Before owning one I thought the Prius was all hype and that people weren't saving any money by buying or leasing a new hybrid. Any savings in gas was offset by car payments. I still believe that, but I think if you can afford a new hybrid, or better yet find a used one for fairly cheap, the savings in gas will actually mean something.

After buying a used first-gen Honda Insight, I can't think of ever going back to conventional gas engine cars. I get average low to mid 50s in the city and upwards of high 70s on the freeway. My fill-up intervals are 5-6 weeks. Now with gas prices in SoCal going up again (what's up with that?), I think a hybrid is the way to go. When I see big single-occupancy SUVs or big pick-ups, especially lifted up ones--I don't mean work SUVs or trucks that people use because they need to but those that are status symbols--I think to myself "suckers"

But I still want an SL500!

I like those first gen Insights. Very cool cars! They aren't bad on a twisty road either huh? Love lightweight 2 seaters.

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1985 CA 300D Turbo , 213K mi

Meh gas isn't that expensive, I rather just buy a diesel MB I can live with 30mpg in a full size, powerful, comfortable car.

Fuel isn't a huge expenses, even my truck only burns about $2,300 a year at 15mpg.

When it hits $10 a gallon than something like that would start to make a lot of sense, well I'd buy an electric car at that point and just rent a gas car for trips.

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2016 Corvette Stingray 2LT
1969 280SE
2023 Ram 1500
2007 Tiara 3200

I have read recently that hybrids only save money when gas is above $4/gallon. Not sure why more people in the US don't look at the diesel alternative, as that would be my choice over hybrids. If you look at Europe, about 50% of vehicles are diesel.

"High 70's on the freeway"? I doubt it. If it were true, Honda wouldn't be able to keep up with demand for that car. Also, hybrids typically get better mileage in local driving, as they use regenerative braking, which doesn't exist on the freeway when the gas engine is the sole source of power.

I don't drive one, but the cat lady down the street has a sparkly new Prius. She used to give me a dirty look and thumbs down every time I drove by in the 420SEL.

I stopped all that when I did a burnout in front of her house one morning with my ironhead Sporty running straight pipes.

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"I was a dirty bird, Carol's not grungey - she's *****in" John Milner....American Graffiti

I do have a diesel alternative and I got it only because I was doing a lot of long distance travel of 150-200 miles a day. Today, if I had to get another vehicle, it sure as hell won't be a diesel since my commute is much shorter regardless of what Europe does, wants to do or doesn't do.

1. Fuel price can fluctuate by up to 10 cents from place to place. Gas price is more stable.

2. Fuel stinks and you have to wear gloves. No such issue with gas.

3. Second class citizen at the pump. So few pumps with diesel and so many more with gas and some azzhat blocking your pump.

4. Pump areas are usually dirty including the nozzle. See #2

5. Diesel has gelling issues when it gets too cold.

6. Every fuel station sells gas. Not ever station sells diesel.

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01 Ford Excursion Powerstroke
99 E300 Turbodiesel
91 Vette with 383 motor
05 Polaris Sportsman 800 EFI
06 Polaris Sportsman 500 EFI
03 SeaDoo GTX SC Red
03 SeaDoo GTX SC Yellow
04 Tailgator 21 ft Toy Hauler
11 Harley Davidson 883 SuperLow

Only Siths deal in absolutes, Darth Aklim. I pass by a fuel station along I-70 in PA. It only list the price of diesel. I think it only sells to semi-trucks.
As for the milage claim of 70 mpg, I don't trust the electronic fuel monitors. So, fill up your tank. Then drive it. Record the miles and fill up. Divide miles driven by the gallons to fill it up.
I do know someone with one of the early Insites. He does claim 65 mpg or so. The car does look very aerodynamic. So, I am not discounting, that it can/does get this milage. Also, a variant of the Geo Metro, the Pontiac Fire Fly was suppose to get 65 mpg or so.
Tom

I drove one for a week, an Enterprise 2010 Toyota Prius. Nice cabin space for a compact car; decent acceleration but there's no escaping the handling and relatively light feel of a compact car. Not particularly confidence inspiring cornering and subject to being tossed around a bit by crosswinds.

Those first insights were very efficient, but at the cost of performance IIRC. Being a bunch of old diesel owners (among other vehicles) I don't think the performance would be a deterrant for us. I have ridden in several new prius' and haven't seen above 32mpg on any of them because the drivers have no clue how to get good mileage through their right foot.

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TC
Current stable:
- 2004 Mazda RALLYWANKEL
- 2007 Saturn sky redline
- 2004 Explorer...under surgery.

Past: 135i, GTI, 300E, 300SD, 300SD, Stealth

I have a 2010 Milan hybrid (same chassis as Fusion and Lincoln MKZ).

A hybrid "premium" price wasn't an issue since I bought it when the 2011's were out, after Ford announced the phaseout of Mercury, at the end of 2010 when the dealer wanted them off his lot (he had 6 left). I paid a LOT less than sticker and got a very nicely equipped car.

There are no performance/driveability tradeoffs based on acceleration. Handling, braking, etc is normal as compared to the 2-3 rental gas-powered Fusions I've driven.

I get an "honest" average of between 38-40 mpg in combined driving on regular gas. (miles driven/fuel burned, not what the readout says). My worst mpg was when the engine had to run longer in order to warm up the car to meet the climate control requested temp.

