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-   -   What car (under $22,000 MSRP) excites you? (http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/off-topic-discussion/266940-what-car-under-%2422-000-msrp-excites-you.html)

MS Fowler 12-07-2009 06:53 AM

What car (under $22,000 MSRP) excites you?
 
I'm a life-long self-professed "car guy". My passion extends back into the 1950's so its been quite a while.
I have been away from the new car scene for a while. Part of my personality is to "have a plan", in mind for various situations. I just realized that there is no new car in the under $22,000 or so price range that really excites me. There are a lot of decent sedans, and the definition of "decent" makes for a MUCH better car today then 20 or more years ago. "Quirky" doesn't even exist in this homogenized marketplace. Where is today's Peugeot 504, or Citreon 2CV?
So I thought I'd ask my friends here.

If you had to replace a family sedan type of vehicle today and the budget was $22,000 MSRP or so, what would you look for? Basic requirements are true 4/5 passenger capacity and 4 doors--getting into the back seat of a 2 door for the people I might have a passengers would be cruel. Is there anything that is really exceptional?

LUVMBDiesels 12-07-2009 07:54 AM

Subaru Legacy...


for 20k you get AWD and some decent features.
I would also say the Pontiac G8 is a good deal But at $28k it is a little over the budget.

Hatterasguy 12-07-2009 08:38 AM

Since its a family vehical that rules out a truck. I'd go with a used Mercedes, probably an E320/350 since thats their bread and butter model.

TheDon 12-07-2009 08:43 AM

Something Lotus flavored.

Jim B. 12-07-2009 08:52 AM

2010 Subaru Outback AWD
 
The Basic model of the 2010 Subaru AWD Outback, omes in at:

$22,995 MSRP and Invoice is $21,663. Out here you could get a brand new one for invoice, plus about 10% more for tax, license, and doc fees, "out the door", on a purchase. (Not a lease)


That's the basic one with steelies and plastic hubcaps. Loaded with moonnroof, leather, SAT NAV and all the other bells and whistles will add another $10,000.


I drove one with the standard CVT transmission and the Hill Holder, new this year, and wasn't that much impressed, compared wth my 2008, that only has 3 more payments to go.


It looks like a crossover now, a LOT, too much, like the Hyundai Santa Fe, (cheap!) and will continue to enjoy the second to last year of my station wagon looking one.

daveuz 12-07-2009 09:09 AM

http://suzukiauto.com/sx4_crossover/ Well below your price point at $16,849 manual trans . All Wheel drive , Great warranty( 7 year 100K drive train) and low interest rates. One of the few cars with a real timing chain. Link to their Forum. http://www.sx4club.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=17

E150GT 12-07-2009 09:18 AM

The Mazda6 is a sexy sedan. If only it were AWD or RWD. I would have bought one, but I didnt want to spend that much so I bought a Mazda3.

Zeus 12-07-2009 09:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MS Fowler (Post 2355282)
If you had to replace a family sedan type of vehicle today and the budget was $22,000 MSRP or so, what would you look for? Basic requirements are true 4/5 passenger capacity and 4 doors--getting into the back seat of a 2 door for the people I might have a passengers would be cruel. Is there anything that is really exceptional?

Personally, I'd grab a used E55. That's just me though...;)

Pavka007 12-07-2009 09:32 AM

You never specified NEW or USED, so I would go with the local dealer selling 2002 E430 4matic, dark blue over tan leather, heated seats, navigation...the whole 9 yards, only 62600 miles, full Mercedes Dealer Service history (60K services performed on10/28/09 with 61126 miles) for....$11750 out of the door....I've talked to him :D

daveuz 12-07-2009 09:42 AM

<LI class=quote>"The all-wheel-drive model is perhaps the best buy because it's one of the least-expensive vehicles available offering this level of all-weather capability." -- New Car Test Drive<LI class="quote quote-pos">"The 2009 Suzuki SX4 Crossover offers active-lifestylers a practical, comfortable and affordable front or all-wheel-drive utility vehicle with impressive looks and loads of features. ... The well-appointed SX4 Crossover has a terrific warranty and merits serious consideration from anyone shopping for either a space-efficient front-drive hatchback, such as the Honda Fit, Nissan Versa, or Scion xB, or a true all-wheel-drive crossover utility vehicle, such as the Jeep Compass or Nissan Rogue." -- Kelley Blue Book

pj67coll 12-07-2009 09:47 AM

Why 22K as the cut off? Why not 20K? Can't honestly say there is any new vehicle that interestes me these days really. I guess I'm starting to get curmudgeonly in my old age.

