I'm not sure how this will be implimented, if at all. There's no way the EPA can force all fuel to be E85. That means stations will need to emplace additional tanks and pumps and that simply is not possible for many gas stations.

This is another attempt to remove older vehicles from the roadways. Unless you have the money and knowledge to modify your older vehicle in order to run this crap through its piping, you're reduced to finding places that will sell 10% or less gas.

We aren't Europe, China, or Russia. We need to see who votes for this crap, or endorses it, then vote them out of office...or vote out of office those that push these people to come up with these rules.

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M. G. Burg
'10 - Dakota SXT - Daily Ride / ≈ 172.5K
.'76 - 450SLC - 107.024.12 / < .89.20 K
..'77 - 280E - 123.033.12 / > 128.20 K
...'67 - El Camino - 283ci / > 207.00 K
....'75 - Yamaha - 650XS / < 21.00 K
.....'87 - G20 Sportvan / > 206.00 K
......'85 - 4WINNS 160 I.O. / 140hp
.......'74 - Honda CT70 / Real 125
.
“I didn’t really say everything I said.”
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . ~ Yogi Berra ~

See Above.

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'84 300SD sold
124.128

I'd rather eat corn than put it in my Benz.

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For the Saved, this world is the worst it will ever get.
For the unSaved, this world is the best it will ever get.

Clk's Ebay Stuff BUY SOMETHING NOW!!!

Ethanol is one of the biggest scams ever forced on the American people. What a load of crap.

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2016 Corvette Stingray 2LT
1969 280SE
2023 Ram 1500
2007 Tiara 3200

Marvel Mystery Oil in the gasoline (according to the manufacturer) helps negate the harmful effects of ethanol.

So they say.

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Ben
1987 190d 2.5Turbo

Know any manufacturer that tells you "The product I am selling is crap"?

According to them it helps lubricity issues. Guess what! A test done proved it made it worse.

I have no faith in these snake oils. As far as I am concerned, all the are there to do is to fleece the customer. I would never use it unless they have tests done at an accredited lab using standard test procedures. But there is a reason they don't and rely on testimonials by customers.

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01 Ford Excursion Powerstroke
99 E300 Turbodiesel
91 Vette with 383 motor
05 Polaris Sportsman 800 EFI
06 Polaris Sportsman 500 EFI
03 SeaDoo GTX SC Red
03 SeaDoo GTX SC Yellow
04 Tailgator 21 ft Toy Hauler
11 Harley Davidson 883 SuperLow

X2 SQUARED

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KLK, MCSE

1990 500SL

I was always taught to respect my elders.
I don't have to respect too many people anymore.

X3 Cubed

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2021 Chevrolet Spark
Formerly...
2000 GMC Sonoma
1981 240D 4spd stick. 347000 miles. Deceased Feb 14 2021
2002 Kia Rio. Worst crap on four wheels
1981 240D 4spd stick. 389000 miles.
1984 123 200
1979 116 280S
1972 Cadillac Sedan DeVille
1971 108 280S

The owner's manual for my new Grand Marquis says what a wonderful thing E85 ethanol is and that the car can run great on it all the time.

So, are all the FoMoCo execs a big bunch of piñatas full of lies?


Can I trade the car in on one that runs on "Stupid"?

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1991 560 SEC AMG, 199k <---- 300 hp 10:1 ECE euro HV ...

1995 E 420, 170k "The Red Plum" (sold)

2015 BMW 535i xdrive awd Stage 1 DINAN, 6k, <----364 hp

1967 Mercury Cougar, 49k

2013 Jaguar XF, 20k <----340 hp Supercharged, All Wheel Drive (sold)

87, 89, 91, E85 or STUPID your choice. brought to you by the "do-gooders". 'cuz we've got to save the corn growers even if it means screwing our cars straight into the ground.

Well, if FoMoCo says it, I guess it must be true. Remember the ignition issue they had? They said it was great till...... And the fact that it helps lower their emissions so they can fit in has nothing to do with it. Sure.

I ran a truck designed to run on E85. Was miserable because the mileage sucked and the power sucked. Soon as we ran that tank low, we couldn't wait to fill up with the real stuff.

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01 Ford Excursion Powerstroke
99 E300 Turbodiesel
91 Vette with 383 motor
05 Polaris Sportsman 800 EFI
06 Polaris Sportsman 500 EFI
03 SeaDoo GTX SC Red
03 SeaDoo GTX SC Yellow
04 Tailgator 21 ft Toy Hauler
11 Harley Davidson 883 SuperLow

Not possible?

Many thought it was "not possible" to force stations to provide unleaded fuel.

