Ultimate level of grip?

The reason why I'm wondering this is that a friend is making a huge deal out of the extremely high levels of grip of his 1989 BMW 325iX (iX=full time All wheel drive) with 17 inch wheels and 45-series H-rated tires.

Based on some somewhat non-scientific testing conducted late at night, his car will whip around a 90-degree corner (like from one residential street to another) at 43 to 45 mph with just a chirp from the tires.

In comparison, the 940SE in my sig got its rear end out somewhat at 35 mph, with H-rated 60-series Bridgestones on the front and studded snow tires on the rear. Oh yeah, the car has 15 inch rims.

The 740 Turbo in my sig gets around a 90-degree turn at a maximum of about 32 mph. Blame non-sticky Kelly Metric H-rated tires on the front and studded Michelin snows on the rear for part of it, but in the dry with four all-seasons, the 740 might have only managed 35 mph. This car also runs on 15 inch 60 series tires.

The 380SE's a little big to explore high grip levels with. I haven't really done that except on freeway cloverleafs.

But, seriously, does anyone know how fast their car will go around a 90-degree turn? I'm getting a little sick of all this talk about "BMW=ultimate handling ability" from my friend.

-Sam

[Peyton300TD]

in my parking garage i round the turns at 30mph easily to go up or down with no chirp. and this is at low tread and i just don't understand it. i mean the car leans in pretty hard too. i am thinking it may have a little to do with the hydroneumatic suspension in the rear. maybe not. or even the material of the garage floor. sometimes ill get a little chirp on the painted parking space lines.

of course i only do this when teh garage is empty

the rims are 14", Michelin X-one tires. ill be getting my 3rd set for free under warranty saturday.

which car is your's? the SE or the volvo?

eric

[pentoman]

Sam - don't worry, So what if a car can turn 90 degree corners quickly?

Nobody drives like that.. the most fun cars are ALWAYS the ones with sensible levels of grip working in unison with the chassis, suspension and you to put a big smile on your face.
Fun exists in finding and playing at the limits of your car, (easier done and more controllable if they are lower), not yanking the wheel round a 90 degree turn.

Oversized wide wheels and low-profile tyres will increase tramlining, reduce bump absorption and reduce stability over all but the smoothest of roads.


Point out the notoriously wobbly rear suspension of your friends E30 BMW 3-series and direct him to some European car magazines about it, if he's giving you 'ultimate driving machine' cr*p. It's the same suspension they put in the Z3, and the reason it is so hated by enthusiasts.

later

Russ

[4NDELIT]

I had an audi 5000cs quattro 5-speed, and you could take a sharp 90 degree turn at 35-40 mph without losing traction. IN THE RAIN! I loved that car, it really gripped hard, and I think audi is far superior in their AWD compared to anyone else [except maybe subaru].

The 740 Turbo is my car these days. I have it at my apartment in Seattle at college, and it's useful for driving over the mountains to eastern Washington State, as well as for other destinations (Bellingham, Canada, etc).

Which SE? Haha. The 380SE is usually my dad's car (back in high school and the first summer that I was back from college, I often got to drive it around when he wasn't using it). The 940SE is usually driven by my mom (the 740 Turbo used to be her car, and I had a Saab 900S).

The thing about the BMW is that with the big rims, it gives no indication about when it's going to "let go". The Volvo loses grip progressively, with mild rear-wheel drive oversteer. (i.e. it is possible to steer it with the throttle, which can be fun).

Plus, it takes medium and high-speed sweeping turns (on country roads) at ridiculous speeds. 35 mph advisory speed limit corners that I run through at 50-55 and slide the rear out out a little; well, the bloody BMW will pull through the same corners at 65 mph.

If it wasn't an AWD iX model, I'm sure my friend would have stuffed his car a long time ago, thanks to the squirrely semi-trailing-arm rear suspension of the E30.

I had an audi 5000cs quattro 5-speed, and you could take a sharp 90 degree turn at 35-40 mph without losing traction. IN THE RAIN! I loved that car, it really gripped hard, and I think audi is far superior in their AWD compared to anyone else [except maybe subaru].

That's what I'm talking about! I'm just a little jealous of insane AWD handling limits.

<---needs to find an A4 2.8 liter Quattro with sport package and show a 325iX what 20 plus years of AWD experience will do. Maybe in a few years...

-Sam

no matter what I think a 325ix would be cool to have for fun. BMWs may be the "Ultimate Driving Experince" in some ways but they are a step behind on true class.