Furnace woes...

[jplinville]

Just had the furnace guy out to check the system. It quit working at the end of last season, and since we don't have central air, I decided it could wait until now.

According the tag on the system, it was installed in 1956...August 17th of 1956, to be exact. He opened it up, looked around, re-lit the pilot and she was alive. However, there was serious issues. There were flames where flames weren't supposed to be. Replacement parts are impossible to obtain, so we opted for a new furnace. He'll be over on Thursday to rip out this behemoth of a furnace, replace the return duct lines, etc. He said it will take until Saturday morning to have everything up and running.

Armstrong 95% efficiency furnace, 135,000 BTU, coupled with an Armstrong 5 ton 14 SEER A/C. Gone will be the days of window units, at least for the first floor.

Luckily the new unit will have half the footprint of the old unit, and I'll no longer duct tape filters together to reach the proper size. I've been unable to locate the proper size filter locally, and the price for it online was over $8 per filter...for a blue fiberglass filter. I can't remember the bastard size at the moment, but it was very odd.

Now, knowing that I know nothing about this crap...plus the fact that I already had 4 other quotes for the replacement before settling for this company, and knowing that many of you DO know about it. Is $5,600 too high a figure for parts, labor, installation, and a BJ?

Oh, wait...the BJ was the next level. I couldn't afford that one.

[jplinville]

Sorry...16 SEER A/C

[barry12345]

It never rains but pours. I just went over our furnace yesterday and it will need new firebricks. Impossible almost cost wise to use oil heating here now and no gas available. So it is a wood add on.

But the principal heating and cooling although the latter not used much this far north is going to be a new heat pump. I know the model I want but having a time finding it for a decent price.

I figure we will still use the add on wood furnace for the few really cold days of the year. Or if the power fails.

Your quote for both heating and cooling sounds decent if not cheap for here in Canada. But I do not live in your area.

Is the 135k btu requirement indicated for your house? Or do the newer gas furnaces tailor their burn rate rather than cycle to demand? I examined one quite awhile back and it was a pretty complex unit.

You of course will eventually make up some of the outgoing cost in more efficiency. Maybe even a lot of it over five years hopefully..

[jplinville]

Current unit is 175k BTU, but not efficient at all. Like I said...1956 technology. the house is a 1774 sq foot home, with two levels and 9 foot ceilings, so the higher BTU, even for a 95% efficient unit, is needed. It seems to be a nice unit, with variable speed blower, stainless steel heat exchange (lifetime warranty on that), 4 zone for better comfort, and comes with a nifty, if not more than a bit overboard, smart thermostat that I don't really need.

I'm almost certain to recover a decent amount of the cost through energy bill savings.

Next up on the list will be windows in another year or two. Since owning the house, I've had nearly all plumbing replaced, to include the main drain line, front and back doors replaced, range, range hood, roof, carpet in two rooms, water heater, electric service upgraded, and now the furnace and A/C. This cheap house has been costing me and arm and a leg, but it's been a worth investment overall.

[P.C.]

Where are you at with wall and attic insulation?

[barry12345]

When you eventually get to windows consider triple glazed. In a city the noise reduction is worth it alone. I put some in the current house and never regretted it. Back then it was only available in fixed windows. We live on a rural two lane highway and you cannot even hear the cars go by. Not that traffic is heavy along here.

Windows have high margins so usually you can work a deal. Locally the thermo units have gone to a thirty year warranty.

Triple glazed is steadily gaining so perhaps by the time you are ready it will be more conventional. Fifteen inches of insulation in the attic is a good ideal when using heating and air conditioning.

That means about eighteen inches if blown in as it settles with time. . An easy job usually your kids can do if you are unable. Not really too expensive with the loaner machines and a big bang for the buck. A poorly insulated attic is common in older houses and the cheapest improvement possible probably in a lot of cases. If you have any soffit roof venting do not obstruct it though. Many older houses had little if any to start with.

[jplinville]

Originally Posted by P.C.

Where are you at with wall and attic insulation?

Walls are as insulated as 115 year old walls can be. Horse hair plaster and lath inside and clapboard with asphalt shingles as the siding. My main heat loss are the old single pain original windows. The attic will have blown insulation in a few weeks.

I'll have more insulation on the exterior walls next summer when we have siding done. We're going to do one wall per year, due to cost. The front will be done first due to it getting most of the weather through the year.

[barry12345]

Blown in insulation even in walls is not a bad do it yourself type job. There are articles on U tube on how to do it right. The battle on older houses is they had no vapor barriers so that must always be considered.

Any moisture must be discouraged from collecting in the walls for example. So the only foam to install under new siding has to be the cheap breathable type foam. With a layer of tyback over it.

I do have a good example. When we first arrived here we brought a house about the same size as yours. In the coldest months the first year we burnt 500 gallons of fuel oil a month. Fuel was pretty cheap back then so it was not a great issue.

We did not change any of the single glazed windows. Just blow insulated the old walls that were lath and plaster as well. Consumption the next winter dropped to 250 gallons a month in the two bad months. I never got around to beefing up the attic insulation but certainly it would have helped as it was only four inch bats.

What is both funny and not funny is it would have taken 2,000 a month to heat that barn today with no insulation in the worse months. It was a two story design.

[dynalow]

Jon, I think that's a fair price for installation & the unit. I replaced my outdoor TRANE package gas/ac unit three years ago for 6,000 I think.. Pretty good unit that the guy ( a biker club friend ) gave me a break on. Told me he normally got over 7,000 for the same unit.
I suspect you'll fall in love with the AC.

[jplinville]

We had central air conditioning last when we lived in Utah, which we moved from 5 years ago this month. We didn't use it much, as it wasn't that effective in the arid areas.

I"m really excited about the lower monthly heating and electric bills to come. That will be a very welcome site each month. Summers here in western PA can be quite sticky.

[Mark DiSilvestro]

$5600? Lucky you!
I just got a quote for a new oil-furnace & 4-ton heat-pump for my 2800 sq.foot home in Virginia Beach. The 28 year-old heat-pump died but the furnace still works OK. $15,400!!!!
Until I can get anything close to a reasonable estimate, I'll be running window units for awhile!

Happy Motoring, Mark

[t walgamuth]

Yeah, the price sounds very reasonable.

[TOPGUN]

Is there asbestos?

[Mark DiSilvestro]

Originally Posted by TOPGUN

Is there asbestos?

No - if you're asking about the $15,400 estimate to replace my 28 year-old system. The guy did tack on an additional $900 estimate to install a furnace flue liner, if needed

Happy Motoring, Mark

[jplinville]

One thing I did notice is that much of the cost is tied up in installation. In my case, the furnace is pretty much out in the open in the basement, with nothing to really hamper access to 75% of it, so it looks to be a straight forward install. Some of the ducting needs replaced, and a few holes for hoses, pipes, and the furnace chimney to be drilled in the wall. The current system uses the existing chimney to exhaust the gases, but the new system, with it being so much more efficient, will be able to exhaust through a pipe through the wall.

He has much of the ducting leftover from a job his partner ordered for...he ordered far too much, so he's cutting me a heck of a deal on it, which lowers the cost.