Easier farming, no till permaculture with pigs.

[RichC]

Saves a lot of work.

Wish I would have known about it.

Video:

[Ara T.]

I want a miniature pot bellied pig for a pet.

[RichC]

Originally Posted by Ara T.

I want a miniature pot bellied pig for a pet.

Are you planning on doing some container gardening ?

[catmandoo62]

free range pigs also taste fantastic.compared to the confinement hogs tyson forces on the unwiting consumer.i actually think that they are on the comeback,i see more on my daily travels then i did say 8-10 yrs ago.

[elchivito]

I stopped tilling years ago. If you think about the way a rototiller works, it's fluffing the top 6 or 8 inches of soil, but where the blades hit the bottom of their rotation they're actually compacting the soil, creating a hardpan down there that, depending on your soil type, can get so hard that plant roots can't bust thru it. When we're cleaning livestock pens and the poultry house all winter, the cleanouts get spread out on the garden and raked flat. Over the winter, it waters in and composts naturally from the bottom. By spring it's about 6 inches deep.All we have to do to plant is dig little holes and set out our new plants that are started from seed in flats indoors. The cleanouts are a mixture of waste hay, straw bedding and manure. The newest, top part forms a mulch, so there are virtually no weeds.
Before I stopped tilling, I rarely saw any worms. Now we have them by the thousands. No other fertilizers necessary.

[pj67coll]

Originally Posted by elchivito

I stopped tilling years ago. If you think about the way a rototiller works, it's fluffing the top 6 or 8 inches of soil, but where the blades hit the bottom of their rotation they're actually compacting the soil, creating a hardpan down there that, depending on your soil type, can get so hard that plant roots can't bust thru it. When we're cleaning livestock pens and the poultry house all winter, the cleanouts get spread out on the garden and raked flat. Over the winter, it waters in and composts naturally from the bottom. By spring it's about 6 inches deep.All we have to do to plant is dig little holes and set out our new plants that are started from seed in flats indoors. The cleanouts are a mixture of waste hay, straw bedding and manure. The newest, top part forms a mulch, so there are virtually no weeds.
Before I stopped tilling, I rarely saw any worms. Now we have them by the thousands. No other fertilizers necessary.

How big is your farm?

- Peter.

[elchivito]

Originally Posted by pj67coll

How big is your farm?

- Peter.

I have quite a few acres. Most of it's used for grazing and browse. The garden I'm talking about is just for the family and I barter for other stuff with neighbors or take it to the farmer's market. It's about a half acre, give or take. It's more than big enough. I'm thinking about putting in a couple acres of wine grapes if I can figure out how to do it cost effectively. The write offs for 3-5 years are pretty attractive.

[pj67coll]

Originally Posted by elchivito

I have quite a few acres. Most of it's used for grazing and browse. The garden I'm talking about is just for the family and I barter for other stuff with neighbors or take it to the farmer's market. It's about a half acre, give or take. It's more than big enough. I'm thinking about putting in a couple acres of wine grapes if I can figure out how to do it cost effectively. The write offs for 3-5 years are pretty attractive.

Nice. setup. My wifes family are all farmers back in Nebraska. She spent many hours working fields as a kid and has no desire for that kind of life on a large scale again. However I think that having the setup simliar to yours would be neat. I like the idea of a grape orchard.

- Peter.

[Benz Dr.]

I farm. Have been for almost 40 years. No till has been the best thing to hit agriculture since row croping - invented by guy whos name was Jethro Tull, not the band but a real farmer.

We had cattle until 2000 and then we got out of that. The comodities are high right now so there's a chance to make some money this year.

As for free range stock, that's a bit of an urban myth. ( where else would you find it ) Hogs that live outside usually try and find the closest water hole to take a mud bath. They do this to protect their skin from sunburn.
Outside free range animals grow more slowly, have more parsites, stress from preditors such as hawks, cyotes, dogs and other wild animals. Providing a place for some types of livestock to exercise outside in a controlled environment can be OK but it depends on your bio security measures. The higher your security level the greater the risk of contamintion.
Most free range operations are small scale hobby farms. A lot of the meat wouldn't pass USDA or Ag Canada ( the highest level there is in NA ) inspectors.

Tyson, Cargil and a few others are a whole different subject and are not to be confused with modern, well run, private operations.

[elchivito]

I agree with you to a certain extent, but the "urban myth" of free range animals is becoming more and more a reality. Take a look at Polyface Farm's operation online. The guy is one example of many. He's hugely successful and has an almost completely sustainable grass based meat business including pork. His hogs do in fact free range a good portion of the year. He rotates his pastures with moveable electric fence. He buys almost no feed or chemicals. His meat brings top dollar and demand is high. Commodity beef, poultry and pork prices are irrelevant to him. He doesn't ship, if people want his products they drive to his farm on scheduled days and pick it up.

I was born on this ranch and have seen it change from cattle and sheep to sheep and dairy goats. When I came home and took it over, it was struggling, still trying to raise beef to be sold at auction and heavily tied to the agribiz paradigm. Our riparian area along the creek had been nearly destroyed by the cattle over the years and was invaded with Bermuda.I've done pretty well with my line of show stock and heritage wool sheep. As to beef, we raise a few and have custom processing done for word of mouth customers. All grass and hay. No corn or concentrate finishing, no antibiotics or hormones. When a steer requires antibiotics, it's given them and when it's well it gets pulled and goes to auction. I do this so I don't have to lie to my customers.
As more and more people become concerned about where their food comes from and how it's grown, the paradigm will gradually change. You can see it coming a hundred miles off. Those hippies in the video will move on to some other hair brained scheme when they get bored, but there are serious farmers gradually making big changes in the way they raise food. Frankly, the mess those hogs are making in that plot looks like more work to get ready for planting than just tilling it yourself.

