And a Right Wing talking point fades away.... - Page 2 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

cmac2012 · #16 05-31-2012, 04:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LarryBible

OH! You mean his highness B.O. built the refinery? OH! That's different. He probably went out there and sweated with a welding lead in his hand and did it all by himself. You know, like how HE killed Bin Laden?

That's different then!

I suppose you think, though, that Romney created $200 million in wealth while sitting on his ass in his 3 piece suit.

tbomachines · #17 05-31-2012, 04:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tbomachines

They just closed a refinery in Marcus Hook, PA. Instead of tearing it down and disposing of it, they're just leaving it there until someone else foots the bill. That area already has something like twice the cancer rates of the rest of the surrounding areas

Also going to add this (Chester, PA is right next to Marcus Hook which I mentioned)

Environmental racism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Its an interesting perspective

MS Fowler · #18 05-31-2012, 04:12 PM

Regardless of who claims credit, or who takes credit, or who is helped politically, I am glad for the new/ or reopened/ expanded refinery. Lets do a dozen more. People will be picking up paychecks and paying taxes rather than collecting unemployment.
Its all good.

Air&Road · #19 05-31-2012, 04:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PaulC

Gee, all those smiley faces and platitudes on your after-ban posts, and the point count still manages to move up? Sounds as if you have an upcoming date with destiny...

Yeah, and I'm SURE that you know NOTHING about it!

Air&Road · #20 05-31-2012, 04:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MS Fowler

Regardless of who claims credit, or who takes credit, or who is helped politically, I am glad for the new/ or reopened/ expanded refinery. Lets do a dozen more. People will be picking up paychecks and paying taxes rather than collecting unemployment.
Its all good.

AGREED!

Air&Road · #21 05-31-2012, 04:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cmac2012

I suppose you think, though, that Romney created $200 million in wealth while sitting on his ass in his 3 piece suit.

Well, let's see.... Since his wealth was built with investment and his Dad's money as the seed, then yeah, that's pretty much it.

Dudesky · #22 05-31-2012, 04:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pooka

With great sadness the Right Wing press is faced with the passing of one of it's favorite talking points/fables: No new oil refineries have been built in the US in twenty years.

Today Motiva announced the opening of its' refinery expansion in Port Arthur, Texas. Once a 275,000 bbl. a day facility it is now a 600,000 a day facility. All of the expansion is new and built from the ground up as a brand new refinery. I am no good at attaching links; maybe someone else can.

Work was started five years ago and has continued the entire time the Right Wing Press was telling us that no refinery construction was underway in the US. And even worse, Obama has made no effort to stop the construction of the refinery even though it has been widely reported that he is doing almost nothing but trying to stop such developments.

Another refinery is also about to double in size in the Northwest, and two refineries in Tulsa have just finished expanding. The Sunoco refineries that the Right Wing press have been speaking about closing were just purchased and will not only stay open but also plan to expand. I guess the Right Wing Press must have missed that story, so I am glad to be able to bring it to their attention.

Of course all this expansion will result in a lot of jobs paying around $32 an hour. I guess the new talking point will be just think of how many more Union jobs would have been created if Obama were not President.

Hummmm..... Might have to rethink that last one.

Find where new refineries are being built on property other than existing refineries.
NIMBY stops that.

hill · #23 05-31-2012, 04:48 PM

"The taxpayers with the bill for the clean-up. I don't know what it cost to tear down a refinery, but we got to pay for it since the owner could not be found."

Did he pull a Bain and take the retirement fund to?

Pooka · #24 05-31-2012, 05:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tbomachines

They just closed a refinery in Marcus Hook, PA. Instead of tearing it down and disposing of it, they're just leaving it there until someone else foots the bill. That area already has something like twice the cancer rates of the rest of the surrounding areas

Energy Transfers is involved in buying the refineries that SUNOCO has not already sold to The Caryle Group. Energy Transfers is also buying a lot of SUCOCO Logistics which is a money making enterprise.