- Peter.

Craig 12-07-2009 09:58 AM

Nothing new (for any price) is very intersting. For $20k I could buy an interesting 70/80s Benz. I would probably go shopping for a W109 6.3, but I doubt I could find a good one for the price.

suginami 12-07-2009 10:34 AM

I'd get a Jetta TDI sedan. MSRP comes in at $21,190

The Swede 12-07-2009 10:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by suginami (Post 2355364)
I'd get a Jetta TDI sedan. MSRP comes in at $21,190

Ditto. That's a lot of new car for the money.

Graplr 12-07-2009 11:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MS Fowler (Post 2355282)
If you had to replace a family sedan type of vehicle today and the budget was $22,000 MSRP or so...

22k and me? I would go for a couple Mercedes diesels. Probably a 123/124 300TD, a 300CD and perhaps a 300/350 SDL. Buying those three cars I would still have around 12k left over (average $3300/car). Then I would go look for an Excursion with a 7.3. :D Perhaps someone could persuade me into a 95-99 Mercedes diesel instead of 2 of the other cars and still have money for the 7.3.

You asked what I would do! ;)

The Swede 12-07-2009 11:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Graplr (Post 2355383)
22k and me? I would go for a couple Mercedes diesels. Probably a 123/124 300TD, a 300CD and perhaps a 300/350 SDL. Buying those three cars I would still have around 12k left over (average $3300/car). Then I would go look for an Excursion with a 7.3. :D Perhaps someone could persuade me into a 95-99 Mercedes diesel instead of 2 of the other cars and still have money for the 7.3.

You asked what I would do! ;)

Mine's still for sale!! :D However, it's going for a PPI tomorrow (Hopefully beat most of the snow).

Graplr 12-07-2009 11:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Swede (Post 2355384)
Mine's still for sale!! :D However, it's going for a PPI tomorrow (Hopefully beat most of the snow).

Yes, I know. :D The question was IF I had 22k to spend on cars...I don't have 22k to spend on cars right now. :o

PPI? Pre-purchase Inspection? Got a serious buyer? Good luck!

The Swede 12-07-2009 11:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Graplr (Post 2355390)
Yes, I know. :D The question was IF I had 22k to spend on cars...I don't have 22k to spend on cars right now. :o

PPI? Pre-purchase Inspection? Got a serious buyer? Good luck!


Thanks and yep, a Texas buyer. Her Mpls-based friend looked at it a few weeks ago, then got back in touch with me.

pj67coll 12-07-2009 11:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Craig (Post 2355349)
Nothing new (for any price) is very intersting. For $20k I could buy an interesting 70/80s Benz. I would probably go shopping for a W109 6.3, but I doubt I could find a good one for the price.

Hell. You and I agree on something. Who'd a guessed. Right now there's a real nice looking 77 450SLC sitting down the road a little ways from me for 5 G's. Damm my penury.

- Peter.

daveuz 12-07-2009 11:52 AM

Swede , this may interest you . I have no idea if they give a good review or not. Looks fun though. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FvKt2WsNngY&feature=related

Craig 12-07-2009 12:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pj67coll (Post 2355417)
Hell. You and I agree on something. Who'd a guessed. Right now there's a real nice looking 77 450SLC sitting down the road a little ways from me for 5 G's. Damm my penury.

- Peter.

That does sound interesting.

pj67coll 12-07-2009 12:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Craig (Post 2355446)
That does sound interesting.

http://phoenix.craigslist.org/wvl/cto/1498834595.html

- Peter.

MS Fowler 12-07-2009 06:08 PM

Thanks for the responses.

Yes, I neglected to say that it would have to be "new" with a good warranty. If this happened I'd be replacing the car of SWMBO, and it must be problem-free, and an automatic--or its more headaches for me.
I really love my 300SD, but that would not be acceptable.

