Why, after 3 degrees, I hate college
 

I want to take an auto AC course from a local community college. I have been to school before.

These egg suckers have a real racket going here.

I have to take so many prerequisite and orientation courses, pay other fees and complete "supplementary" courses, including an English course, that the bill is $ 1140.00, even though the actual course only costs 228.00 plus books.

No wonder no one can afford school. It's a fricking institutional racket.

I should go to the Free University in Berlin and take my AC course. Even with plane fare it might cost less :mad:

St Andrews and Nappier University in Edinburgh are running summer courses on any subject for flat fee of £120.00. They do that every year since I remember....it was like that when I graduated......23 years ago :D Gosh I am getting old :eek:

You can get a return flight from NY to Edinburgh and back for $350.00 :)

What other courses did you have to take? Once you take them you're set right?

College is highly over-rated unless you are a professional, ie, doctor, lawyer, accountant or dentist. It has become a self-perpetuating enterprise just like secondary education, the war on drugs, war on crime, war on cancer, war on terror, etc. If your parents can afford the tuition, fine, but I don't see the point of going into debt to the tune of $100-200K and then having to work three jobs at Burger King and Home Depot because there are no real jobs anymore. I think the future of many young people today would be better served by learning a trade such as plumbing, HVAC repair, electrician, or auto repair.

What sucks is, most HR monkeys these days check the "college degree" box that filters out all resumes who don't hold a degree.

Community college degrees are great degrees for people and shouldn't be scoffed at, but still this world is all about who you know and how you can network.

In this respect the Euro system is better. A bunch of individual institutes based on subject matter, linked loosely by a University "umbrella."

All apprenticeships are no kidding tough, and unlike the UAW and unions here in the States, there are no free rides based on seniority, race, union connections, etc. You actually have to earn your apprenticeship.

Case in point: I wrote the trobleshooting manual for the Landis 5R crankpin grinder in 1978 after doing a study at Chrysler's Mound Road engine plant. I was working for Chrysler at the time. We couldn't find any electricians in the plant or in the Engine and Casting Division who knew how to troubleshoot the machines. We then went to the authorized parts supplier, Grinders for Industry, Inc., in Novi Mich., and used their subject matter expert to help. He could not do much more. So we went to the manufacturer, Landis, in Pennsylvania, for their review. They wanted to buy the rights to the book. Chrysler said no, but they worked out a deal anyway.

The so called "journeymen electricians" at the plant had been working on these machines for nine years and it was only after the Crankshaft Dept had a 50% + SCRAP rate that we got called in to help.

So where was our brilliant journeyman expertise?

Answer: The guys who worked on the Landis machines got to do it by seniority, whether they knew anything or not.

Solidarity forever!

Would you like your surgeons to be selected in the same way?

Orientation? :rolleyes:
Pre reqs??? Such as?? You want to take something basic, principles and such?
JC, aren't three degrees and a career enough orentiation? :eek:
Michigan huh? figures.;) The shining beacon of public education.:rolleyes:

How about a Vo-tech HS offeriing?? (I'm serious.:o) Or are you looking for something more advanced?

What would you expect them to do? Waive you thru as an exception but all others who need to take that class have to do the pre-reqs? If you think you have such a strong case, make it to the Dean and see if he will waive it for you. Having 3 degrees, you should know better.

Well, perhaps the standards and pre reqs for a MI community college are based on the acheivement levels of many MI high school graduates. Can only read at 7th grade level? Well, you have to take a prereq course in reading to get to 12th grade levels. Half the kids in Detroit public schools fail to graduate, I believe.

I don't think he's looking for head of the line privileges. Just railing against he system.(you know, like I am;):o)

I'd say it is based off the LACK OF achievement unless speaking in Broken English is a part of success. In college, I have seen the the pre-reqs are fairly necessary if you want to graduate by more than the skin of your teeth. I think the CC is basing these requirements off what you should have if you want a kollege degree and not that he has an interest in that one class. Like I said, he needs to make his case to the dean if he wants an exemption from pre-reqs

Problem is that a system is set up for a bunch of people and not an individual needs. Pretty much like going to a mess hall. Food will not be as good as you going to a restaurant and it is made to your specs.

I only have one degree, and I hated school before I even showed up.

As to your situation...

See if there are any private schools in your area. Something like "Fred's School of Refrig" or something. If the school has a good rep it will get you hired just as fast as a degree from a Community school.