It is my understanding that a final decision has not been made on what to do with Marcus Hook, but restarting it is under consideration. That's why it is still standing there.

It is also possible that some of it will be torn down and then rebuilt. The big attraction to a site like this is that all the infrastructure is in place and new pipelines don't have to be laid to receive and deliver.

Pooka · #25 05-31-2012, 05:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dudesky

Find where new refineries are being built on property other than existing refineries.
NIMBY stops that.

Nope. It is a simple matter of economics.

Building a refinery means training a new crew to operate it. This is a very expensive undertaking.

Expanding a refinery means that you can ramp up employees as you expand out. It can take years to be good at some refinery jobs.

There is also the infrastructure involved. You need a source of fresh water, like a river, because you need a lot of steam. You also need to have pipelines laid to bring in crude and take out refined products. This can cost almost as much as building a small refinery.

And small refineries are not the way to make money. If ever there was a business where economies of scale mattered it is oil refining.

So siting is important, and expanding an existing site can be done at about 50% of the cost of starting from scratch.

Some refineries have been closed and torn down over the years, but they were smaller ones that cost a lot to run. When any facility starts to lose money it is time to do something about it, and with smaller refineries that have no room to expand shutting down is the only solution.

Pooka · #26 05-31-2012, 05:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hill

"The taxpayers with the bill for the clean-up. I don't know what it cost to tear down a refinery, but we got to pay for it since the owner could not be found."

Did he pull a Bain and take the retirement fund to?

According to those that worked there the owner took every dime and no one has seen them since.

Pooka · #27 05-31-2012, 05:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Txjake

thank goodness refineries are expanding.... having grown up about 50 miles east of Port Arthur, back when there was CONSTANT expansion and growth of the petro chemical facilities from Houston to New Orleans, this is welcome news. Now, drill, baby, drill....

I once asked a Lease Operator there if he ever ran into any Cottonmouths in that area and he said no. The Gators had eaten them all.

He once got stuck on some raised road leading down to Cameron because a big Gator had decided to take a nap on the road. He could not turn around and he did not want to back up for ten miles. He kept honking his horn until the Gator decided to lumber off.

People that don't work in the oil business have no idea of the weird stuff that goes on to bring that stuff to market.

flymehomenow · #28 05-31-2012, 06:18 PM

As you said, rightly, there is no big deal in expanding an existing refinery, the permitting is much less stringent than getting a permit for a new refinery being developed from greenfield construction.

No new coal fired power plant has been built since Zimmer Power plant just east of Cincinnati on the Ohio River. That was opened in the mid-70's. Look it up.

Air&Road · #29 05-31-2012, 06:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flymehomenow

As you said, rightly, there is no big deal in expanding an existing refinery, the permitting is much less stringent than getting a permit for a new refinery being developed from greenfield construction.

No new coal fired power plant has been built since Zimmer Power plant just east of Cincinnati on the Ohio River. That was opened in the mid-70's. Look it up.

Yes, I think the word EXPANSION is the key. There were probably some existing permits of some sort that didn't have to be obtained from scratch had it been built on new property. Don't know, just speculating.

Since66 · #30 05-31-2012, 07:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MS Fowler

Regardless of who claims credit, or who takes credit, or who is helped politically, I am glad for the new/ or reopened/ expanded refinery. Lets do a dozen more. People will be picking up paychecks and paying taxes rather than collecting unemployment.
Its all good.

Oooooh.......noooooooo! We don't want people picking up paychecks and paying taxes! We want to keep those unemployment numbers high so we can use it for ammunition against O. After all, seeing to it that his administration is a failure and he loses in November is MUCH more important than the welfare of the American work force. To hell with the country, let's just get OUR guys back in so we can get our tax breaks. And, as for the refinery re-opening: just give Three Piece Suit Romney credit for that. He'll figure out a way to spin it to his advantage anyway.
[/right wingnut rant]