Another Ruby Ridge/Waco event brewing
 

This will not end well. the paramilitary Feds are there and they want blood...

Defiant Nevada rancher faces armed federal agents in escalating confiscation standoff - BizPac Review

Nevada Governor Calls Federal Cattle Roundup ‘Intimidation’ « CBS Las Vegas

'Wake up America,' says family involved in BLM cattle dispute | KSL.com

The guy has been a long time violator.

His cows are on land that his family has ranched for over a indeed years

In violation not paying his fees. Might as well walk into a gov office and grab some equipment.

His case would probably be a lot stronger if he'd paid his fees.

It's true that the federal government owns way too much of Nevada and that's something that should be addressed, but in this case it looks like the rancher is about to be out of the ranching business.

The guy is just trying to feed the crowd at McD's; he's nothing more than a 'paper criminal' if that. He should have paid the lease fees, or not used the grazing leases, however the police response is over-the-top. The heavy handed response is what's expected with a militarized police force. They have the gear, they will use it. Too bad they can't pursue real criminals with that enthusiasm.

Uncle Sam?

I suspect that we are only hearing half the story.
And that half doesn't make Mr Rancher look real good....

After they round up all his cows, he won't be a rancher, and he won't need to graze animals.

If he felt he had a legitimate claim, he should have pursued it years ago.
Now he is just a grand scale scofflaw.

Wouldn't it be better use of tax dollars to have these officers guarding the border instead?? Lots of resources being wasted here...

"Over the top" response by whom? The guy's been in violation for twenty years.
He lost his "rights" when the BLM took over that land, which was probably when he was a child, if born at all.
I don't like them either. I have an allotment that I lease to another family. This fellow's a scofflaw trying to make his criminality into a state's rights issue. Nonsense.

What were the lease costs over time? If they were raised too quickly to unconscionable levels, I'd say that he might have a legitimate gripe.

If someone is renting a house, it's generally illegal (not to mention morally sketchy) to say "I'm raising your rent from $1000 to $3000 next month, pay up or move out."

First they came for the...

MV

Couple questions in my mind. 1. Why didn't they try to evict the herd in 1994 when the grazing permit was revoked? 2. What are they going to do with the cattle they round up?

I don't know why BLM doesn't just allow its grazing users to simply buy their allotments and put the land in private hands. There's no good reason I can think of for the .gov to own so much land.

Saw a very similar issue where gov't has been revoking water and land use rights that have been in place for over a century. One family won their case only to be told by the gov;t, we;ll see you in the 9th court, where we always win.

BTW, it was on Fox and must have been BS..."Enemies of the State"

Bring on the attacks.....

Cows?

And I said nothing, for I was not a rancher.

MV

I can only answer #2...sell at auction to satisfy debt.

I do find it kind of humorous that some people hold the belief that there is some inherent right to continue doing something, just because they have been doing it all their lives....

Not similar at all. Land and water rights are not grazing leases, that's all he appears to have had. Grazing leases are revocable anytime the fed deems it necessary. Best way to keep them "grandfathered" is to pay the rent, and if the feds tell you you can only have 150 cows on your allotment, you better not have 151.
My great grandparents grazed cattle on my allotment before AZ became a state. When it did, 80% of the state became federal land, including that graze. They started paying fees. The only reason I still do it is there are some historic pens and structures on the property that they built.
Grazing fees are cheap. Welfare ranchers whine about them all the time, threatening dire consequences for the price of beef when their fees went to $16.20 per cow and calf unit. That's a buck thirty five per animal unit month or AUM.
I'm not a foaming at the mouth type who thinks grazing is categorically bad for range land. We practice Allan Savory's methods with the sheep, and the renters who have cattle on my allotment do the same, have for years.
At the same time, I have little sympathy for so called independent ranchers who are in reality conducting private business on public land largely at public expense with precious little oversight.

Here's an interesting take on this. Granted, it's going to take more research to know for sure, but it seems quite plausible.

BLM fracking racket exposed! Armed siege and cattle theft from Bundy ranch really about fracking leases

Follow the money is always a good idea.

Posse comatatis , call him whatever you want but using armed forces against American citizens for non violent violations is not only wrong it's against the law. Since this guy is a Mormon rancher he's a dead man, if he were an atheist hippie the feds would not give a poop. This is the same administration that raised hell about targeting US citizens in Yemen that we're conspiring to launch terrorist attacks against the US of A.

Absolute BS in my opinion.