In Texas you have to serve two years under a lisenced contractor before you can get your own contractors lisence, but you can get your education anywhere. Call a big contractor before you go anywhere and tell them what you are planning and ask them what are the best schools in the area and who do they recommend.

I knew a guy who did this. He worked out a deal with the lisenced contractor to go out on his own while paying the LC a 10% commission on all of his jobs. The LC had the ultimate responsiblity for the fellows' work, but he trusted him and just did a final inspection on his installations.

A/C is here to stay. It may not be as confortable as working in an office, but the pay is good and the job is secure.

You think $1100 is bad? Each one of my classes is $1800 and that is considered cheap, my gf is at $2400 for her psych program...and the prerequisite for both was a $200k education. I had second thoughts about wanting to be a college professor because they get paid so little (comparably to others of similar education) that I'd be lucky to pay loans and interest by the time I die.

Look through this site and see if they offer what you want. I got my section 609 certification from them although I also have my universal ref. license from a different source.

http://www.epatest.com/

Guys, I really don't know how any normal working class person here in the US can get any education. I feel for you, and this is not a joke. I really feel your pain.
Just have a look the fees at St Andrews my Academical "Birth Place" :)

http://www.st-andrews.ac.uk/students/money/Tuitionfees/

They charge more for anybody outside EU, but even that is still way cheaper than what your system is charging you.

Even medicine is £2895.00 for the WHOLE year. This is about 2,1/2 monthly salary of someone that is working in a grocery store.... So if you do 5 years it is about £15000.00 for the LOT. After that if you go to do PhD is £3400.00 per year.

As per British government the average graduate today is in debt between £25 and £35 K...here I've read articles for people coming out of Medical schools with $500 K debt. :eek::(:eek:

No
 

Someone is pulling your chain...

OCC offers it

AUTOMOBILE SERVICING

ATA 1800 Automotive Air Conditioning and Heating

county residents = $275.40
Other MI residents = $550.00 includes books etc.
no prerequisites + show your degrees and they exempt you from the basic english placement test.

You need to register today for the summer course that starts July 7...
I just spoke with "Anna" 248-232-4350, there until 8:00 PM.

http://www.oaklandcc.edu/FutureStudents/AdmissionOffices.aspx

A MBA is about the minimum like a HS diploma was in the 1950's. Its an ugly fact of life, but still a fact. Anybody saying skipping college when given the opportunity is "aiming low" for their future.

My grandfather was an accountant. He was just done with his 3rd year in HS. Back there it was 6 yrs grade school and 4 yrs HS. Things change and requirements are now higher. Still, I don't think an MBS is an absolute necessity. Obviously, as more get qualified, the bar is raised to take into account for that.

UMass Amherst has more in fees than tuition...

Ask me how I know...

:mad:

My state school wasn't to bad. Eventualy I should go back and get my MBA.

I agree that a degree is necessary, but the MBA is no longer as worthwhile as it was about 10 years ago. Too many people have picked up MBAs in recent years so their value is diluted. You are better off with a specific graduate degree.

Things are different today, of course, but in the past, like 35 years ago, companies were did not check resumes that close.

There was a fellow at BIG oil that seemed rather young to have the job he did which was a technical expert in hydraulics. He was not an engineer. He ran operational systems.

He did a great job and was moved into management. Today he is a VP with one of the majors.

After I got to know him he admitted that he had dropped out ot high school in the 10th grade, had lied about his age and hired on when he was 16. He plans to retire with fifty years of service since his secrets got out long ago.

Back then if you passed the six months probation period you were on steady.

Great skills for the impending "Book of Eli" like apocalypse! :(

I agree with this 100%.

The last U.S. census results showed that the income advantage in having a masters degree over a bachelor's degree was nil. The only reason to get an MBA is if the job you are trying to do requires it, or if you need the MBA to get a promotion.

Apparently, it wasn't to good either.

Wife took care of an old retired RN. When she started, she only had to deal with 15 drugs or less. Today, wife has to know and be responsible for more than 15 classes of drugs. Each class has it's own unique characteristics and each drug might differ slightly from another of it's class. Knowledge explosion.

Strel; I know of what you speak. I considered taking an auto body shop course at the local CC. After the run around and BS I had to go through, I just forgot about it. I think the days of dropping into a CC and taking a course for your own edification is over in most places. They have become institutionalized profit centers......

