New York City Marathon Still On For Sunday
 

Folks are still without power, many without homes and looting is taking place. Some neighborhoods are still isolated and help has been slow coming. The generators are rolling in to support the marathon which will divert needed resources and manpower from their current, far more important, task at hand. 26.2 miles of NYC roadways will need to be secured while the city is still in rescue & assessment-mode. Recovery & rebuild-mode hasn't yet begun.

Should it be postponed or should it go on? I suppose the runners could be bringing much needed cash into the city, but where can they spend it? I'd imagine the hotel rooms they stay in aren't going to be in the city either.

I understand there are a lot of logistics involved in putting on an event like this and planning has been taking place since the end of last year's marathon. Some runners train for years and for the majority entry is thanks to a lottery pick.

I'd think postponing it would be the thing to do. Maybe I'm wrong?

That's great news!:) That's how tough people react in tough situations! Go New Yorkers!:)

I guess I can see it that way, as long as NY'ers can see it that way.

Yeah, I'm sure the marathon won't be the same, maybe only a token event, but it gives a good example to others. Sort of says "we refuse to be beaten."

This is one of those things, however, that will have many types of reactions, because we are all different types of people.

No matter what happens with the Marathon, I offer those in the path of the storm all the best wishes.

I think I agree with Larry.

Getting on with life will help encourage folks that things will get back to normal.

Of course there are probably millions of dollars of contracts on the line too.;)

Agree with Larry.

After 9/11, it felt like a defeat to see everything closed down even though I understood why. Was very uplifting to see places open back up.

im of two minds. On one hand, I totally agree with the idea of not letting the disaster issues alter longstanding plans, and of course, that is much needed revenue for the city.

However, watching the news today about the looting on staten island and other hard hit areas of the city, makes me interested in how police diversion to the marathon route is going to be handled.

Its almost impossible to really postpone it properly, what with how many people have scheduled their lives around arriving at this certain time. It almost has to be cancelled, or go on as scheduled.

There are two questions that need to be asked:

1) Can you get all the participants to the location?

2) Can the police support the venue, considering the aftermath of the storm?


If you can get an affirmative on those two points, you can hold the marathon.

Any other musings regarding "the hurricane" or "should it be postponed" or "I'm going to worry" or any other superfluous BS is simply irrelevant.

And, it doesn't matter a whit on "NY'ers seeing it that way". Some will and some won't. Irrelevant.

On the one hand, I love NYC's stiff upper-lip attitude. On the other, how many resources (fire/rescue, cops, generators) are getting diverted to hold the marathon? Very mixed feelings here.

Don't underestimate New York and New Yorker's ability to get things done.

Ima get me a new pair a runnin shoes this weekend...;)

A friend of mine was driving to the airport this morning to fly up and run the marathon. Listening to the news, he turned around and headed home. The NY Road Runners has offered all entrants the ability to run next year, so he is going to take them up on that offer.

I agree with the sentiment of refusing to be beaten by Sandy. On the other hand, I am quite doubtful they are in a position to pull off all the logistics and support required to put on a marathon in such a dense urban area.

I subscribe to the NY Times (one must monitor the enemy, Larry :) ) and read the NYRR does not use much in the way of police support, it's mostly volunteers now. So in that respect they would not be taking away from recovery efforts. On the other hand, with public transit still mostly non-existent, how would the volunteers even get to the race?

BTW, the race starts on Staten Island.

Unfortunately, that's BS.

To make the run over 26 miles requires the closure of an estimated 500 streets. Many of these streets are manned by police officers to ensure that no traffic enters the "dead end".

If I walk the east side of Manhattan during the race, I could easily count over 100 officers in 20 city blocks. The contingent is probably less in Brooklyn and Queens, but have no doubt that the police requirement is far from insignificant.

oh yeah, NYC
 

The looters will continue to loot

They announced today that people who have lost their homes due to storm damage and are staying in local hotels/ motels are being uprooted and kicked out so that the marathon runners/tourists/gawkers will have hotel/motel room(s).

Where I come from, that ain't right.

from the link below.

"There has been tension with the visitors as well. Some hotels reportedly have asked families stranded by the storm to leave to make room for out-of-town runners. "

http://www.cnbc.com/id/49659631?__source=yahoo|headline|other|text|&par=yahoo

I'm surprised that you didn't see right through this.

This would be the perfect definition of heresay. In fact, I'll bet the author probably made it up for effect.

I lived on Staten Island. Graduated from HS there.:)

The guy at 5:28 of this clip (Morning Joe today --"Sandy's aftermath, staten Island"... clip) makes a point imo.
They're pumping out the Battery Tunnel for a for a marathon. We're pulling bodies out of the water. See the disconnect here??