Hatterasguy 12-07-2009 06:17 PM

In that case a Honda Accord.

TylerH860 12-07-2009 06:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MS Fowler (Post 2355634)
Thanks for the responses.

Yes, I neglected to say that it would have to be "new" with a good warranty. If this happened I'd be replacing the car of SWMBO, and it must be problem-free, and an automatic--or its more headaches for me.
I really love my 300SD, but that would not be acceptable.

Subaru WRX ($24995 MSRP)
VW Golf GTI ($23489 MSRP
Chevy Camaro ($23880 MSRP)
Ford Mustang ($20995 MSRP)
Subaru Impreza ($17495 MSRP)

daveuz 12-07-2009 09:44 PM

Poking around on the Suzuki site I see they have 0% financing for 60 mo or 2.9% and a rebate on the SX4 Crossover till Jan 4. 7 year 100K warranty AWD with six airbags and good options for less than 20K with 0% apr. Hard to beat that deal. http://suzukiauto.com/

Nate Stanley 12-07-2009 11:06 PM

check out my sig:
 
Ok, I think Benzes are wonderful--but we liked our first '09 Scion XB so much that we added another one to the stable. These cars are fun to drive, 35ft turning diameter, plenty of room for 4 and even 5, and lots of standard equipment. Plus, CR just rated the Scion line as more dependable than Honda or Toyota.

I test drove an '08 with 57,000 miles on it and it was every bit as tight as our brand new one, so build quality RE the running gear and steering looks good for several years.

At least give it a try, you just might like it. MSRP is 17,545 for the base model that comes with power steering, windows, cruise, AT with sequential shift, A/C that is freezing cold.

They use the 2.4L DOHC 4-banger with variable valve timing that really comes alive between 4-6K, making it plenty powerful for freeway merges.

Engine servicability is excellent. The starter is ON TOP of the engine-when was the last time you saw something that easy to replace?

The first 2 services (5 and 10K) are free.

Minuses? somewhat plasticy interior, and the ride is a little choppy, but considering its short wheelbase that's undestandable.

Give it a try, you just might like it!

Crazy_Nate 12-07-2009 11:08 PM

What's a E320 CDI go for nowadays? :)

GregoryV022 12-08-2009 01:15 AM

1955 mercedes 300 Adenauer.

yes i know where one is for under 22K. im keeping it a secret untill i can afford it, or pass it up.

MS Fowler 12-08-2009 06:49 AM

Other than the Subaru and Scion, for which I see a little passion, the other recommendations seem to be just recommendations for a "decent" car.
I admit that the general level of cars is pretty good----just yesterday I read a R&T from 1978 with a test on econoboxes and 0-60 were in the 14 to 18 second range.
So, no doubt, the cars are better. However, while raising the level, they also seem to have engineered out anything that makes them exciting.
Alfas were always a little quirky, but some people really loved Alfas. My Pug was definitely quirky ( headlight swich where the turn signals should be!), but the most comfortable car ever. The same could be said the Fiats, and the original Mini, even the original Mustang.
Where are the cars ( in this price range) that get the adreneline flowing?

Angel 12-08-2009 07:17 AM

I'm guessing that your blood is just too poor for a adrenaline-producing car (thats ok, see what I drive =)

Cars have achieved so much in the realms of fuel economy, power and reliability, but $22k just isnt much. $22k will barely buy you a base-model minivan.

I remember when a new econobox was advertised on TV for $9000 (or less), and I am just old enough to remember watching the Space Shuttle Challenger explosion when I was in 6th grade... I cant imagine seeing the sticker price on a Porsche 356 ($3k back in the day ?)