Exactly
in Nursing especially this is the case.
On my wifey's floor there is only one LPN left. All the others are RNs and most have their BSN - She is going to go back to school to get her BSN and MSN next year. Even though she has a BS degree she is going to be limited in her career without the MSN...
Of course the last LPN has 39 years of experience, but the hospital is still going to force her out unless she gets her RN!

In my line of work it is all about specific certifications. I must have 15 certificates around here somewhere...

I'm surprised that there is one LPN. At the hospital where the wife works, they "promote" them to Lead CNA, essentially. If you want a manager position, it is different. People like your wife can be promoted to manager. HOWEVER, 7 yrs later, either she has achieved a Masters or she will be canned. It is that simple. Wife could not be a manager until she made the commitment to be Masters certified. Figured if she was going to do that, she might as well be APNP. Thankfully she did so because they changed the requirement that after 2012, you have to be a DNP instead of MSN. Basically, more fluff classes. :mad:

I don't have that many certifications besides my BA in computer science. Just an MCP from Bill Gates and an MCP (Male Chauvinist Pig) from some women. :D Also some have said I am certifiable. Wonder if that would count? :D

Don't criticize him for that. Most younger people can't spell. There is no emphasis on grammar, punctuation and usage in high school, let alone spelling.

Most people don't have a grammar book at home to use for checking usage, either.

I learned a long time ago, as a translator, and as an American living in foreign countries, that if you learn the foreigner's language so well that you make no mistakes in spelling, they give you much more respect than you could ever earn any other way.

But the advent of texting favors economy over correct spelling .

It kills more than that, in the long run.

I have been awarded the MCP with oak clusters!
I understand what you are saying about your wife. Mine just became a nurse- she was a marketing babe (MCP again) She LOOOOVES being a nurse but her BS does nothing for her - except make her manager give her extra work to do like "process improvement'
She has decided to get her MSN and to teach as well as stay on a floor.
I hate what her floor does to her. They are constantly short staffed, get the worst pts, and have the oldest equipment in the hospital - all 1980's stuff!
She was covered in blood the other day
from a pt who needed five security guards to restrain
and urine
and etc
That was a day shift. one day of rest and it was night shift time...
CRAZY!

For some reason they do not like LPNs or CNAs. They would rather have an RN do that kind of work!
They give one aid to every two nurses!
I mean COME ON!


back on topic...

My son is going to Pace University for the last two years of his college career - the bill will be around $85000!
I am just thankful he got a full scholarship - woo hoo!

I have my degree in History and I have NEVER EVER used it for anything. I cannot even find it anymore...


All my things say Sun Microsystems, HP, IBM, or BMC

I'm majoring in computer science and I have to take a chem/bio class or two and physics. I can see calc 1 and calc 2. I just dont know why I will need to know chem to code and program.

sometimes prereqs are a joke.

I understand that you don't see it now, you might see it in 10 years. Don't confuse college/university with a trade school.

ehhh. Whenever I get my degree I probably wont even be working in my field.

Maybe, maybe not. But as an employer, it shows me that you can commit to a course and see it thru. Even if you were to work as something totally unrelated, I will see it as someone who is less likely to just hit a rough patch and quit after I spent all that time and money training them.

Good point, most people don't end up doing what they though they would be doing. When I was an undergrad, I hated having to take non-engineering classes, now I spend a fair amount of time writing reports and giving presentations. An undergrad curriculum is intended to give a reasonably well rounded education.

Craig, Aklim

your avatar photos made me do a double take lol

But I agree, english and lit classes are useful. I've got to take a technical report writing class. I sure hope I get an assignment that involves writing a users manual for a peanut butter and jelly sandwich, how to assemble, tools/materials needed, trouble shooting, and diagrams!

So tell me why I need English to do AC when I have 3 degrees already. And I think I can speak English well enough, since I translated enough service manuals into English.

This is a fricking racket.

If you need to write that manual for a government agency, it will end up being about 50 pages long. It's amazing how many very bright technical people can't write to save their lives. There is nothing worse than trying to put together a document with inputs from a bunch of engineers.

I don't know what you need, but if you want a degree from an institution you will have to meet their requirements. If you just want to take a class in AC, find someplace that offers just the class(es) that you need.

Are they making you take a class because English isn't your first language?

