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#1
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Casting defect in tire?
So I'm traveling this week. Rented a car, and this morning, I found one of the tires flat. The rental firm said to take it to a shop, and they'd pay if it was a defective tire or valve, but not if it was damage to the tire from a nail or accident.
The guy at the shop dunked the tire and saw bubbles coming from the inner sidewall where there was a tiny pinhole. He said that the tire probably delaminated or has a defect from the factory, and since the leak was in the sidewall, it couldn't be plugged -- rental agency paid for a new tire with a credit card over the phone, no problem. Has this happened to anyone? How common is this? I've never encountered something like this in any of my own cars. I wonder if dumping a bunch of "Slime" into the tire would have fixed it. |
#2
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Tires are actually pretty complicated to make and might be the most tortured part on the Car.
Like anything manufactured you can end up with a Deffect and somtimes the Defect is not going to show up until it is used. In the Old days they used and inside patch on the Side Walls but the Federal Government changed the Law on that. In My case I have patched tiny sidewall holes with a tiny blob of Silicone Sealant that I let cure before mounting the Tire (I have a Harbor Freight manual Tire Mounter dis-mounter since the 1980s). I have also used and inside patch on the sidewall on one occasion. However, the Patch is like $3-$5 each and you need to decide if that Money is not better spent on a new Tire. I also use Tire Plugs when I have a leak in the Tread Area. In the Old Days Gas Stations and Tire Places would Plug your Tire while it is still on the Car (when they could find the leak with it on the Car); but that is also lillegal for them to do. I have had Plugs leak later but they have never caused anything catastrophic. The Plugs are useful if you got a Flat on the Road and you can locate the Leak and pull it out and plug it with the Tire still on the Car or off if needed. I have 12 Volt Electric Inflation Pumps In all of My Cars and before they were cheap to buy I had Manual Pumps in each of My Cars or those Tire Inflation Canister with pressurized gass in them.
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84 300D, 82 Volvo 244Gl Diesel |
#3
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They still plug (tubeless) tires on the car. Pull out the nail with pliers, ream out the hole, use another tool to stick a sort of sticky rope into the hole and cut the rope flush with the tread with a razorblade.
Or at least that's what they did when I picked up a nail last month. I would have rather they used a mushroom-type plug that also had a patch on the inside, but I didn't have time to argue. As far as patching the sidewalls, there may be individual state laws and liability concerns, but Federal laws typically govern new car manufacture, not repair post-manufacture. There might be something that regulated commercial trucks. |
#4
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I used to carry them but after several Years in the Trunk they may or may not work and there is a warning on them about the heat in the Trunk. Even when I had the Inflation Canisters I kept a Manual Air Pump or an Electric one in the Trunk. Story time: When I was a Kid a lot of Cars still had Tires with Tubes in them. I can remember at least 4 Times when My Dad got a Flat and patched the Tube on the side of the Road and I was the one that had fill the Tire with Air from a Manual Hand pump. It takes a lot of pumping to fill up the big 15 or 16 inch Tires on the Cars used in the 1950s and early 60s When He had a Car with Tubless Tires My Dad plugged the Tires and I got to pump again but by that time I was older and bigger.
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84 300D, 82 Volvo 244Gl Diesel |
#5
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The other freaky thing is that I started the car and drove it for a few hundred feet, and never got a tire-pressure light. I thought tire-pressure monitoring was mandatory on all new cars. This is a 2014 Versa.
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#6
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YES!! I had 2 out of 4 "80k mile" Michelin Defenders peel layers on the inside resulting in a flat more than I care to remember. Tire Rack and a Michelin rep wanted to keep one. No word on what happened or why. There was still enough tread left they warrantied I think like 60 percent off the damaged 2 but had to pay full price the non damaged 2. Probably could have continued to use them, but I've always bought 4 tires at a time. If I can digup the pics I'll post them.