Morning Joe

"Sand's aftermath

The Marathon? Bloomberg tells the prez to stay out of town & go see Christie then says ok to the runners and their big money corp sponsors?
S'pose his endorsment of Obama was a peace offering after his snub? :rolleyes:;) He scored no points on the Island with this call.

:rolleyes:

If you had checked the storyline, you might have found this:

SI Hotel Owner Refuses To Evict Evacuees To Honor Marathon Runners' Reservations - NY1.com

from the link below, an estimated 30,000 to 40,000 marathoners/tourists had hotel reservations PRIOR to hurricane Sandy. As a result, the hotels have a legal dilemma on their hands, honor the original reservation contract or dishonor it so they can rent rooms to storm victims.

Marathon Backlash Hits TwitterMeanwhile, the city's promises to use private transportation for the marathon haven't placated some irate citizens. Some people have taken to Twitter to vent their anger about the marathon and its impact on storm survivors.
Some survivors without power have been holed up in area hotels. Still, they can't get additional reservations because many hotels rooms previously were booked months in advance by runners, scheduled to participate in the race. (Read more: Available: NY Hotel Room, No Power for $400 a Night)
"#Disgraceful," tweeted one Twitter user.

Hotels are obliged to honor legitimate reservations — whether you're a stranded storm survivor or marathon runner. "If a guest has a legitimate reservation, you've got an obligation," said William Carroll, senior lecturer at Cornell University.
But there's nothing preventing hotels from proactively contacting those with reservations, who have yet to arrive, to confirm their travel plans, said Carroll, who is also a senior hotel and lodging analyst for market research firm PhoCusWright.
As the storm's aftermath continues, many travelers probably won't be able to get into New York City this weekend.


NYC Marathon Proceeds as Backlash Mounts - CNBC

It's difficult to imagine that a marathoner would deny a room to someone displaced from their home. That said, there are all kinds of people in the world.

It's not the marathoners -- it's the hotels telling people that rooms were pre-booked months ago, and they need to check out.

Those folks are hurting.........no doubt about it.

However, nobody is pumping out the Battery Tunnel for a marathon. The route goes nowhere near that tunnel. They are pumping out the tunnel to restore a critical transportation path from Brooklyn to lower Manhattan.

The folks on Staten Island need support from the Red Cross and the Feds with regard to food and water and the support from ConEd with regard to electric. The police cannot do much of anything for them.

The requirements for the Marathon are quite different than the needs of those folks. From the outside you can make a judgment that the resources must go to one or the other. But, you'd likely be in error.

You are assuming that all marathoners have a heart. They have been training for this race all year and for some, not even a hurricane is going to get in the way of their run. No doubt, there are many marathoners who will not run so as to conserve resources for storm victims; OTH, there will be those that take a "Me First, everyone else is second" attitude. The legal fact is that prior hotel reservations have priority. This presents a moral and legal problem for the hotels.

No easy answers........

Yes, there are good and bad in ALL groups of people.

I wonder if a reservation is a legally binding agreement?

Is there any recourse to the hotel if they don't honor a reservation? "Sorry, no room for you"??

I have personally experienced being kicked out of a hotel because of a prior reservation. A knock on the door along with the announcement that the room must be vacant by 11:00 AM.

That appears to be a question for the legal minds. Airlines overbook all the time, while hotels/motels appear to be a different situation. Most hotel owners/management do not want to have the public reputation of denying a traveler a legitimate paid reservation. Especially in today's age of trip advisor, yelp, etc etc where bad news travels INSTANTLY.

If the hotel rooms were booked long-term by the people who lost their homes, wonder if NYC landlord-tenant law would come into play.

I think hotel/motels are governed by a different set of rules than standard rental arrangements. All I know is this: If I lived in that area of the country, I would be seriously planning to leave the area, at least temporarily. Get in the car and head west until you are out of the gas shortages, hotel room shortages, jerk attitudes, etc.

Jerry: I don't understand, I made a reservation, do you have my reservation?

Agent: Yes, we do, unfortunately we ran out of cars.

Jerry: But the reservation keeps the car here. That's why you have the
reservation.

Agent: I know why we have reservations.

Jerry: I don't think you do. If you did, I'd have a car. See, you know how to
take the reservation, you just don't know how to *hold* the reservation and
that's really the most important part of the reservation, the holding. Anybody
can just take them.

I bet the marathoners pay a premium for their rooms.

The hotel would suffer no ill effects if it denied prior reservations due to a calamity such as this hurricane.

The question is whether the individuals who were denied would have recourse.

With regard to the folks who are already in the hotel, they are fully protected by the laws regarding tenancy. If they don't leave of their own will, the hotel must commence eviction proceedings. If the hotel tries that approach, and the judge finds that they are paying the room rate, the hotel will have almost no chance to prevail.