If you must have a warranty - look at some manuf's CPO programs - If mazda had a CPO Miata on the lot, it might fit your price range. Else, if you want adrenaline for $22k, you are going used. Wife and I are in my 30's and she is a stay at home mom. 1 income simply isnt enough to have a nice car anymore (although I imagine that you are at a different place in your life than I)

-John

daveuz 12-08-2009 10:45 AM

What about a Fiat Sedici? The US version minus the fiat emblems does not have the diesel yet but it does have a well built 150Hp gas motor. Design was handled by Giogetto Giugiaro's Italdesign studio. Google it. http://www.fiat.co.uk/showroom/?id=4804#showroom/sedici

MS Fowler 12-08-2009 06:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by daveuz (Post 2355965)
What about a Fiat Sedici? The US version minus the fiat emblems does not have the diesel yet but it does have a well built 150Hp gas motor. Design was handled by Giogetto Giugiaro's Italdesign studio. Google it. http://www.fiat.co.uk/showroom/?id=4804#showroom/sedici

Will Fiat be bringing some models to the US, soon?

daveuz 12-08-2009 06:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by daveuz (Post 2355321)
http://suzukiauto.com/sx4_crossover/ Well below your price point at $16,849 manual trans . All Wheel drive , Great warranty( 7 year 100K drive train) and low interest rates. One of the few cars with a real timing chain. Link to their Forum. http://www.sx4club.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=17

I have already posted a few links to it in this thread. See post 6 10 20 and 26.

Pavka007 12-08-2009 09:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by daveuz (Post 2355965)
What about a Fiat Sedici? The US version minus the fiat emblems does not have the diesel yet but it does have a well built 150Hp gas motor. Design was handled by Giogetto Giugiaro's Italdesign studio. Google it. http://www.fiat.co.uk/showroom/?id=4804#showroom/sedici


Sedici was never produced with 150 BHP. This is a Suzuki badged as Fiat. The only gas engine is 1.6/120BHP Suzuki, the other one is 1.9 Multijet Diesel from Fiat and from 2009 2.0L Multijet Diesel;)
For US market ONLY they are using 2.0L gas engine with 143 BHP. The rest of the world is with 1.6 Gasoline and 2 X Diesel engines.

PaulC 12-08-2009 09:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MS Fowler (Post 2355282)
I'm a life-long self-professed "car guy". My passion extends back into the 1950's so its been quite a while.
I have been away from the new car scene for a while. Part of my personality is to "have a plan", in mind for various situations. I just realized that there is no new car in the under $22,000 or so price range that really excites me. There are a lot of decent sedans, and the definition of "decent" makes for a MUCH better car today then 20 or more years ago. "Quirky" doesn't even exist in this homogenized marketplace. Where is today's Peugeot 504, or Citreon 2CV?
So I thought I'd ask my friends here.

If you had to replace a family sedan type of vehicle today and the budget was $22,000 MSRP or so, what would you look for? Basic requirements are true 4/5 passenger capacity and 4 doors--getting into the back seat of a 2 door for the people I might have a passengers would be cruel. Is there anything that is really exceptional?

Jack up your budget a few hundred dollars and you could get a Honda Civic Si sedan.

450slcguy 12-08-2009 09:35 PM

I'm looking at the Mercury Grand Marquis. You can buy an almost new 2009 with factory warranty for about $20,000. Excellent solid reliable car for the money.

daveuz 12-08-2009 10:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pavka007 (Post 2356323)
Sedici was never produced with 150 BHP. This is a Suzuki badged as Fiat. The only gas engine is 1.6/120BHP Suzuki, the other one is 1.9 Multijet Diesel from Fiat and from 2009 2.0L Multijet Diesel;)
For US market ONLY they are using 2.0L gas engine with 143 BHP. The rest of the world is with 1.6 Gasoline and 2 X Diesel engines.

The 2010 SX4 was raised to 150 HP thru VVT. The Suzuki hatchback is a joint venture by Japanese and Italian automakers Suzuki and Fiat and are built in 3 countries. All the info is there just "google it". http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suzuki_SX4

Pavka007 12-08-2009 10:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by daveuz (Post 2356351)
The 2010 SX4 was raised to 150 HP thru VVT. The Suzuki hatchback is a joint venture by Japanese and Italian automakers Suzuki and Fiat and are built in 3 countries. All the info is there just "google it".


OK I got it :D You are working for Suzuki and you read Wikipedia more than the rest of us :D

Peace....

daveuz 12-08-2009 10:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pavka007 (Post 2356358)
OK I got it :D You are working for Suzuki and you read Wikipedia more than the rest of us :D

Peace....

