Pumpe Duse for me ?

[Angel]

Hey guys,
I am a car guy, I've loved MB diesels since I got old enough to appreciate good engineering. (No really...I have

I do a lot of my own maintenance, and have tools, but right now I have 4 children and right now, wrenching time is reduced (but not gone.). Wife and I have 2 minivans (both paid off). so we are set with cars, but both those vans are "older" and not sure how much life they have left in them. I sometimes drive big miles for work.

a 2005 VW Jetta TDI arrived in my driveway recently. It runs slightly rough when warm, it 'bups' a litttle bit and at least one of the cam profiles has noticeable scratches (a common problem on these cars). Black/Black in color, higher-end trim (alloys, sunroof, heated seats...)
car has 248k and the AC system is suspect, but it is otherwise an 8 or 9 out of 10 for appearance (effectively no rust, interior is well taken care of, no rips or tears, carpet is great, radio lights up, some dealer receipts for work.)
Cruise is unknown. It will need at least 2 tires sooner than later, and the PO (a good mechanic, DDs a MK4 TDI right now...) says that the brakes need attention - I need to investigate this (they worked fine when driving it on and off the trailer to bring it home)

I used to have a MK4 (ALH) VW Jetta TDI, I sold it before deploying a few years ago...I miss that thing (love driving, love the TDI torque...) Seeing this MK5 Jetta in my driveway makes me happy.

I'm at a crossroads - I ask this here because I think this board is a pretty even mix of "drive what you want" car guys and "Thats a money pit, dont do it" car guys I could ask at TDIclub, but I consider them biased

I'm going to put in a new cam either way (they come in kits with gaskets, bolts and followers), but that is my conundrum, do I:

1) Put a basic factory/aftermarket cam in ($500 for the kit, good for another 100-200k?) and sell it. hoping to make profit.

or

2) Put a Colt (Stage 2?)/Frank06/aftermarket hardened cam ($1100 - supposedly good for life) and just drive the car myself. I'm not into mods and tuning (love the idea, hate spending the $), but stage 2 doesn't require a re-flash and might help fuel economy)

What say you ? oh denizens of Mercedesshop

-John

[vwnate1]

RUN AWAY ! .

You don't have the time nor inclination to fix what you already have so avoid this car before it empties your wallet and kills your dreams .

You didn't mention it running poorly / missing / loping so why replace the cam ? .

When I touched old VW Rabbit Diesels, every single one vibrated like a tuning fork and had tight valves, once properly adjusted the were pretty smooth .

I agree drive what _YOU_ like but that's not the question here : you say you want to fix and flip it, one more fool's errand .

[Tony H]

Sounds like a lot of miles to put serious money into unless you plan on keeping it. One mod usually opens the door to other mods. You will need new valve springs with a performance cam. Then when the head comes off it will need to be rebuilt and so on.

[Angel]

I didnt make this clear: I have wanted another TDI since I sold one a few years ago (I was going on deployment and the wife didnt know how to drive a stick...). I want to get back into a Diesel, and will be doing some big miles later this year (and would rather not put them on my minivan...)

Ive been a watercooled VW guy since I started driving. Triple-square bits ? I got 'em

I'm going to replace the cam either way - between the scratches that are visible, the history of this motor, and the slightly-rough running sounds/nature it was showing when we loaded it up - The engine starts and runs, but the noises it makes (and the hard time getting it up on the dolly - low power(?) - Im 95% sure it needs a new cam.

That being said - Its in my driveway now I can either fix this one well enough to sell ($500 cam kit - might fail again in 100-200k) or fix it well enough to keep for myself ($1200 cam kit - should last forever).

What forum entries/vendor pages I can find, do not list 'new springs' as required for the stage 2 cam. If the cam didnt come with them, Id expect a slew of threads and complaints about "why didnt you tell me I needed..." Lots of people (albeit, invisible internet forum-people) seem to be running the stage 2 cam and nothing else (stock injectors, stock tune). I dont want it for the performance, but the 'longer-lasting' and 'better mpg' are worth the price difference if Im the one driving it.

I was kinda hoping for some insight into other things -
how does the MK5 VW (2005 to 2010 or so...) platform hold up ?
How is NVH ? (better than my 2001 TDI?)
Does anyone else have this model TDI and comments on longevity ?

