PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum - Frontline on For-Profit Universities

PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum (http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/)

- Off-Topic Discussion (http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/off-topic-discussion/)

- - Frontline on For-Profit Universities (http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/off-topic-discussion/276882-frontline-profit-universities.html)

Quote:

Originally Posted by AdvisorGuy (Post 2461843)

Funny you mention that. Last year before starting the program I'm in, I went to a "career" meeting with the state workforce commission. They had a list of professions they would "subsidize" for two years as career changes or mothers returning to the workforce. Plenty of things like hairdressing, nurses assistant, welder,etc, but not what I wanted to do/am doing. Although there is a national shortage of what I'm learning, apparently there isn't a shortage in my 2-3 county area - most likely because the school is located here and there are only a few nationwide. Even though on the US Dept of Labor's own site, it's listed as high demand field that's expected to grow 25% over the next five years.

So for now, it's work whatever job I can find and thank my lucky stars that my partner got a raise & promotion so he can handle most of the bills until I'm done. He has another two semesters to finish his Masters at UTA. So by next year this time, we "should" be better off and when I finish by the following spring of 2012, I can go back to being "productive member of society." Along with $30Gs plus in student loans like a good man..

what exactly are you studying?

Quote:

Originally Posted by kerry (Post 2461842)

God Dammit! There's an ad for the University of Phoenix scrolling across the top of this page.

Resistance is futile. You cannot escape their corporate power.

Quote:

Originally Posted by kerry (Post 2461600)

They're not called kickbacks. They're called profit sharing plans to the administrators and ROI to the shareholders.

Sadly, this is true.
At U-Michigan, the president makes almosst 800 grand, overshadowed only by the Director of the Athletics Department who has a seven-figure salary with bennies.

A local administrator at Oakland University makes $295,000, more than most profs at medical schools. How did he do it? He just kept negotiating the same % increase every year: 9% no matter what the economy was or what his performance was. And the bosses were too intimidated to tell him "no"

The only consolation is that out epic failure of a governor will only make 80,000/year pension and lifetime total medical, when she retires Jan 1 2011. yes they collect the pension as soon as they leave.

Can anyone explain the difference between a "for profit" uni and a "not for profit" one? I assume all universites have to stay financially solvent if they are to function so what's the diff? Government subsidy of places like Harvard, CalState etc, or what?

- Peter.

Quote:

Originally Posted by pj67coll (Post 2463054)

Difference is whether there are shareholders in the university which get profits and a board of directors that controls the university. Which means the central purpose of the institution is different. Proprietary schools exist to make a profit, traditional universities don't. Lots of different policies from those fundamental differences.

College is big business, I would argue even the state schools see a certian ROI for the state.

Books are another big scam, the schools make a killing on.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hatterasguy (Post 2463326)

College is big business, I would argue even the state schools see a certian ROI for the state.

Books are another big scam, the schools make a killing on.

How do you figure they make a killing on the books when I can get them elsewhere at a cheaper price if they go too far?

The book store at school is always jammed, and a lot of the professors now write their own books and only sell them through the campus book store.

NPR's All Things Considered had a piece on for-profits yesterday, referring to it in the title of the piece: Is There A For-Profit Education Bubble?

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=129259157

Is the sequel to the subprime mortgage crisis a subprime education crisis? The shares of several companies that own for-profit colleges and universities slid yesterday when the Department of Education reported on student loans and who is not repaying them. The nonpayment rates for people who attended some for-profits are so high they could jeopardize access to future loans for students at those for-profits.

Joining us is Jonathan Kaufman, who's education editor at Bloomberg News. Thank you very much for joining us.

Mr. JONATHAN KAUFMAN (Education Editor, Bloomberg News): Thank you.

SIEGEL: And first, according to the Department of Education, what is a tolerable rate of nonpayment of student loans for a college, and where are the for-profits in that - in regard to that rate?

Mr. KAUFMAN: Well, the tolerance is actually pretty high. The Education Department has said that if only 45 percent of your graduates are repaying their loans, that's okay. But what we found out on Friday is that for-profit colleges overall only have a 36 percent repayment rate, and some campuses, the rate is as low as nine or 10 percent.

SIEGEL: Some of the for-profits we're talking about include Kaplan University, which is owned by The Washington Post Company; the University of Phoenix; Strayer University. Strayer Education claims that the way they tally up their numbers, they come up with a repayment rate of 55 percent, and the Department of Education figures it's only 25 percent. Do you understand disparities that large?

