Maybe? The ZF 8spd is an incredibly efficient and versatile auto box (hence why its almost ubiquitous these days). It is possible the xdrive awd system saps more power between shifts or something. Just spitballing, but the point is its am extremely good auto box. Manuals are for us enthusiasts and that is about it.

It's an 8 speed auto so it has some advantage there. Keeps a peaky engine in a happy place. Apples to pears 5 speed(or whatever) trans with a torque converter will lose to a direct gearbox. It's just less efficient. It's been minimized at this point though.

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The more you narrow the selection of what you are comparing to a traditional manual, the more worthless the comparison gets. Something to consider.

I can find historical examples all day of how manuals are more efficient than automatics when i deliberately choose old inefficient variants of automatics to compare, and do nothing else.

That is a meaningless comparison projected on modern vehicles and the various types of newer automatics out there.

Not sure what the big deal is in admitting manuals are for enthusiasts now. There is no argument. They were passed years ago in efficiency, the human element slows things down. Look at racing.

Yes, modern autos as compared to the same car model with a manual will net better fuel mileage thanks to computer technology. So what? I don’t drive a stick nowadays for better fuel mileage. I drive a manual because I ENJOY driving a manual.

I’ll make everyone a deal; I’ll let you drive your auto if you’ll let me have my clutch pedal.

The manufacturers are the ones who are telling you that you cannot buy a new stick.

Yes you can make that point. But two 6 speed trans in the same ratio 1 with no torque converter is more efficient. But since that horse has been beaten to death, and the original point of this post, or at least my responses in this post and what you just reiterated, a Corvette IS an enthusiast car and absolutely should have 3 pedals and a stick shift option. And the dct is glass apparently.

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[QUOTE=rwd4evr;4016095]Well considering I don't own a car newer than 1999 I'm not the one to blame. [QUOTE]


LMAO like every manual aficionado on the internet. Cry that the manufactures don't make cars they want...well why would they you don't buy new cars...funny how that works.

Porsche still makes a great stick because....the buyers of new Porsche's buy them...funny how that works.

Considering that both Ferrari and Lamborghini dispensed with the engine out service 20 years ago, I bet its not that bad.

[QUOTE=Hatterasguy;4035807][QUOTE=rwd4evr;4016095]Well considering I don't own a car newer than 1999 I'm not the one to blame. Yes, well I build my own cars or keep them from when they weren't disposable. Why would I spend 60,000 for a car full of technology I want to turn off, that WILL be costing you thousands to figure out what's wrong with it in 10 years? I can put a modern LS or LT with all the efi goodness in any old car and it will be lighter and faster than a new car plus have style and no plastic. And if I spent $60,000 it would be sema show quality(and running/driving). I've got very little in my 450slc and mechanically it's good as new and better. I'd say I could replicate it with $5000 in parts. It's a couple weeks of body and interior work from being a very nice driver but I don't really care about that. I just need it to listen to me without interupting while I drive. My $400 85 300sd is comfy, quiet and reliable(the auto sucks though) and will run on anything so once the **** really hits the fan I'll be good.

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[QUOTE=rwd4evr;4037657][QUOTE=Hatterasguy;4035807]Your 450slc and 85 SD are loaded with plastic.

If someone is not a customer of a product a manufacturer makes, that person has no say in what the manufacturer makes.

[QUOTE=JB3;4037721][QUOTE=rwd4evr;4037657]Sd is not a classic car in my opinion because of that. Plastic bumpers. It's honestly a car I drive because it's still way cooler than anything stone reliable you can buy for 400$, hell $ 4000. It's a beating heart looking for a sexy body to occupy. A correct euro version c107 is not loaded with plastic. It's there but any car after the 50s is. A c107 still has card board crap too. But my real love are fintails and there is not a whole lot of plastic in them at all. And most are manual trans. I just picked up a w116 350se that may be the right home for the om617 turbo. Small bumpers, manual windows and climate control. Not quite fintail pretty but at least it's not plastic bumpered.

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The fintail has a plywood glove box door.

Maybe yours does. Mine have a solid hunk of wood or Bakelite in my 190c.

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Well it has been 40 years since I had one. I'm not sure if it was plywood or solid wood.