Pre-requisites are there that the general population has an improved chance of passing the class. Our friend feels that the school should cater to him and give him a pass while others have to go thru the rigors of the system. Where is the confusion?

This is about what the general population needs not you. This is what they feel a person IN GENERAL needs. Look at some of the posts in this forum. They don't even know the difference between "your" and "you're". The student in general, needs to do English so they (the institute) can be sure that he/she can understand the material.

Can I offer you an apology for the school that they did not tailor things specific to the almighty you. :rolleyes: As I said, you want to be an exception to the rule but you don't want to lift a finger to go to the Dean and beg for an exception. Perhaps you can impress him enough that he might even change the course time to one more suited to you. Maybe even arrange for a hottie instructor and partner for your class? Better yet, maybe he can just give you the grade and materials for free?

Community colleges sometimes have placement test in English and math to determine if incoming students need additional classes to be successful. These classes are usually only required if you are seeking a degree, you can usually take a technical class as a non-degree student if you are just looking for knowledge.

Sometimes the Dean can also give an exemption. Had that happen before. All of what you say makes sense but our friend thinks he and his 3 degrees should make others bow down and give him an exemption without lifting a finger. When they won't acknowledge his greatness, he throws a hissy fit and calls it a frikin racket. Tell me I am wrong.

Since you asked: You are wrong.

I wanted to enroll as a guest student to take the class in the subject that I want to study. I expect nothing for free but I don't need to take an English class.

This isn't about greatness, as you erroneously put it, it's about being forced to pay for things you neither want nor need.

Imagine if you wanted to buy a newspaper and you could only buy one if you also bought reading glasses. How long before the market would correct that? Does the newspaper merchant decide what you need? and pay for? Or do you? And if you disagree with him, should I categorize you as being vain and the merchant not" acknowledging your greatness" in not requiring reading glasses?

US auto dealers found this out when they made buyers purchase packages including accessories the customers didn't want and didn't want to buy.

That didn't change until the Japanese companies offered selected individual options instead of, or in addition to, large, expensive packages.

I'll just continue the hunt for a school that offers what I want.

The schools like this have unfortunately left the state.

There is a shortage of certified mechanics in Michigan but the governor cut funding to the tech schools.

Now the only place in Michigan to acquire welding skills in a school is in the outplacement program at the state penitentiary in Jackson.

But they don't have an AC program either:(

Once again, maybe YOU don't need the English class but if they feel that the average student needs it, they make it a requirement. You get lumped into the group unless they feel satisfied that you don't need it. As I said, make your case to them and see if they will waive it for you. If not, too bad. Take it or leave it. Calling it a racket makes me thing you want an exemption due to your greatness that they don't recognize. It's not a racket designed to make money only. It is that they are not very good at catering to special cases like yourself.

The community colleges I'm familiar with have some sort of adult education or non-degree programs wherein a person can take a class he's interested in without jumping thru all the hoops. Are you enrolling in an AC certification program or is it just one course? If it's a prescribed course of study leading to some sort of degree or certificate, of course there are going to be pre-reqs. Testing out of pre-reqs is also fairly common, but they're probably still going to nick you for the course fee if they give you the credit.
I don't always like their practices either. I taught extension evening sessions for my local CC a few years ago. The college has a rule that in order for a class to go, there must be at least 12 students enrolled. I had one class that had 11 enrolled and the college would make no exception, they cancelled the class. I should mention I was paid a flat fee for each 15 session class. A couple of weeks later they contacted me and wanted me to do the same class as independent study for some student who HAD to have it that semester to finish his AA degree. "What's the pay?" Sez I. "One-twelfth the normal class wage". After the associate dean got an earful, I don't work for them anymore. :D

See, that is where your problem was. You fail to understand simple negotiation.

You: So, you NEED the class to graduate
Student: Yes
You: For each semester you sit out, it is costing you money in lost wages. So what is the class worth to YOU? :D BTW, I take cash only. Small bills and non-sequential. Nothing larger than $20.

Strelnik sometimes you can challenge a class and just take a proficiency test instead of taking the class, try asking.

It's good idea to take a tech report writing class. I seem to always be writing requests and scopes of work, even though that is not supposed to be part of the job. I have to do it in a way that some one who has NO knowledge of engineering can understand it even though they claim to know the subject. It's amazing how many people just don't have the ability to analyze a problem and figure out what to do.

See if you can take it but not get credit. Talk to the teacher. He may let you show up for free & not get credit.