These runaway Toyotas
 

Another report this morning. Guy in CA goes 90mph for TWENTY MINUTES standing on the brakes till they're metal on metal. Cop gets up along side him and uses his PA to tell the guy to turn it off. Duhhh....What am I missing here? Don't Toyotas have "neutral" like every other car on the planet? Do they LOCK themselves in drive? Seems to me like the little man named Common Sense would be jumping up and down inside your brain screaming GET THE EFFING THING OUT OF DRIVE AND SHUT IT DOWN, NOW!!!

The hybrid car in this instance has a start stop button rather than a traditional system. It requires holding the button for several seconds to turn it off, kind of like when your computer locks up.

Since its counter intuitive people panic and don't hold the button down.

can't the driver put it in neutral?

News reports indicate that the policeman told the Prius driver to simultaneously apply his service and parking brakes, which slowed him down to just 50 mph. He was then able to get it out of Drive. I think that the Prius electric driving controls may not be quite as intuitive as those on a '66 Ford...

Same problem. Takes several seconds of holding it there when you're in motion, and a counter intuitive system that can get confusing in a panic situation.

http://www.automotiveaddicts.com/wp-...ter01small.jpg

BTW, the Prius was averaging 43 MPG during this event, so it wasn't all bad news...

I have to say, if cars were more designed like aircraft, with failsafes and somewhat standardized controls, that would help...

Ok, I'll confess - I have no clue what the "B" is for......

Good luck convincing Japan to build the level of redundancy and jack up the level of quality control necessary to meet that goal. Toyota has become production-number hungry, and is becoming General Motors circa-1974 in regard to design and production quality.

Buy another Brand.

Well thats how Mercedes builds them, but not every manufacture seems to value things like that.


Still these people all panic and become useless, if they thought for 2 seconds they would take it out of gear.

I don’t get the counterintuitive thing if they know (and they should by now if they’ve been paying any attention at all) that holding the button for 5 seconds will stop the madness. Or shall we say: Put an end to the “panic situation”.

Seems a little like me being in a “panic situation” while flying along and the engine dies because a fuel tank ran dry. I don’t think switching the fuel selector to a tank with fuel in it would be counterintuitive at all.

But then... Maybe that's just me. :rolleyes:
Thank God, these people aren't pilots. ;)

The "B gear" is most closely related to a jake brake on a truck. B is similar to a Low gear in a regular automatic. You should only use it when descending a long/steep hill where you'd be concerned about brake wear/fade. The B gear forces the gasoline engine to spin to bleed off some excess energy and to help slow you down.

B is for engine "Braking" and no, it does NOT mean "battery." (under most circumstances, you'll have less battery charging in B mode compared to D, just as you'd have lowered fuel economy in B mode compared to D because of the energy drain from spinning the gasoline engine.)

For most driving, you should stay in the conventional "D gear" (drive).

If the newer hatchback style of Prius, note that the use of the "B gear" will cancel cruise control if you have it turned on.

More info on the "B gear" can be found at:
http://prius.ecrostech.com/QandA/BMode.h…
http://www.techno-fandom.org/~hobbit/car…

absolutely right.....

engine Braking, as in going down a mountain.

Sure. You want all the redundancies like the F16 that has 4 computers that can run it, how much you want to pay for it? Oh, you are going to lose fuel mileage due to the extra weight too.

not quite like that, but if you are going to go "wired' on critical controls like throttle, and have functions controlled by ECUs, then there should be a failsafe way to shut the damned thing down upon failure. think GA aircraft, not F16....;)

The pilots of the plane that carried Lynyrd Skynyrd apparently found that task to be quite counterintuitive. In regard to the Prius, I don't know how old the Prius driver is, but I believe there to be a link between advancing age and diminishing technology-savviness. There is a reason old folks flock to the Mercury Grand Marquis or older Mercedes models - the driving controls operate on the same principle as those on the 1954 Ford that they learned to drive on.

They would atleast do something !!

I agree with the "useless".

I also think it’s a sign of what I’ve felt for some time now.
That people don’t take the time to learn, and therefore are clueless as to how their car and its systems actually work. They know enough to jump in, start it, put in gear and go. That’s it.

As soon as they get into a sticky situation, they’re clueless and panic. In this case, some are dying from their own lack of knowledge.
Yes – Toyota has some problems with their cars. But if some of these folks would take a minute to study the book the car came with, they’d not find themselves freaking out on the road... or dead.

Don’t even get me started on pulling over to help out a would be normally intelligent mature man who hasn’t a clue where the cars jack and/or spare tire is. :mad:

Like you said, turn it off. Hold button down for a few seconds or toss it into neutral. However, YOU have to do it and not panic.

