Even WITH correction, if you don't know the FULL amount of taxes you are paying, how do you make a comparison? Even if I told you to multiply it by a factor of X and you get inflation correct values, the other part of the equation eludes you so how do you figure? Do you know what you paid in taxes in 2010? I don't. All I know is what I wrote to the IRS. Not the sales tax, city tax, county tax, dog catcher tax, stadium tax, whorehouse tax, etc, etc. As I asked, what about the businesses that get taxed? Surely they pass it on so again, I am paying a tax that I don't figure in.

By design, it is confusion so you think you are getting a deal by me reducing your tax check but in reality, to pay for those things you got, I increase or add on other taxes which trickle down to you in the end. Unless you are going to argue that the trickle down factor is the same then as it is now, how can you assess the difference?

You really should be keeping those tax records for at at least 5 years. I can pull up record of exactly what was taken out of my pay for further back than that.....now like you implied.....what I spent on sales taxes...fuel taxes....restarant taxes etc....I can't venture a guess. Nor what I have paid in higher prices due to corporate taxes that raised the price on good I've bought.

And yeah....like you said...it really is all smoke and miorrors meant to confuse all but the most tedious accountants.

I do. 8 years. 1 more than the recommended 7. Every year, there is a burning of the one 8 years old

That is why I said that the IRS statements we keep, nobody knows. THAT is why I believe the picture is muddied. That is why I said, it is easier and more efficient to simply levy a sales tax and NO OTHER taxes. Buy $100 of stuff, pay $X in taxes. After all, you tax the infrastructure so that infrastructure should be paid to keep you happy. No deductions of ANY sort. And it does give everyone who purchases stuff some skin in the game.

Which is the way they want it. Nobody misses a dollar here, a dollar there so no grumbles. Sales tax ONLY will make people scream when you need more money and have to change the percentage of tax and you need a justification. It will NOT keep them honest. Just LESS dishonest.

Here's a tax loophole we can close.
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011/09/02/undocumented-workers-pocketed-42-billion-in-tax-credits-audit-shows/

Corrected for inflation the lowest tax bracket would still have been raised 10% and top bracket lowed 15%. I don't see the need to correct for inflation since the tax brackets have been adjusted for inflation.

Taxes have become less progressive.

If that is all we are being taxed, you are correct. Unfortunately, it isn't. As I have said, you take $1 off this and add $0.50 to that, that and that, and I might be paying more than before you took $1 off. Now, do you or do you not have a figure as to how much taxes I am paying for directly and indirectly? I think not. Even my accountant doesn't know for sure since there are so many variables. So how does that raw number mean anything when you don't know the rest of the information?

So?

All those other taxes, besides fed, make taxes less progressive, something that you should like.

For example the gas tax, someone with a middle income is likely to spend a larger percentage of their income on the gas tax compared to higher income.
Regressive taxation.

So.
Fed taxes have been becoming less progressive, the hidden complicated taxes are not progressive and often are regressive.

We need a law that determines income fairness.

For example, anybody making more money than me is unfair.

Give me the money they have as it is not fair for them to have what I want.

In hours worked gas is relatively cheap today.

http://www.usnews.com/news/slideshows/the-10-priciest-years-for-gas/11

Without all ends of the equation, we cannot tell, can we? I don't care if it is progressive or regressive or whatever. I prefer fair, if it is all the same to you. The fairest I can see would be a sales tax ONLY and the next would be a flat tax on everyone which leaves some out of the equation. But as I said, you cannot see whether I am paying more today than way back when simply because there are so many variables that it makes it an impossible task for anyone.

So what would you call those that make more than you? Kulaks? :D

That is so 1930! I call them undeserving fatcat parasites living off the labor of others. We should just seize all of their immoral treasure and distribute it among the nation so that all of us can have equality in all things. That's fair.

That is so 1917!

From 1982-2011 the bottom bracket went up 10% the top down 15% for a 25% change. How could the hidden taxes your accountant can't measure offset this? Since we can't measure every tax it is possible that those unknown unknowns went down.


A flat tax would have deductions, Forbes proposal had gave $42K for a family of four.

What is the 'right' rate? Is it immutably static? If not, how should it change over time?

Be specific.