Every car will last if you put enough time and money into it, Im just debating between spending more and keeping this one, or spending less and selling it (and holding out for the ultra-cheap TDI of my dreams later

-John

[barry12345]

Okay I am driving a 2006 jetta tdi. My daily beater. The cam and followers are pretty much a given on these at some point. Mine has 130 thousand miles at this point as well.

Brake parts are fairly cheap except the rear calipers. With their emergency brakes setup but still cable activated. If you get one that they did not skimp on in my opinion. Getting the best rustproofing at the factory. Of any brand marketed. They just basically do not rust easily.

The cam fails because of the obvious lobe size reduction to service the injectors is pretty obvious. Yet perhaps one of the best mechanics in my country. I do not say this lightly. Claims to have customers with very high miles if they listen to him with no cam failures. The factory oil change interval is just too long he states.

Also drives better as they changed the rear suspension in that year I believe. The ahl cars did not really feel all that great when cornering to me at speed. Logically they felt the same and changed the rear suspension. I had a brand new ahl jetta as it was not a case of a car with existing wear issues.I believe ground clearance of the oil pan must be better too. As I have had no contact issues in the last three years. Never measured it though.

Their protection for the passengers and driver is exceptional. That is one reason I still buy their products. . Parts for a clutch job are expensive with their two part flywheel but you can go to a single part flywheel. Odd stupid design features like the placement of their headlight switch are just what they are.

I got this one used perhaps three years ago. Or a little more. The millage and condition and price where all good. Timing belt change is required far more frequently on this two year only engine. I think it is every 80 thousand miles because of the extra loading the cam has driving the injectors.

I would not buy a high millage older but still more modern diesel in almost any brand. Needless to say. In general stay away from their automatic transmissions. They have had an abnormal failure rate at least in my opinion.

What you do should be decided by total accumulated miles and overall condition in my opinion. I would not buy the harder aftermarket cam myself. I doubt on average these cars will last long enough to justify it. If you maintain the oil changes a little more often that factory recommends and use the right oil. Maybe with some lucjk you can find out the last time the timming belt was changed and if the waterpump etc was done then as well. I notice on the first belt change they are not sometimes.

My view on the latest cars is almost when the warranty is gone perhaps the bulk of them should be gone as well. Even some pretty simple appearing issues on them are not that simple. The 2006 jetta has not been that bad. Three calipers so far, A battery and tires. Actually not that bad for three to four years now. Second timing belt change is due very soon though. Altough the perhaps low milage for a fourteen year old car is a real factor.

[vwnate1]

Good points ~ very few Americans follow any sort of routine maintanece schedules, instead they wait until something goes wrong and then moan and blame the vehicle or designer .

Yes, some brands will go far without regular oil & filter plus tranny and final drive lubricant changes but it's a simple thing to do and not overly expen$ive .

The 'C' API/SAE oil rating is for reduced cam wear, use this grade of multi vis oil and hot change it with the filter every 3,000 miles or so and Lo ! you get those 350,000 mile engines that don't have any troubles or burn oil and run strongly .

Same thing with automatic trannies ~ right here on this list was a fierce discussion from lazy folks insisting that changing the ATF & filter on an old automatic is guaranteed to cause failure when it isn't .

If you want any machine to last, TAKE CARE OF IT .

Subarus also need their timing belts changed between 60,000 and 80,000 miles or you'll grenade the engine when it snaps and the valves collide with the pistons and destroy the cylinder head(s) beyond repair .

The choice is yours, make the wise choice .

heavy duty valve springs are only necessary if you're over speeding the engine ~ otherwise all they do is promote rapid cam lobe wear .

Many do not bother to properly break in a new cam, it's critical to "work harden" the lobes and followers, most replacement cams come with a specific instruction sheet that indiaces what cam lube to use in assembly and what RPM's to run the new cam at no load before you ever take a test drive .

Way back in the mid 1970's GM tried to skip proper breaking on their V8 engines and millions had the cams go flat in 10,000 miles ~ it was a regular service item to replace the worn put cam shaft in two year old trucks and cars .

