Irony alert.

....that pesky civilian control called for in the Constitution.;)

:P

My thought as well. But hey, he cooks a mean pot of coffee and y'ought to try his boiled eggs.

gee, larry, did you ever hear of dien bien phu?

familiar with the elections in the 50's?

care to explain why a "domino" engaged in a border war with it's alleged "red brother" (aka china)?

Yep, that's it! The thing is though, there were civilians with common sense in the 40's, but that started sinking fast along about 1950.

The Chicoms were allies of the North Koreans. The allies of the NVA were the Russians. There has been a long lasting conflict between China & Vietnam.

To whit:

"China and Vietnam have interacted since the Chinese Warring States Period and the Vietnamese Thục Dynasty of the 3rd century BC, as noted in the Vietnamese historical record Đại Việt sử ký toàn thư. Between the 1st century BC and 15th century AD, Vietnam was subject to four separate periods of imperial Chinese domination, although it successfully asserted a degree of independence following the Battle of Bạch Đằng River in 938 AD.

Vietnam's later military conquests often brought it into diplomatic conflict with China. After Vietnam (then known as Annam) destroyed Champa in the a 1471 invasion, it attempted the conquest of Malacca. In 1474, the Chinese government sent a censor, Ch'en Chun, to Champa to install a new king, but he discovered Vietnamese soldiers had taken over Champa and were blocking his entry. He proceeded to Malacca instead, and its ruler sent back tribute to China.[2] Malacca again sent envoys to China in 1481 to inform the Chinese that, while Malaccan envoys were returning to Malacca from China in 1469, the Vietnamese attacked the Malaccans, killing some of them while castrating the young and enslaving them. The Chinese Emperor sent a letter to the Vietnamese ruler reproaching him for the incident, and also ordered the Malaccans to raise soldiers to defend themselves against the Vietnamese in the event of another invasion.[3][4]

In 1884, during the time of Vietnam's Nguyễn Dynasty, Qing China and France fought a war which ended in a Chinese defeat. The resulting Treaty of Tientsin recognized French dominance over Vietnam and Indochina, spelling the end of formal Chinese influence on Vietnam, and the beginning of Vietnam's French colonial period.:"


During the Vietnam War (1954–75), North Vietnam balanced relations with its two major allies, the Soviet Union and the People's Republic of China.

In 1964, Zhou Enlai, worried about the escalation of U.S. forces in South Vietnam, made an informal agreement with the North. The agreement stipulated that if U.S. and South Vietnamese forces invaded North Vietnam, the Chinese would respond by loaning pilots to the North. During the invasion, Mao Zedong failed to send as many trained pilots as he promised. As a result, the North became more reliant on the Soviet Union for its defense.[1]

"By 1975, tension began to grow as Beijing increasingly viewed Vietnam as a potential Soviet instrument to encircle China. Meanwhile, Beijing's increasing support for Cambodia's Khmer Rouge sparked Vietnamese suspicions of China's motives.

Vietnamese-Chinese relations deteriorated significantly after Hanoi instituted a ban in March 1978 on private trade, a move that particularly affected the Sino-Vietnamese sector of the population. Following Vietnam's December 1978 invasion of Cambodia, China launched a retaliatory invasion of Vietnam's northern border region. Faced with severance of Chinese aid and strained international relations, Vietnam established even closer ties with the Soviet Union and its allies in the Comecon member states. Throughout the 1980s, Vietnam received nearly US$3 billion a year in economic and military aid from the Soviet Union and conducted most of its trade with the U.S.S.R. and Comecon countries. Soviet and Eastern bloc economic aid, however, ceased after the break-up of the Soviet Union."

dien bien phu was the beginning of the end for the French colonial empire to retain it's Indochinan colonies. The French were not capable of fighting an extended war with Ho & his boys.

Neither were we.

that, is the most laughable quote you have ever made. We were completely capable of destroying the NVA in a full out war. Our forces were not directed to do that, for whatever reason the NCA gave. As an example, bombing the dikes protecting Hanoi and other total war tactics, as well as pursuing and fixing and fighting major NVA units would have defeated them militarily. The politicians and the media lost that war for the US and they have the blood of over 50k Americans on their hands for going to war half assed and squandering our human capital.

obviously, neither were the americans. wars of occupation never end well. the french learned that ten years later, in algeria. and the u.s. learned that, in vietnam, lebanon, somalia, iraq and afghanistan.

Neither are we or will we be. That's a rhyme, pal.

Careful using that "common sense" term around here Larry, it seems to be highly contested

oh, don't do that on my account. Larry can say whatever he wants to me - i will never be offended. i just want to know what goes on his mind. and tx jake's, of course. once a soldier, always a soldier. larry would be surprised to know that i was recruited by west point as a high school senior. yes, they sent an unsolicited letter and application to me. my father was thrilled; me, not so much.:D

anyway, i am sure larry gave his all in vietnam. (which i respect. sad, though, that it was all a con.:( )

I would never turn in Larry, I find him extremely entertaining.;)


never turn in anyone for that matter. getting all riled on an internet forum is not my thing.

yeah, it's fascinating - or frightening? :D - to check in here, and see what most people really believe. though it does feed into my feelings of alienation from society.