:
People gave Carter crap, in part, because of his micro-managing, for not delegating more. That's part of what the demon czars do. Nixon first instituted the concept - Reagan improved on it.

On Bush, point is that much beloved Rr Presdents appointed Czars right and left with little notice but no the O man is Lenin going retrograde and appointing Czars.

I will say that some of the remarks of this guy in the OP are a bit much but fact is, our money would not be stable w/o a good and stable govt. Oil companies, for example, would have a much tougher time doing bidness overseas w/o the help and umbrella of our massive military engine, an engine that doesn't come cheap.

cmac2012 09-10-2009 02:56 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by JollyRoger (Post 2289955)
When has context ever been an issue for the Beckbot crowd? Chairman Beck constantly chortles on about "Civilian National Security Force" being some Gestapo when any idiot can read the speech Obama made and conclude he was talking about the Peace Corps. This is just more of the same kind of tiresome anti-logic coming from the increasingly unhinged American right wing. I think they finally went over the edge with the public with the "President can't indoctrinate my child with Negro Communism" meme this week, people are finally starting to get wise to this endless crap from these increasingly irrational extremists who can't even read a Birth Certificate.
And the Rrs are practically on a quest to purge their ranks of anyone with any common sense. Senators Snow and Collins of Maine and Sen. Lugar regularly get the RINO label thrown at them. Snow and Lugar strike me as two of the most reasonable and insightful people in govt.

But the Rrs want to move closer to obscurity by purging them and other non-extremists from their ranks. That dude Stephen Moore of the Club For Growth (remember the 'take his tattoo piercing, Volvo driving, Latte drinking stuff back to Vermont, where it belongs?' - CFG ad) agitates for driving the RINOs out. Dude is twisted up pretty tight.


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