[barry12345]

You have to adjust somewhat to the economy of your time. The old days are gone both in many practical ways and costs. Vehicles are not designed to last or repair as they once where.


The turnover of cars is demanded by the consumer driven economy we have. Without reasonable obsolescence today the economic system would probably crash.


You can work around it to some extent. I drive a fourteen year old beater myself. It is not that common to see anything older still on the road around here. I have no wish to engage the heavy depreciation new cars demand as part of their ownership.


In fact it is of some concern that far too many people have no concept or even the slightest knowledge of their total cost per mile over the road with any car. What I drive has to be pretty reliable and dependable. I want cheap as well but that is not driven by any lack of means. Those cars pop up at unexpected times. I sometimes but not often pay a slight premium to get one. They also work oput better on the expense account.


That is based on you driving something that cost perhaps thirty thousand dollars today. We keep the wives 2012 volkswagon Passat on that account the most. When the warranty is gone in two and a half more years the car is. Far too much potential trouble exists and most of it would be expensive to address. suprising so far there have been no issues with it. It was a volkswagon diesel buy back and from an economic perspective works out really well. As long as I do the required general maintenance on it.

[Angel]

I appreciate the responses.
Ive kinda resigned to going with the 'standard' cam (idparts.com) , I cannot justify the increased cost of the hardened or stage 2 cam.
I agree that most cars are not meant to last, but this one is in pretty good shape, and I've been wanting a VW diesel for a while. My father told me that "if its not a new car, you are going to be fixing it - better buy something you want to fix." - I think I am ok fixing this one....for a while.
we'll see how long the cam lasts

[barry12345]

When manufactures include parts with issues in their production. It would be nice but not practical not to make them profit centers.

A type 505 synthetic oil is recommended as a replacement for either the no longer available. Or extremely hard to find original oil type. On the 2005 and 2006 engines.

Cars that demand special rated oils are perhaps asking for them. To mask an existing problem to some extent. It seems many volkswagon dealers do not even have the specified oils in their inventories. It may even be worse currently as volkswagon has switched over from Castrol oils to mobil one. Mobil one does not make even the right grade of oil in the type required. Available at dealers in volkswagon labeled containers.

So if I take the wives Passat to a dealer they will put in the right classification of oil. Just substandard in viscosity. It is below even volkswagons minimum requirements for their later diesel engines. As specified in their owners manual.

Specifically every day many of their dealers are putting in type 507 but only in a viscosity range of 0-30. The manual obviously prefers 5-40.

This is really not an attempt to start an oil thread. I took their substandard oil back to them. After I noticed the viscosity rating.

[Angel]

My local FLAPS (or, as I like to call it: "McParts") has 505.01 oil on the shelf behind the counter - Pentosin 5w40, The label says that it is compatible with VW 505.01.

Its $50 for 5qts - which $10-$ 15 more than most synthetics on the shelf. I have not done the math to see if $15? more per oil change, over 100k miles would pay for a hardened cam today. The fact that the factory spec(?) oil is on the shelf at all seems like a good sign to me. (also - lots of online retailers are happy to charge me similar money for the same product, so at least the oil is still out there...

-John

[vwnate1]

Agreed times have changed a lot .

It also depends on where you live ~ I grew up in snow country where salt was used incredibly heavily, three year old 1950's cars were often rusted so badly they were unsafe, not to mention not worth repairing .

That being said if one hunts there are always good under 10 year old low mileage vehicles out there if you beat the bushes, you may not get the car of your dreams but that's reality for you~ I looked at an unwanted Renault with only 73,000 original one owner, garage kept miles, no one wanted it so he junked it, running *perfectly* and looking new .

Some folks have the $ to buy what they want. the majority doesn't .

Were I still in my family raising years and near broke, I'da grabbed it no matter what brand .

I recently stumbled across a 2001 Ford Ranger pickup with under 118,000 miles and grabbed it ~ I'm more of a Chevy truck kinda guy but this thing was cheap and it runs great, I had to put a few thou$and into the normal things, belts, water pump, U-Joints ignition wires and plugs etc. but all well worth the effort I think .

Crawling underneath it I don't think there will be many of these left in the rust belt , poorly rust proofed from new but, it was a cheap truck when new as well .