Driving down a mountain road in a gas-pedal-happy Prius, shod with those low-rolling resistance, low-stiction tires? Pass.

Staged. The news was already there, during a segment about Toyota's press release (on Bloomberg), and he managed to get out a phone and call 911, but couldn't stop the car? ABC already tried shenanigans. This is more of that.

People get old and they are incapable of absorbing new technology. Remember, the body is like fine wine. It gets better with age UP TO A POINT. Then it becomes vinegar. The human body is not designed to last for eternity. Why do you think women get menopause? As such, like you said, they flock to the old school stuff they understand because they can't grasp newer ideas.

X2

Also -
It isn’t about putting more systems in the car.
It’s about the person in the car not having a clue how to operate the systems it already has.

There is.

I think you just hold a button down for 5 seconds. :D

I think the problem is not simply understanding the material. It is practicing the material. Yes, I know what to do when my car slides out. HOWEVER, because I don't practice it, when it comes to crunch time, I panic and any knowledge goes out the window. If you want to learn how to control the car in a slide, take it out to an open lot in the middle of the night and practice recovering from slides. That way, when you DO slide, you will already have the reflexes.

Nothing is foolproof to a talented fool..... :D:D:D:D
There seem to be a lot of exceptionally talented fools out there these days....

true, but it seems like folks are either not doing that, or it is not working. a simple pull out buss that kills the power to all the systems would be a cheap and simple fix. THEN of course, you have to get people to know what to do.....:)

I don’t care how old they are. If they can’t grasp the "push and hold a button for 5 seconds " procedure, then they shouldn’t be driving anything. No matter how old school it’s systems are.

Since a good chunk of people can't even name their own state capitol or current Vice President, its not too much of a stretch to think that many Toyota drivers don't know how to shut the car off in an emergency.

I bet if you asked Toyota driver's how many cylinders their car has, the majority wouldn't know. The results would probably be worse for Kia and Hyundai drivers.

http://toyotasimulator.com/

Well, if it is too simple, the problem now becomes "What happens if I knock that off in the middle of a complicated maneuver?". If it is too difficult like the 5 second hold on the start button, the guy cannot do it. So, problem is the nut behind the wheel that is incapable. Nothing you do except removal of said nut will work.

Bingo, Tyler.

I’m not sure if that’s sad as hell, or scary as hell.

Perhaps both.

thats what happens when cars become appliances....

I agree 100%. AARP will not though. AARP will want them behind the wheel even if they are legally blind if it could get away with it.

thats why we have medical exams for pilots...not everyone should fly, or drive....

As I said, AARP will not see it that way. They look at it from the standpoint that you are taking away the poor old geezer's freedom.

oops, too bad. his freedom ends where my driving space and safety begin...;)

Just realize that the "push and hold a button for 5 seconds" procedure is not used in everyday driving, but is a mode unique to attempting to turn off the engine while the car is moving (with the longer duration of the press compared to turning the engine off while in "Park" a characteristic added as a "safety" feature), thus a driver who may not have studied the fine print on page 435 of the owner's manual may have overlooked it.

Problem is the old folks are considered a very powerful voting block and they'll be damned if your rights will block their getting around whether they are blind, crippled or crazy or all 3.

thats why a big, easily recognized buss switch that turns off all power inputs and ecu output would be nice. perhaps with a placard that says "Kill Switch"

There is one possible cure to the unfamiliar controls issue, but be prepared to dig down deep to pay for it: Everytime you buy a new car, you have 30 days to undergo a form of state-administered driving test to demonstrate that you know how to perform certain tasks and properly operate certain controls, such as lights, wipers, defrosters, etc. In the alternative, standardize the location, shape and operation of driving controls so rigidly that the controls on a $100K S550 look and act just like the controls found on the cheapest Kia.

At least they're always well insured. :D Hormonal women and texting teens can be just as dangerous.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SUUH-YL_LOM

Just keep the electric power steering and brake boosters enabled, so Grandma has a fighting chance to steer and stop her car on the shoulder.

You would be surprised how much driving environment info can be gleaned from tapping a red-tipped cane on the inside of the windshield...

:D

http://solari.com/blog/wp-content/up...red_button.jpg

Not always.

Or put them out to pasture in say a nursing home. There they will be driven around by someone else.

Hey! We've only had to repaint the front bumper twice and the back bumper once on my 80 year old grandmother's Cadillac CTS. Its been a few years so all the corners are chewed up again. Nothing wrong with the bumping technique for parking. :D

She bought that Cadillac new in 2003 and I still have to set the clock for her. She rediscovers features each time I ride along as well.

Excuse me?!? AARP says that until the EEG is flat-lined for at least six months, our senior folk have a God-given right to drive some old crate down the middle of the road.