David Brooks on social class

[kerry]

For years I've been bemoaning the social changes in our neighborhood as house prices rise and apartments are consolidated into single family homes. I doubt even two people on teacher's salaries would qualify for a mortgage in our neighborhood anymore. Brooks talks about those changes. His solution is inadequate but the problem is real.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/31/opinion/brooks-the-great-divorce.html

[pj67coll]

Originally Posted by kerry

For years I've been bemoaning the social changes in our neighborhood as house prices rise and apartments are consolidated into single family homes. I doubt even two people on teacher's salaries would qualify for a mortgage in our neighborhood anymore. Brooks talks about those changes. His solution is inadequate but the problem is real.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/31/opinion/brooks-the-great-divorce.html

Indeed. But what is the solution in a society that rejects compulsion?

- Peter.

[tbomachines]

Sounds like reminiscing about the "good ol' days" to me, not realizing the immense changes that have occurred behind the scenes to cause this to happen.

Reminds me of the "everyone now is immoral" argument

[spdrun]

Originally Posted by kerry

For years I've been bemoaning the social changes in our neighborhood as house prices rise and apartments are consolidated into single family homes. I doubt even two people on teacher's salaries would qualify for a mortgage in our neighborhood anymore. Brooks talks about those changes. His solution is inadequate but the problem is real.

Where's your neighborhood, and has the real-estate correction (note: not crash, because "crash" would imply a bad thing) not fixed the problem to some extent there?

I also question Brooks' data ... there were probably some luxury cars available for more than the Caddy Biarritz, $50k doesn't seem out of line for a Caddy today. And I know quite a few "working-class" (ex: husband owns a one-man carpentry shop in Harlem, wife works for the city) people who live in Manhattan below 96th (actually in my building). Yeah, neighborhoods do change. Some grow richer, others poorer -- that's the way it is. Detroit has the opposite problem from Manhattan.

Regarding house prices, I think the average house price in the US is about $150k. You can easily buy a 2-3 bdr condo or even a house in some of the nicer suburbs of NYC for about $300k, which fits right in to his "2x the price" rule. Same goes for San Diego and its suburbs (e.g. Carlsbad). Not sure if "new" houses are valid as a comparison point anymore, since we're not in the same type of building boom as we were in the 60s.

BTW - I wouldn't be opposed to a national service system and a Swiss-type of system of a militia with a professional core, to be used for defense only. There I agree with Brooks, but I don't see the situation being as dire and polarized as it was. If anything, there was more racism and classism in the 1960s.

[75Sv1]

I agree with his basic premise. Some cost like college education and health care are rising faster than wages. I don't think the Caddy is a good example. Some car cost have rissen. So have wages to an extent. What was the median and average income vs median and average price for a car back then. Also, use a mid sized sedan as the price factor. I would say $3k back then vs $25K to $30K today. Some vehicles upscaled them selves at times. The Corvette was about $18K till 82. Then jumped to $24K in '84. It price rose over the years. Now I think roughly $50K to $60K.
Also, the property of the coast have driven upwards fast. The Midwest has been stagnant for about 15 years.

I also wonder about the effects of mixing the two groups. Do you dilute the top end? Do you drag them down? Or does the lower class learn new skills and rise? Hard to say. Also, it would probably take a few generations to conform to new norms.
Tom

[kerry]

Originally Posted by spdrun

Where's your neighborhood, and has the real-estate correction (note: not crash, because "crash" would imply a bad thing) not fixed the problem to some extent there?

Downtown Denver. Not substantially. The correction did not have a huge impact in our neighborhood.