Charles Koch to Friedrich Hayek: Use Social Security

[Local2ED]

Charles Koch to Friedrich Hayek: Use Social Security! | The Nation

[elchivito]

Originally Posted by Local2ED

Charles Koch to Friedrich Hayek: Use Social Security! | The Nation

Thank you for that link. Sadly, is anyone surprised?

[Botnst]

Hell, I'm opposed to social security but after paying in for 40 years, damn straight I'll take it.

I'm still going to support any political movement taht wants it privatized. I'd prefer not to saddle my grandchildren with that downward-spiralling boondoggle.

[732002]

Originally Posted by Botnst

Hell, I'm opposed to social security but after paying in for 40 years, damn straight I'll take it.

You think Warren Buffet should voluntarily pay more taxes because of his opinions on tax rates for the rich. Shouldn't you do the same with SS and refuse to take benefits?

Wealth distribution PBS news hour.
Top 20%=85% of the wealth. If you include SS benefits, as wealth, the top 20%=55% of the wealth.

[elchivito]

Oh. So it's ok to be against it and still collect. That means that those of us who are going to collect it get to get rid of it and thumb our noses at those who may have paid into it but won't get anything....cool!

[aklim]

Originally Posted by elchivito

Oh. So it's ok to be against it and still collect. That means that those of us who are going to collect it get to get rid of it and thumb our noses at those who may have paid into it but won't get anything....cool!

I'm not understanding your logic so please explain it CLEARLY for me.

Your logic goes that IF I am against something, I should not collect it. Fair enough.

HOWEVER, if that something took something from me, what is the logic of saying that because I am against it, I should not attempt to recover my money?

Now if I didn't pay into it, I can understand your point. What you are asking me to do is to forfeit my claim simply because I disagree with it ALTHOUGH I WAS FORCED TO GIVE UP MY MONEY IN THE FIRST PLACE. So if you write me a bad check, should I give up my claim on it simply because I disagree with writing bad checks?

[Botnst]

They have my money, damned right I want it back.

You present it as a binary choice. Will you not open you mind to other possibilities?

[elchivito]

Originally Posted by Botnst

They have my money, damned right I want it back.

You present it as a binary choice. Will you not open you mind to other possibilities?

Sure. What are they?

[MagnumPI]

Consider it a roundabout way of recovering stolen property.

[crs82]

Why could SS not slowly be phased out? As in 10-12 years? This huge number of Baby Boomers is going to go the way of the dodo, and fewer of the population will remain. They will require less money as a whole.
Bring SS back to its original intent. Support only the orphans and widows. Not as a retirement account for the general public.

[Honus]

Originally Posted by crs82

Why could SS not slowly be phased out? As in 10-12 years? This huge number of Baby Boomers is going to go the way of the dodo, and fewer of the population will remain. They will require less money as a whole.
Bring SS back to its original intent. Support only the orphans and widows. Not as a retirement account for the general public.

I do not understand this at all. Do you want to phase out motherhood and apple pie, too? Social Security is an unambiguous success. It has been keeping Americans out of poverty for over 70 years. It is highly efficient, with much,much lower overhead costs than similar private sector retirement vehicles. It adds nothing to the deficit and won't add anything to the deficit if we make minor adjustments every now and then.

[Botnst]

"Unambiguous success" is a peculiar assertion, since a sizable portion of voters believe otherwise and it is on a trajectory of failure.

It adds nothing to teh deficit because of a dishonest slight-of-hand in which congress accepts the money from payers and then write an IOU into a special account and then spends the money. How much money is in the social security account?

[Honus]

Originally Posted by Botnst

"Unambiguous success" is a peculiar assertion, since a sizable portion of voters believe otherwise and it is on a trajectory of failure.

In my opinion, it is an unambiguous success. Others disagree, although their arguments always seem to be based on ideology, not on any problems with the way the system works or what's needed to keep it working. Those people don't like what social security does, but I have not seen any of them make the case that it fails to do what it is intended to do.

Trajectory of failure? That's a peculiar assertion, since a sizable portion, as it just about 100%, of the experts believe otherwise.

It adds nothing to teh deficit because of a dishonest slight-of-hand in which congress accepts the money from payers and then write an IOU into a special account and then spends the money. How much money is in the social security account?

Dishonest accounting? You mean the way they hide the fact that social security not only meets every single one of its obligations, and will continue to do so, despite funding substantial parts of the government not related to social security? Is that the dishonestly you mean? If so, then I agree because more people should know that Social Security works better than just about anything else in this country, whether public or private.

As for the balance in the account, I don't know. Social Security is pretty much pay as you go.

[kerry]

The most telling feature in the account is Koch's apparent unwillingness to help Mr. Hayek should he run into medical problems in the USA since private charity is the alternative to public charity in the mind of the libertarian.

[Botnst]

Maybe it's just me, I don't know. But I never heard of these Kock Brothers until the leftyish media commentators began trying to tie them to something. Hell, they maybe crooks, I don't know. They seem to be an important source of money for rightwingers running for office. So what?

Concerning social security (and medicare), I deeply resent the charade of not including their cost in my total tax receipts. To me, they're a tax.

Let's say I guarantee your retirement if you'll pay me a monthly portion of your income. So you pay me and I take that money and buy a ne kitchen appliance and write an IOU which I stick in a safety deposit box on which I have to pay monthly rent. That's social security.