Originally Posted by buffa98 (Post 2354351)

Later on after they had time to analyze the content of all those calls, it turns out they weren't calling up to ask about joining the military - they were calling to ask how to legally avoid the draft they were sure was soon to follow. The numbers of those volunteering for military service barely changed.

At that, for a while at least, Shrub did man up the draft boards and have them ready to go in case recruitment totally dried up.

And those already in the military got nailed with a "stop loss" order - what they referred to as a "back door draft" - they weren't allowed to get out when their enlistments were up and basically told they would be kept on active duty until further notice.

Absolutly not true. There was a surge in volunteers to all branches after 9-11. I was on active duty at that time and knew several recruiters. There was never a stop gap issued unless it was for a critical job.(Navy)
Also at that time people were being asked to take early retirement cash incentives to get out etc....
Falls back to if you dont know what you are talking about....

Originally Posted by Chas H (Post 2354458)

You need to study up on the subject of "stop loss"
"Currently, the Army is the only service that uses the stop-loss program. As of January, 13,217 soldiers had tours extended under the stop-loss policy."
http://www.cnn.com/2009/US/03/18/pentagon.stoploss.ending/index.html

Originally Posted by cmac2012 (Post 2354192)

It's clear that you've endured a great deal as a result of your service. I'm sure you've got many complaints about the war that are far more valid than mine.

I've never gone out of my way to give any vet crap about anything. But after 30 - 40 years of being given crap of my own, directly or indirectly, about being some kind of draft dodging coward, I'm disinclined to not speak frankly about my end of the experience.

The war struck me as bizarre and pointless. No way was I going to take the chance of being stuck under some nimrod dweeb like William Calley ordering me to slaughter peasants. Or Westmoreland. The guy turned my stomach.

It's a wide chasm in American between the pro and anti Vietnam war crowd. It's very much an issue still in play.

Originally Posted by cmac2012 (Post 2354192)

But after 30 - 40 years of being given crap of my own, directly or indirectly, about being some kind of draft dodging coward, I'm disinclined to not speak frankly about my end of the experience.

The war struck me as bizarre and pointless. No way was I going to take the chance of being stuck under some nimrod dweeb like William Calley ordering me to slaughter peasants. Or Westmoreland. The guy turned my stomach.

Originally Posted by cmac2012 (Post 2353694)

I never so much as insulted a vet in or out of uniform but I also believed the war was insanely stupid as did my father who had been a sergeant Major in the Pacific theater in WW2. He said he would help me stay out of it if that was my choice and it was. Didn't need his help as it turned out but his support was certainly welcome. My draft # was 12 in 1972 and I ended up working as a conscientious objector at a Salvation Army youth club.

My angry man pal Chris Bellicose seems to think it funny that the experience would have had an effect on my life. This should be a surprise? Military service is a major coming of age ritual in the US, something I looked forward to and then when it came my time, the war from hell beckoned. Of course it was a signature event in my life.

Swift boaters and our Jzjzjzjzjz buddy clearly had a large part of their world view shaped by Vietnam but apparently that is good and proper. Those of us who declined to participate in pointless mass murder are, of course, merely losers.

Originally Posted by cmac2012 (Post 2353697)

Cry me a river.

Originally Posted by Billybob (Post 2354584)

Maybe you should take this opportunity to set your record straight. You gamed the system to exempt yourself from the chance of personal harm by fraudulently claiming Conscientious Objector status. Now you want to have others believe this was somehow a noble act on your part and not the cowardly self-interest that you bemoan people for 30-40 years have rightfully recognized it to be?

On March 8, 1971 the US Supreme Court had already rendered its decision on the constitutionality of the “selective conscientious objection” which you perversely rely upon as your defense.

GILLETTE v. UNITED STATES, 401 U.S. 437 (1971) Holds that,” The exemption for those who oppose "participation in war in any form" applies to those who oppose participating in all war and not to those who object to participation in a particular war only, even if the latter objection is religious in character.”

http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/scripts/getcase.pl?court=US&vol=401&invol=437

You have repeatedly made postings regarding your beliefs regarding other wars and your alleged willingness to participate in them and repeatedly confessed the nature of your objections to the Vietnam War! Your own statements convict you plain and simple, you’ve stated that had your time been the American Revolution, WWII or Afghanistan you would have chosen to serve and fight but in actuality when your time came to stand on principle you did not. You’re not opposed to all wars, only the war that would have actually put you at risk. How does that make someone anything other than “a draft dodging coward”?

You state, “Military service is a major coming of age ritual in the US, something I looked forward to and then when it came my time, the war from hell beckoned. Of course it was a signature event in my life.”

“But after 30 - 40 years of being given crap of my own, directly or indirectly, about being some kind of draft dodging coward, I'm disinclined to not speak frankly about my end of the experience.”

Maybe now is the time to reflect and accept that by your own admissions you are not in fact nor ever where ,”a conscientious objector” and abandon your claims that your actions where motivated buy anything but self preservation.

Living that lie of your “signature event in my life” for 37 years has misshapen you; of necessity you’ve constructed a world view to rationalize disgraceful conduct as virtue.

Your response to those who accepted the call to sacrificed life and limb, where you responded with scheme and deceit is:


Shame on you.

Originally Posted by 10fords (Post 2354682)

Well said. I find it disturbing when those who have never served have the gall to insult those who have. When someone puts their life on the line in the service of their country(regardless of whether history proves the war to be moral or necessary) they should be treated with nothing but respect.

Originally Posted by guage (Post 2354871)

What a poltroon, I hope his sponsors take notice and he withers away and dies in his time slot!

Originally Posted by daveuz (Post 2355023)

You are referring to Bill OReilly when he accused American Soldiers of war crimes(twice)..... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O2KU02lsfH8&feature=PlayList&p=3F883C2CE20E94BF&playnext=1&playnext_from=PL&index=1

Originally Posted by guage (Post 2354871)

What a poltroon, I hope his sponsors take notice and he withers away and dies in his time slot!

Originally Posted by guage (Post 2355048)

I have NO idea what you're gibbering about, I'm addressing the original topic, just so YOU now, know!