Heads Up for Jeep Liberty CRD Owners

[retmil46]

Chrysler is in the midst of discontinuing the original Bosch 7 volt ceramic glow plugs, that are used in the U.S. version of the 05/06 Jeep Liberty CRD diesels.

Word is the replacement plugs will be 5 volt metal versions, which will also require a new glow plug controller and a dealer reflash of the ECM to make it all work.

IOW, if you burn out one of your currently installed ceramic plugs, and don't have any spares on hand, you'll have to pop for 4 new metal plugs, a new controller, and a dealer reflash to boot to get everything working again.

A gent on one of the Jeep forums has already ran into this situation. He lost one glow plug, and was told by the dealer it would cost him upwards of $300 to get the new configuration installed - and that he would have to leave the Jeep at the dealership until the end of December - Chrysler is already out of stock on the ceramics, and the new metal versions won't be available until the end of the year.

On top of that, some dealerships that do have a few of the ceramics left are trying to charge outrageous prices for them - on their website, one dealership in NC was asking $128 EACH - for a glow plug that normally retails for around $35.

If you do some searching, some of the aftermarket parts sites still have the ceramics in stock, for the normal price of around $35. I managed to get ahold of two sets of spares this way 2 weeks ago.

The kicker is, same vehicle and same engine over in Europe, has used 11 volt metal glow plugs from the get-go.

This sounds too much like what VW pulled over the past year with some of their diesels - switching from 7 volt ceramics to 5 volt metals - and they made an utter botch of it - people were left with vehicles they couldn't even start in below-freezing weather unless they kept the block heater plugged in full time. One of the aftermarket tuners eventually came out with a software patch to fix VW's botched reflash (they weren't keeping the new metal plugs on for a sufficient amount of time) and make the vehicles useable again. It took VW over a year to get their act together.

[Hatterasguy]

Its a Jeep thing, that's why Chrysler sucks.

[retmil46]

Actually, I'd call it the other way around - it's a Chrysler thing, that's why current (ie, anything built after their "merger" with Daimler) Jeeps suck.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again - taking this well-built Italian diesel engine, and surrounding it with Chrysler bean-counter engineering, was akin to jamming the Hope Diamond up a goat's a$$.

[Hatterasguy]

That's why when I buy a new truck it will either be a Ford or Chevy. As good as the Cummins is its wrapped in a POS truck.

Out of all my subs only my sidder drives a Dodge, everyone else drives a Chevy or Ford.

Ford makes a better 1/2 ton frame than GM, but GM has better motors and transmissions. Toyota isn't represented because they are expensive, tend to be built lightly and rust. Plus getting a regular cab Tundra out of them is like pulling teeth, and they don't offer 3/4 and 1 ton models.

[retmil46]

No argument there. When I attended a diesel dyno day about 3 years back, the truck guys said the same thing - you buy a Powerstroke or Duramax because you want a nice truck, you buy a Dodge Ram because you want a Cummins engine.

Guess that's why transplanting a Cummins 5.9 L into a Ford or Chevy is such a popular pasttime with the truck crowd.

At the same dyno day, I put the Jeep up on the machine in it's current modified configuration - 185 HP and 340 ft/lbs at the rear wheels out of this 2.8 L turbo 4 banger - the truck guys were snickering when it first went up on the dyno - afterwards they were literally mobbing me and my friend from Charlotte (with a similarly modified CRD) asking how we'd gotten those numbers out of that small an engine - those numbers actually beat out a gent with a first-gen 5.9L Cummins at the event.

[t walgamuth]

I like my 03 Dodge with cummins just fine. I have owned fords and chevys and don't find much to recommend them over the dodge. The PT and the Magnum which I have and had were are nothing special but their biggest flaw is the poor fuel mileage.

[strelnik]

Originally Posted by retmil46

Actually, I'd call it the other way around - it's a Chrysler thing, that's why current (ie, anything built after their "merger" with Daimler) Jeeps suck.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again - taking this well-built Italian diesel engine, and surrounding it with Chrysler bean-counter engineering, was akin to jamming the Hope Diamond up a goat's a$$.

I saw all that close-up and personal for several years. That's why I allied myself with the MB guys and spent time overseas. Ultimately, it probably justified why they force my entire dept out the dorr (we all thought the same way) but all of us have landed on our feet.

And Jeep is now owned by Fiat.

Fiat does make good tractor engines, so maye they'll make one with the characteristics of the OM 617 (I believe it was originally designed as a tractor engine?) and put it in the jeep.