[pj67coll]

Originally Posted by Benz Dr.

I farm. Have been for almost 40 years.

Do you have any subsidies and if so would you be able to survive without them?

- Peter.

[RichC]

My soil here is in terrible shape.

Over farmed for years, mostly cotton which sucks out all the nutrients.

Then let sit to bake in the TX sun with no trees.

It would make really good bricks.

I have had cracks in the earth that I could stick most of my leg in during the dry season.

It has been a lot of work just to get a good garden plot going.

Three years, but now I have some worms, Yeaaa !!!

The fruit trees are coming along nicely, should have some fruit this year.

I have been growing the rest of the fruit in containers, and I hope to be able to
plant those around the fruit trees soon.

I have a local organic market that said they will buy everything I can raise.

And a couple of chefs that will trade me food for food.

And several people are waiting on the watermelons and cantaloupe.


Currently I am working on ways to retain moisture in the summer season in the garden, and capturing rainwater for irrigation.

Sure is different gardening in TX verses IN

[engatwork]

The wife wants a garden this year. This will be our first one since settling in. The biggest issue will be trying to keep deer out of it. I'll probably lay it out in an area that was used as a garden years ago because it has water piped to it. Hopefully, the wife will get the seeds picked out this weekend and I'll get the ground ready. I don't plan on using hogs to prep it. Cleaning the 3 acre blueberry patch is an on-going project. I'm removing hardwoods that have come up over the past 25 years and am cutting the blueberry bushes back to about 2' out of the ground. Some of them are over 12' tall. Anybody need some firewood stop on by and we'll load you up. US$75/truck load.

[RichC]

Yea, I am just about out of firewood.

You have a tough challenge trying to keep the deer out.

My garden is fenced in, and the whole back area from the house to the property line
is fenced in.

The dogs do a pretty good job of keeping the other critters at bay.

But the one dog likes cantaloupe.

I will be planting extra for him this year.

[Benz Dr.]

Originally Posted by elchivito

I agree with you to a certain extent, but the "urban myth" of free range animals is becoming more and more a reality. Take a look at Polyface Farm's operation online. The guy is one example of many. He's hugely successful and has an almost completely sustainable grass based meat business including pork. His hogs do in fact free range a good portion of the year. He rotates his pastures with moveable electric fence. He buys almost no feed or chemicals. His meat brings top dollar and demand is high. Commodity beef, poultry and pork prices are irrelevant to him. He doesn't ship, if people want his products they drive to his farm on scheduled days and pick it up.

I was born on this ranch and have seen it change from cattle and sheep to sheep and dairy goats. When I came home and took it over, it was struggling, still trying to raise beef to be sold at auction and heavily tied to the agribiz paradigm. Our riparian area along the creek had been nearly destroyed by the cattle over the years and was invaded with Bermuda.I've done pretty well with my line of show stock and heritage wool sheep. As to beef, we raise a few and have custom processing done for word of mouth customers. All grass and hay. No corn or concentrate finishing, no antibiotics or hormones. When a steer requires antibiotics, it's given them and when it's well it gets pulled and goes to auction. I do this so I don't have to lie to my customers.
As more and more people become concerned about where their food comes from and how it's grown, the paradigm will gradually change. You can see it coming a hundred miles off. Those hippies in the video will move on to some other hair brained scheme when they get bored, but there are serious farmers gradually making big changes in the way they raise food. Frankly, the mess those hogs are making in that plot looks like more work to get ready for planting than just tilling it yourself.

I'm not on high speed so I don't watch videos.

What you're ferring to is organic farming. It's a totaly different game with it's own set of problems. Study after study has been done that shows the quality of the food is no better ( and sometimes worse ) than conventional production.
Live stock is a different game. When we had cattle they were raised in a feed lot if they were going for beef. We had cows on pasture and we raised the calves to market weight. They always got hay along with silage and ground corn. We used soya based concentrate along with mineral and salt blocks. We used no growth hormones ( which are made from natural products BTW ) and if something needed a shot it had to be held back for a certain number of days by law or you were in big trouble.
Most people don't like range fed beef because it's generally tough and has less taste. It's the corn or barley that puts fat into the meat which gives it taste. All that is up to the consumer of course. Most of the cheap cuts that come from Oz are range fed and sold at very low prices because there's next to no cost to produce. This stuff ends up in Mac Donalds and places like that.
Having your own market and customers is one way to make it work. Those customers are willing to pay more so it can be a way to stay alive. Most of the guys around here left that market after they found out that all the extra work wasn't paying because there wasn't enough people to buy their organic produce.

If you live in an area where the land isn't that productive or is difficult to farm, i.e. rocks, washouts, forest,or steep hills that erode esily, then range fed animals is your best option. Where I live you can get 175 BPA corn, 85 wheat, 45 beans, 40 tonnes of sugar beets, 30 tons of tomatoes and other high yielding crops. Organics wouldn't pay as well on any of those crops.