Not a big fan of BLM by any means, but is it not within their purview to change the land use from grazing to oil exploration?

You're talking about quite a bit of land. Until oil is definitively found, exploration operations can coexist with grazing. What's technically legal doesn't make it morally right. If it's about oil, I hope it does turn into a media circus.

Since he has neglected to pay his grazing fees, he has no legal recourse.

Now that he has accepted help from armed militias, they stand a much better chance of ending up dead.
Dead and stupid... they kind of go together.....

At this point, I have seen no compelling evidence that BLM has done anything worse than being a little heavy handed with a db who has flaunted his unwillingness to play by the rules.

Morally right??? WTF do morals have to do with grazing?

BLM oversees the land.
Guy has not paid his grazing fees, yet continues to graze there.
Seems pretty simple to me, regardless of whatever nefarious purpose the .gov has in mind for that area.

Personally, I think the guy is a douche for grazing on public land without a permit and without paying the grazing fees.
He's lucky he hasn't been tossed in the hoosegow already.

Do you know the history of the fees? Were they suddenly raised to exorbitant levels, perhaps? Do the fees vary by area, or are they all as cheap as El Chivito says.

For all we know, he has a right to be livid here.

His right to be livid expired 20 years ago....

I completely disagree with him that he has 'preemptive rights' to graze there.

And I disagree that his rights expired 20 years ago. Hope this turns into a media circus. I have much more respect for a rancher with a family business than polluting oil-industry scum.

No sympathy from me for a guy who has openly admitted to grazing there for 20 years without paying the grazing fees.

The oil industry issue is completely separate, and as of yet unproven, IMHO.

I found this equally interesting...Ignore the source, but read the story.

» BLM Action in Nevada is Unconstitutional, Here’s Why Alex Jones' Infowars: There's a war on for your mind!

... but you have no problems using their products?

This after 20 years? I'm not sure I know how it would be "heavy handed". Had this been 2 weeks after his first missed payment, I'd agree it was.

What has your history got to do with anything? You have kept the rent based off the lease agreement steady. Next time the lease comes, you want to raise the rent. What of it? If I don't feel like paying your rent whether it is reasonable or not, what right have I to keep using the facilities?

I can certainly understand and sympathize with the argument, but I see it as more of an excuse rather than a reason.

If he was so incensed with the federal government stewarding the land and charging grazing fees, why did the family pay them for so long?
Nevada became a state in 1864.... that's 150 years ago. It seems like they might have found the time to lodge a complaint before now....

My understanding is that the family was fine and dandy with the arrangement until BLM modified the grazing permit to accommodate the desert tortoises which live in that area. That was when Bundy quit paying. That was when he should have pursued his argument regarding the 'Enclave Clause'.... Not after 20 years of continuing to operate a commercial herd on public lands without making a single payment. That is theft of public money in my book.
Had he wished to give his constitutional argument some validity, he would have paid the grazing fees to the State of Nevada....

Unless something else comes out, I can't see him as anything but an opportunistic scofflaw who has been abusing the public trust for decades.

Is "respect" now a new word for "double standards"?

While that is a fascinating viewpoint, whether an action is constitutional or not is not for him to decide. IIRC, there is a group that decides that. You get a ticket you don't believe you deserve, take it to court. That is the venue for such decisions. Your personal interpretation of the law notwithstanding, it isn't your call.

The Bureau of Land Management website says Bundy has defied trespass laws for more than two decades, ignored rules and fees that other cattle ranchers have observed and refused “repeated attempts to resolve the matter administratively and judicially,”

Had he wished to give his argument any validity, there was an invite to take it to court.

The imagery of the self-reliant cattle rancher running up against the image of a cheapskate scofflaw.

yadda yadda, another states rights over fed.

As if some kid was taken away from their parents by CPS, --oh wait, which state is this... a red one or a blue? and what yr is this (whos occuping the WH).
Its as clear as red and blue--move along -nothing here any different.

Could he be both?

Why not, we all project our own prejudice to most situations.

They are all as cheap as El Chivito says.

A "family business" conducted on public land largely at public expense, without even the payback of nominal rent to the public owners of the land.

You're a regular free-marketeer ain'tcha?:rolleyes:

Found this:

Better solar than oil, I guess.

Makes sense with the current crowd

Well I'm no fan of the armed military government police so if it turns hot oh well. The rancher is wrong, but I still dislike the Iraq style ops the BLM are running.