[chasinthesun]

I dont know if this has been asked ,can you get them straight from Bosch overseas?

[retmil46]

Originally Posted by chasinthesun

I dont know if this has been asked ,can you get them straight from Bosch overseas?

Well, a few of us tried going straight to the source, at least to the Bosch website. They don't list that particular glowplug anywhere on their website, not even in their 2010 catalog.

As far as buying them aftermarket from overseas - the export version of the 05 and up Liberty CRD, with the same engine, uses an 11 volt metal plug with the same physical dimensions.

Only the U.S. version - of which they only sold 18,000 at most in 05 and 06 - uses this particular 7 volt ceramic plug - mainly thanks to the EPA giving us different emissions specs from Europe.

Even the aftermarket parts websites here, if you do a search by year and model vehicle, most often come up with zilch. And if you do a search by the plug P/N, it pops up with the correct plug, but then says "no vehicle application known".

NAPA had them listed, but are out of stock, and say it'll be the end of the year before they get any - and I'll bet it'll be the metal version. Autozone says they're unavailable, period. Advance and OReillys doesn't even list them. Even PP doesn't list them.

I found 2 websites that still had the ceramics in stock, after I searched using the plug P/N (and got the "no vehicle application" as well). If anyone wants to know which 2 companies they are, send me a PM and I'll let you know.

Reason I'd rather give out this info via PM, than putting it out publicly - there's a particular fly-by-night tuning outfit - that ONLY deals with these 18,000 or so Jeep CRD's and popped on the scene immediately after Chrysler went bankrupt (gee, wonder who they used to work for?) - that I strongly suspect is already in the process of buying up every available glow plug they can find, so they can turn around and sell them for a premium price - as they've already done with other Jeep CRD components in the past. These guys have already asked on some public Jeep forums, that if any of their customers have to get the metal plugs and dealer reflash, to then send them their ECM so they can copy the dealer reflash for the glow plugs to incorporate into their tune - ie, avoid paying licensing fees.

[retmil46]

Originally Posted by strelnik

I saw all that close-up and personal for several years. That's why I allied myself with the MB guys and spent time overseas. Ultimately, it probably justified why they force my entire dept out the dorr (we all thought the same way) but all of us have landed on our feet.

And Jeep is now owned by Fiat.

Fiat does make good tractor engines, so maye they'll make one with the characteristics of the OM 617 (I believe it was originally designed as a tractor engine?) and put it in the jeep.

I saw it too. I spent over 11 years working for Freightliner - which was also owned by Daimler-Chrysler. From what I saw, the gents in Germany regarded CJD and Freightliner as just the hired help, to be used and abused as they saw fit, rather than equal partners.

At the same dyno day I mentioned, my friend and I ran into an engineer that used to work at the primary plant where they assembled Jeep Libertys. He related how Daimler engineers came to the plant, looked over the vehicles they were building and the parts they were using, and flat-out told them to their face "you have to use cheaper parts. Mercedes is the flagship vehicle of our company, and YOU ARE NOT ALLOWED TO BUILD A BETTER VEHICLE THAN MERCEDES" (my capitals).

Saw the same thing at Freightliner after Rainier Schmulke took over as CEO. We started using parts that were so cheap and flimsy that several large trucking companies threatened to take their business elsewhere unless they reverted to the original specs.

As far as Fiat putting a diesel in a Jeep in THIS country - from what I've heard, I'm not going to hold my breath.

[MTUpower]

All the more reason to keep your old MB diesel running strong.

Someone tell me again, why should I buy a newer car?

[catmandoo62]

as my dad used to say"buy a dodge it's always in the garage"as far as jeep.i think the end of em was about 74 or 76.that was about the last year you could get a turbo 400 transmission.after that they went chrysler trans.

[super SEC]

Isn't it a Mercedes built diesel in the car. Have you checked with Mercedes for the part?

[retmil46]

Originally Posted by super SEC

Isn't it a Mercedes built diesel in the car. Have you checked with Mercedes for the part?

Nope, it's a third party engine - made by VM Motori in Italy. At the time, they were part owned by Chrysler and Roger Penske. VM supplied Chrysler with all the diesels that went into the European version of the Liberty from day one - originally a 2.5 L, then in 04 switching over to the 2.8 version. As late as 09, they were still supplying an updated version of this same engine for export versions of the Wrangler.

Originally a marine engine, it's a solid little unit - virtually a miniature Cummins. Other than the head and oil pan, all cast iron, double balance shafts down low to cancel out the 4 cylinder vibration, variable vane turbo.