Those people have the upper hand............they just don't know it.

man.... beaten to the punch again...;)

http://www.vacationshop.com/specialnews/faqhotels.htm#FAQ-515
 

Must a hotel honor my prepaid or guaranteed reservation?

A prepaid or guaranteed reservation is one where you give the hotel a credit or debit card number and the hotel promises to have a room for you no matter when you show up, even if it's midnight or 3:00 a.m. If you have a guaranteed reservation and the hotel does not hold a room for you, the hotel has breached a contract and must do everything it can to find you a room -- even if that means sending you to another hotel. If you guaranteed your reservation with a credit or debit card, the hotel may be required under the terms of its agreement with the card issuer to pay for your first night's stay at an alternate hotel, to provide free transportation to the alternate hotel as well as a three minute phone call to let your family or office know where you'll be staying, and to forward all incoming calls to your new hotel. Be sure to request these services. If the alternate lodging is more expensive, the hotel should pay the difference.

Is a guaranteed reservation for a hotel room the same as a confirmed reservation?

If you have not paid for the reservation in advance or guaranteed it, but have received a confirmed reservation from the hotel, the hotel must keep a room for you unless you haven't met the conditions of the reservation. For example, it is common for a hotel to say "we will hold the room for you until 6:00 p.m." or "we will hold the room for you if we receive a written confirmation and deposit" by a certain date. If you do not fulfill these obligations, then the hotel does not have to hold the room for you. If you do meet your obligations and the hotel doesn't have a room for you, it must do its best to find you comparable lodging.

That clip was funny as hell...........so true. The DB's run out of cars all the time...........

Why?

Power is getting restored to most of Manhattan this week. If you were smart, you would have bought enough food to work through any shortages. Cooking gas is functional. Oil heat may be a problem in the next week/two, but it's not supposed to get that cold. In short, if you have a place that's not too damaged, you're making the situation WORSE by burning fuel to leave the area. Plus vacant houses and apartments can encourage more robbery and looting.

Jerk attitudes? Most New Yorkers are going out and helping one another. I never lost power, and my door's been open. I'm volunteering tomorrow to check on older New Yorkers who may have been stuck in high-rises for the week without power. In NJ, several friends are sharing generators, and helping neighbors clean up.

Most New Yorkers and NJ'ians are surprisingly helpful and pull together during bad situations, BTW. The "jerk attitude" tends to be mostly on the surface.

I believe they are not the same.

In one case, the hotel charges you immediately. You have effectively rented the room as of that moment.

In the second case, they only have given you a reservation but have not charged the room. Their legal obligations are definitely reduced.

I don't think tenancy laws covers hotels/motels. Paid confirmed reservations trumps all others. Speaking of tenancy, at the end of a rental term, the land lord has the paramount right to evict. As in, "Sorry, the house/apartment is rented to another, you will have to leave now". Renters don't have the power to stay over although some will drag the eviction process out for several months (free rent).

As opposed to a landlord/renter arrangement, a hotel manager merely has to call the police to have the room occupant ejected.

to each their own.

Also, I have several clients who were flooded and had computer/network/etc equipment damaged. Fortunately, no data loss, local as well as cloud backup. I feel like I'd be doing them a disservice if I up and left, and didn't help them restart their businesses. One of them is a construction company which may be very helpful to people recovering from the storm in the upcoming months.

The ride out to Queens yesterday morning. I feel like I was the only person "commuting" *out* of the city, and yes, I was in a siding when I took the picture:

In the state of NY, that is a factually incorrect statement. It's a civil matter and the police cannot intercede in any manner whatsoever.

I would doubt that it's a criminal manner in any other state as well.

Landlord-tenant law only kicks in if the "lease" is longer than a certain # of days. I'd suspect that for short-term hotel renters who refuse to leave, the hotel could call the cops and file a trespassing complaint.

..........and you would be mistaken.

Interesting -- so they could conceivably stay, and wait a few weeks for their case to come up in front of a judge, hopefully making better housing arrangements by that time?

...........yep.............

It's a civil matter and they must be properly served with a notice of petition and the actual petition.

I thought the statement rather disingenuous myself. These events utilize probably 10 volunteers or more for each officer. The individual was trying to make it look like they don't use all that many officers because of the ratio, but 10-to-1 is completely normal. I'm wondering if they can find enough officers to work yet more overtime, plus with public transit not up to speed yet, can the volunteers get to their work sites?

Transportation via subway is non-existent. They would need to arrange transportation via private carrier or private vehicles.

The cops love overtime............they'll always take the duty.

Yep. Burn more gas when the region is experiencing a shortage. Let 'em ride bikes.