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Lance Allison Lance@LanceAllison.com Current: 11 MB S550 4Matic, 55k miles, Designo Black/Black 14 Ford F150 XLT Lariat Crew, 73k miles, 5.0 Coyote V8 4x4. Black/tan. 09 GMC Envoy Denali, 5.3 V8, 4x4 SWB. 38k miles, Jewel Red/Med Gray. Gone: 87 MB 300SDL, 320k miles, Astral Silver/Blue. 98 VW Jetta TDI, 488k miles, Classic Green/Gray. 85 Olds 98 Brougham FWD, 4.3 DIESEL V6, 80k miles, 3x Gray. MBCA Member, Chicago Region |
#7
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MV |
#8
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Concerning tire plugging.....
This was popular on tubeless tires back in the 60's and 70's. Tires then were bias ply with nylon cord. The plugs were usually made of rubber that had been dipped in a sealing goo that both lubed up the plug and glued it into the tire. Then radials became popular and rubber plugs would not flex enough to keep from leaking. So cord plugs were introduced and they worked very well. Then bias tires all went away and steel belted radials took over from nylon belted radials. After that no plug was a sure thing since the steel belts would eat away at the sides of the plug and maybe, or maybe not, cause them to fail. Tire shops got tired of repairing the same hole over and over so the inside patch became the gold standard of tire patching. More expensive up front but you never came back to find your tire flat from a slow leak after a tire 'repair'. I carry a plugging kit in my production truck since time is money. A plug will get you back to the real world where a tire can be repaired or replaced, but with todays tires I don't think there is any plug, at least none that I know of, that can be trusted over the long haul. |
#9
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And then people started riding motorcycles with spoke wheels and tubes again... MV |
#10
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I can say that my solution to a flat tire is to buy a new tire. But that's just me. So please try to forgive me for wanting to bring some clarity to the subject. I will not make this mistake again. |
#11
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I also tend to replace tires, but there are times when a "patch" will have to do until I can get to where I need to be to have the tire(s) replaced. And yeah, now I have to relearn how to spoon a tire off of the rim, and replace a tube. Watching someone else do it was entertainment for the whole camp on a recent dual sport trip. Personally, I can think of better ways to entertain myself. MV |
#12
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On a motorcycle, for sure, since a flat is much more likely to be fatal than in a car. On a car, I'll spend the $10-15 to get it plugged, if it can be.
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#13
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I've plugged lots of tires over the years, mostly radials, many while still on the car and I can't remember any of them leaking. I put tens of thousands of miles on many of those plugs.
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1977 300d 70k--sold 08 1985 300TD 185k+ 1984 307d 126k--sold 8/03 1985 409d 65k--sold 06 1984 300SD 315k--daughter's car 1979 300SD 122k--sold 2/11 1999 Fuso FG Expedition Camper 1993 GMC Sierra 6.5 TD 4x4 1982 Bluebird Wanderlodge CAT 3208--Sold 2/13 |
#14
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It depends on the situation. I've worked in tire shops before and I've installed many patches, plugs, and patch-plugs (the mushroom sort). Most of them didn't come back for rework. I've even seen tires on low speed construction equipment get sewn up and last decently long when new tires weren't available. However, my own driving is such that I wear tires out fast, and I tend to view them as a consumable item. A flat on anything that isn't my bicycle just gets replaced.
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Whoever said there's nothing more expensive than a cheap Mercedes never had a cheap Jaguar. 83 300D Turbo with manual conversion, early W126 vented front rotors and H4 headlights 400,xxx miles 08 Suzuki GSX-R600 M4 Slip-on 22,xxx miles 88 Jaguar XJS V12 94,xxx miles. Work in progress. |
#15
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Had a Michelin go flat on a 240D a few weeks before I sold the car. Would go flat after 3-4 days. So I found the hole & plugged it. After that it would go flat overnight! A can of Fix-a-Flat solved the problem.
Happy Motoring, Mark
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DrDKW |
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