In an mpg-cents per mile comparison, the 38-40 mpg on regular would have a 10% premium over diesel due to the higher cost of diesel. Availability of biodiesel could mitigate that due to tax breaks, but the only biodiesel retailer in the 7th largest city in America closed so that's not an option (how's that for options). Stations near my house are about 50/50 with or without diesel. I can't assume there's a pump there.

In the Ford hybrid implementation acceleration hurts mpg the most. Stop and go is on the battery (unless you have a heavy right foot). Cruise on the highway and it's gas+supplemental battery.

I've changed my driving to avoid the congested and jam-prone freeways (abysmal sprawl in San Antonio) and get to work quicker on less gas over surface streets.

But if I was doing a lot of highway driving - I might consider a new diesel. I believe the strength of the hybrid is in the regenerative braking and the computer controlled shut-off while stopped, not on highway cruising.

I agree with Yak that owning a hybrid has made me more active in the driving process to maximize fuel efficiency. However, I'm no hypermiler but as I drive the Insight more I've picked up on techniques that will bring out the car's potential in increasing mpg.

Since getting my Insight, I only fill up when near empty to get a better idea of how much gas I used. And with each gas recipt I will write down avegae mpg for that tank and total distance driven, plus any notes that might explain increase or decrease in mpg. I mainly use my car to commute to work and much of my driving is in the city with numerous lights and involves stops and deceleration/acceleration typical of city driving. From my computer reading, I average ~53mpg on each fill-up. My calculations of dividing miles driven by gallons consumed pretty matches the computer reading. Keep in mind this is only city driving. When I do take the freeway, it bumps my mpg average higher. My fill-up ended with an avergae of 55.4mpg. But when I did the calculations, the car's computer seemed 1.7mpg higher. I don't know if that had anything to do with the insanely high freeway mpg I got that bumped the avergae up.

Anyhow, about the Prius. I've read that the Prius can achieve 50-60 mpg. But it seems people I've taked to say they only get mid to high 40s.

The reality is that a hybrid carries a huge initial and huge recycling energy cost that is hidden. The most efficient vehicle remains a high MPG small diesel as there are no extensive electronics and batteries to deal with.

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-diesel is not just a fuel, its a way of life-
'15 GLK250 Bluetec 118k - mine - (OC-123,800)
'17 Metris(VITO!) - 37k - wifes (OC-41k)
'09 Sprinter 3500 Winnebago View - 62k (OC - 67k)
'13 ML350 Bluetec - 95k - dad's (OC-98k)
'01 SL500 - 103k(km) - dad's (OC-110,000km)
'16 E400 4matic Sedan - 148k - Brothers (OC-155k)

I agree, most reading I have done states that the overall environmental cost of a Hybrid vs a regular car is negative.
You save gas while in use, but the energy creating and disposing of the various specialty item negates any savings and then some.

While I drive a gas vehicle, I personally feel diesel is the way to go. They (mostly from my readings here) provide better gas mileage, seem to last much longer, are just as clean and biodiesel is much less destructive overall.
It does not disrupt food stocks and is not as energy energy negative, ethanol from what I've read takes about 7 units of energy to produce 10. Ethanol IMHO is a government boondogle here.

I have also read some information that refining oil to diesel requires less energy than gas.

I do feel though that Hybrids are a good interim solution until a better solution is found.

I think pure electrics (even the volt) are also very good interim solutions, many people can do much of their general driving within it's limited range.
Although I feel they need to do better, I figure 75ish miles to a charge is about right. Despite GMs claims of 40 miles to a charge, I am reading the real number is in the mid 30s, which is BARE minimum IMHO.

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KLK, MCSE

1990 500SL

I was always taught to respect my elders.
I don't have to respect too many people anymore.

My wife drives a 2001 Prius. We bought it in 2006 with 53K miles. It now has 110K. We spent $13K to buy the car, which is admittedly high for a subcompact its age at the time, but mileage was obviously quite low.

But beyond that, the cost of operation has been outstanding.

In 54K miles I have done the following maintenance to the car:
New tires, summer and winter; Change coolant (engine and inverter); Change trans fluid; Change plugs (tho they probably didn't need it); a new accessory battery (a little gel type unit); and a new serp belt.

Most recently I replaced some light bulbs for the climate controls, changed the PCV valve at 100K and installed a new gasket on the fuel filler cap to resolve a check engine light.

That's it beyond oil changes (the car takes three quarts per change).

So the "hidden costs" seem to have remained in hiding for me.

The main traction battery appears to be doing fine. There was a service bulletin on the car to reseal cell terminals to prevent electrolyte leakage, which has the potential to shorten battery life. But my impression from Internet forum chatter is that the batteries are generally holding up quite well.

As a driving experience, the early Prius feels like an economy subcompact. I drove it on a 200-mile round trip last summer and felt pretty beat up by the time it was over. The newer models are a more refined ride on the highway. And they all seem to do better on economy while driving in town. The EPA mileage numbers reflect that.

I had been commuting (40 highway miles one way) in my 300td but it's been semiretired in favor of a car I've found cheaper to operate: a '95 BMW 540i. Miles per gallon is about the same as the diesel, for which fuel comes at a premium these days.