Peace.

engatwork 12-09-2009 06:15 AM

For some reason cars don't excite me anymore like they used to. I'm not sure what it is but the excitement kind of went away over the summer after I moved back to the farm. I think it has something to do with all the stuff I have going on around here. I tend to drive my '97 Ford F150 more than anything else.

Brandon_SLC 12-09-2009 05:48 PM

I gave up on exciting for now. I do like interesting though. I find the new Prius interesting.

I used to be a VW guy and still admire some of their offerings. I would be hard pressed to choose between the technologically interesting Prius and the Golf TDI.

I was interested in the Suzuki SX4/Sedici, until I looked at one closely at last years car show. Too cheap looking and cramped and not that cheap when well equipped. I would never buy one over a Subaru.

I'm surprised there hasn't been any mention of Mini/Mini Clubman so far.

Hatterasguy 12-09-2009 07:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by engatwork (Post 2356505)
For some reason cars don't excite me anymore like they used to. I'm not sure what it is but the excitement kind of went away over the summer after I moved back to the farm. I think it has something to do with all the stuff I have going on around here. I tend to drive my '97 Ford F150 more than anything else.

Same here, all I see is a money drain.

Thats why I recomended a Honda Accord. They don't break and are nice and comfortable to drive. With the most basic maintenance and a couple sets of tires you can get 10-12 years out of one without having to spend much money.

snookwhaler 12-09-2009 07:49 PM

Assuming we are talking about New cars since you said "MSRP".

The Jetta is a deal. I would do that in a hearbeat since I have been in TDI's before.

I hate to admit that I like the "idea" of the Honda FIT (Flame suit on). But it is probably like riding down the road in a beer can. Body drumming, road noise, engine noise, etc...

I used to own a 1997 VW GTI/VR6. I bought the car new off the showroom floor. I drove the car 190,000 miles between 1997 and 2002. I went shopping for cars and looking at new cars in 2002. I actually drove a Subaru Impreza at that time... Like driving a "beer can". The build quality was horrible compared to the GTI. I remember getting back in my old VW and driving away. My car was still in incredible condition and drove better (overall) than that damn Impreza. I was not impressed. Maybe I should have drove a Legacy?

Anyway... A few weeks later I bought a nice used low mileage 1996 VW Passat TDI and a new 2001.5 Dodge 3500 QuadCab Cummins/6 speed. I liked VW TDI so much that I bought another one a few years later. Both are gone now. I sure miss those cars.:rolleyes:

Used cars is a whole different story. I would have to think about that one. I would probably hold out for that low mileage, garage kept, mint condition 1987 300TD. I really wish I would have held out for a wagon.....

MS Fowler 12-09-2009 08:49 PM

Actually, I agree with some of you that "exciting" is too much to hope for in this price range. "Interesting" might be the better term.

I have a friend with a Honda Fit. He also has a 300TD,( for sale) a 300CD, a TR6 and a Honda Odessy. Previous vehicles include a 928 Porsche, and some Alfas. I list all his vehicles to show why I value his opinion.
He really loves his Fit. I've been in it for a few hours at a time, and its not too noisy.

Thanks for all the responses. I am not planning an immediate replacement, but this gives me a place to start, if I have to. Thanks, again.

Craig 12-09-2009 08:55 PM

"Interesting" seems wildly optimistic.

Ara T. 12-09-2009 11:34 PM

Perhaps the Mazdaspeed 3?

The Honda Fits are pretty fun to drive little cars. They are probably quieter than a W123 too.

Skippy 12-09-2009 11:42 PM

I share the lack of enthusiasm for most new cars. I like Mercury Grand Marquis. It's built on a platform that's been around since 1979 and hasn't had a real redesign since some time in the 90's, so it's less of a new car and more of a classic that's still in production, kind of like a 1911 pistol.

OTOH, this insistence on a new car seems awfully pricey. That 22,000 dollar cap is more than ten times what I've ever payed for a car. You might get a divorce cheaper:D

Larry Delor 12-10-2009 12:16 AM

If I counted correctly, I am the 4th person to recommend the VW Jetta TDI. :)

MS Fowler 12-10-2009 06:47 AM

That has been noted.


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