The small independent stations in California blanch every time CARB opens its maw. Vapor recovery systems originated in CA and closed many independents. Then they changed the standards for recovery systems and forced the closure of more, simply because they coudn't afford to refit their stations again.

We may elect the people in congress, but they delegate their power through committees and establish federal agencies (like the EPA) to determine what is possible...whether it really is or not.

No, this is not Europe...yet. But it seems every generation here moves closer to a socialistic democracy in which the politicians simply decide what is good for us (and without any pretense of being our "representatives"). Someday in the not-too-distant future, if you want to drive a "classic" you'll probably have to live in a major metro area even to find a station that still sells "plain gas", and you can believe there will be a significant levy on it as well, and it's likely you'll also have to pay a hefty "carbon tax" in order just to own it. That assumes, of course, that they don't simply outlaw the use of conventional gasoline engines.

We may be facing a new world, but with all due respect to Mr. Huxley, I'm not sure how brave it will be.

Yup, not possible. When lead free gas became mandated, the repair shop I worked for quit selling gas because they had no room to install additional tanks. Or do you think some sort of emminent domain might apply?

Indeed. My first 2 or 3 years in the Navy, I stuck with driving my old 65 Mustang, as unleaded fuel still wasn't all that common in the areas I had to travel. Even when I bought my first new car, a 79 Mustang, I remember checking the station signs for "unleaded" before pulling into one for fuel.

Besides ethanol, there's the engine oil specs as well - SM rating that came out in 2003, and the CJ-4 spec for diesels in 2007. Both specs did the same thing - drastically lowered the amount of ZDDP, or zinc and phosphorous, in the oil - and for the same reason - to allow the use of emissions hardware mandated by the EPA.

For gas vehicles, the EPA mandated a major increase in the service life of catalytic converters. Since the zinc and phosphorous in the blow-by oil that gets sucked into the intake and burnt in the engine was one of the main causes of cats eventually "plugging up", the easiest thing for the OEM's and oil industry to do was simply come up with the SM spec that removed most of the zinc and phosphorous from the oil.

ZDDP has been used for decades as a hardening agent and film lubricant for high load areas in an engine - ie, keeping the chrome from wearing off your camshaft. If you have a newer type engine with roller lifters, not too big of a deal. But if you have an older "classic" with a flat tappet engine, you'd eventually end up trashing the engine if you don't have sufficient levels of ZDDP in the oil to protect these high load areas.

Same with the CJ-4 diesel spec. The levels of ZDDP were significantly lowered to allow the use of particulate filters (DPF's) in the exhaust on 2007 and newer diesels. Even the description of the spec on the API's website lists the primary function of CJ-4 as being "protecting the emissions hardware on 2007 and newer diesel vehicles". Yeah, screw the engine, gotta protect that particulate filter.

We've even ran into this situation at work. Since 1986 they've been using Mobilgard 450 oil in the 4500 HP dual fuel generator they have. Unbeknownst to them, over the years Mobil changed the oil to a "zinc free" low ash "railroad engine" formulation - which the tech manual specifically states you are NOT to use a zinc free oil in this engine, and specifies minimum levels of zinc/phosphorous/sulfated ash needed in the oil. A couple months back the engine suffered a geartrain casualty which has entailed a nearly complete rebuild of the engine. The managers and owners of the engine (UTSA) were quite surprised and rather embarrassed, to be told by the company contracted to rebuild the engine, that they'd been using the wrong engine oil for nearly 15 years (ie, since Mobil changed the formulation)!!! And I got a major "I told you so" because I had pointed this out and questioned the use of this type oil well over a year ago.

When the district manager called up Mobil and tried to get specs on what was in the oil and which type to use, he ended up getting the runaround, told that was "proprietary" information. We ended up going with the contractor's recommendation as to which type oil to use.

End result, in addition to having to do a complete geartrain replacement, they're going to have to replace ALL of the crankshaft and conn rod bearings as they're worn down to minimum spec. My bet is they're going to have to pull the pistons as well and replace the rings, liners, etc - in other words, a complete overhaul and upgrade. UTSA is already making noise they want to talk to the contractor about doing an overhaul and upgrade, since the deeper they dig into the engine, the more items they find that need to be corrected, and we've already got it torn apart to this extent - if for no other reason, to help comply with future emissions regulations. Guess the campus police better get hot and start handing out a bunch more $100 parking tickets.

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Just say "NO" to Ethanol - Drive Diesel

Mitchell Oates
Mooresville, NC
'87 300D 212K miles
'87 300D 151K miles - R.I.P. 12/08
'05 Jeep Liberty CRD 67K miles
Grumpy Old Diesel Owners Club