Mr. KAUFMAN: Well, I think everyone is trying to understand that better. I think in the end, the government is going to make the call because it's the government's money, it's taxpayer money. But the investigations we've been able to do up to now suggest that those numbers are correct. But they're clearly in dispute.

SIEGEL: You say it's taxpayer money. Who's on the hook for those unpaid loans?

Mr. KAUFMAN: Well, essentially, taxpayers in the U.S. government. This money, it's the student's obligation to pay it back, and that's why the government is so concerned because what they're seeing is that the amount of money that for-profit colleges have gotten has soared.

In 2000, it was about $4 billion total in student aid going to for-profit colleges. Now, it's about $26, $27 billion. And they're concerned that if these repayment rates are so low, in the end, the government will be stuck with the bill.

SIEGEL: Anyone who's watched any commercial television in the past few years knows that these are institutions that advertise very, very heavily.

Mr. KAUFMAN: They are. And in a sense, I think one way to understand this is that for-profit colleges really are a business. So if you respond to one of those ads on the Internet or call the 800 number, you will get people calling you. They're really selling their product. They're not so much in a business, as we think of, as a college admissions counselor trying to tell you why you should go to a certain school.

SIEGEL: The comparison to housing is getting irresistible here. Higher education, like homeownership, is commonly seen as a measure of economic and social progress. People are getting a hard sell the way they might from a mortgage broker. They're getting in over their heads in debt to pay a premium for education, and then they can't repay it. Do you buy the comparison?

Mr. KAUFMAN: Well, I think that certainly the government is worried about that, and investigations that we've done suggested that's true, too. Because there are two things to remember here: One is by going to a for-profit college, you're paying a tremendous premium to take a course there, and you're borrowing more money to pay the bill.

Now, for-profit colleges will say that's because they're more convenient. They have better technology. But still, their prices are much higher. The second thing is, is that there's a huge debate about how valuable for-profit college degrees are. Very often, students will sign up for degrees at these for-profit colleges. They graduate and they discover that the degrees aren't worth very much. And that's where the money issue becomes the problem because not only are students upset about that, but then if they can't get a job, they can't pay back the loans, and the taxpayer is stuck with the bill.

SIEGEL: Jonathan Kaufman, thank you very much for talking with us.

Mr. KAUFMAN: Thank you.

SIEGEL: Jonathan Kaufman is education editor of Bloomberg News. He spoke to us from the Bloomberg bureau in Boston.

Someone should start a football U. Just football. For profit only.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kuan (Post 2528109)

Someone should start a football U. Just football. For profit only.

Isn't that Notre Dame? ;)

Quote:

Originally Posted by cmac2012 (Post 2528105)

Very often, students will sign up for degrees at these for-profit colleges. They graduate and they discover that the degrees aren't worth very much. And that's where the money issue becomes the problem because not only are students upset about that, but then if they can't get a job, they can't pay back the loans, and the taxpayer is stuck with the bill.

There are 2 other people at fault.

I assume that the student is of legal age and therefore has to assume responsibility for his/her actions. After all, she/he does reap the benefits of a right decision so why not the bad? She he/she not be responsible for the lack of research into what the college is about?

Then there is the loan agency. When I loan you money, do I simply give it without any safeguards? I should be checking out what you want the money for. IOW, just because you say it is a restaurant doesn't mean I must give it to you. I should be checking out what your business plan is. If your restaurant plans to have a squid only menu, I probably won't want to lend the money. OTOH, if it is a McDonnalds, sure. It is the lender's responsibility to see what they are lending the student for so that they know what their odds of repayment are.

Sure, it is convenient to blame the bad institute. Nobody put a gun to your head and make you sign there. Even if you do, you might need to quite before screwing up your life further if it is a bad mistake you suddenly had an epiphany and realized what happened.

Quote:

Originally Posted by aklim (Post 2528139)

True enough all in all. But the main point of trouble in this story, IMO, is the linkage that allowed U of Ph. etc. to get the feds to back up student loans. If UofPh is do damn certain of the value of their "education," let the loans be on their backs. Let the quality of their product stand on its own feet.

Ought to be some serious hearings on this and a seizing of some of those large fortune$ amassed by the con artists pushing these scams.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kuan (Post 2528109)

Someone should start a football U. Just football. For profit only.

That's the one place where colleges make serious money. How does that work, the football coach makes $1 or $2 million a year and the college president a few hundred $K?

these folks make p.t. barnum look like an amateur. :D