Benz vs. Royce

[Robert Davis]

I would like some feedback from the many enthusiasts out there on a comparison on the quality of the Mercedes Benz vs. the Rolls Royce over the period of their entire development. I own several Benz's and know they were the official first car ever produced. I have also done research on the Rolls and found a great deal of myths surrounding this great car. It is true that Sir C.S. Rolls placed heavy emphasis on the upmost quality of his cars. I have read recent discussions on the quality of the modern Mercedes Benz and the constraints of the paying public. I also know modern Rolls go for over $200,000. This is why I am looking for comments over the entire life of the two, especially regarding prestige and quality. I look forward to reading your comments.

PS I know that Rolls are terribly expensive to maintain, even if you do it yourself.

[el presidente]

....that's an awful lot to swallow in one thread...

Here's my take (limited to autos, not aircraft engines, etc.)

Mercedes = Extremely high quality, durable, well-engineered, mass produced, broad product range.

RR = Hand built, superior quality, durable (at least until the mid-60's), very limited production, narrow product range.

[rickg]

My knowledge of RR quality of late, about twenty years ago I had a friend who had a friend who bought a new RR. I think it was within a year the paint was starting to come off. I mean OFF! It was pealing off in sheets. Seems he had other problems too, but that one has always stuck in my head. And I seem to remember hearing that this was not an isolated case. How can a car company like Rolls Royce market themselves as a top-notch, top of the line, hand built, finely crafted automobile, and have problems like that?

[Diesel-Lover]

Btwn a RR and a Bent, I'd take a bent a bit of simple elegance rather than garish ornamentation.

Limited production, therefore difficult to have process and product improvement from process learning.

Seeing an older rolls vs an older rover or a benz elicits different feelings. Take a look at the following picture of a 51mb, it just does it for me. If only I could get this one or something like a 55sl would be way cool as well.
Cant see myself taking care of an RR with the same verve that would manifest if I had that 51 mb or a 55sl or even a 95 300 cabriolet.

Just my two pence.
Pictures follow oops

[Diesel-Lover]

Here we go.

[dieseldude]

while certain;y no RR expert - I would echo the above comments. You talking about a quality mass-produced item in MB to more of a boutique brand in RR.

I.E. you'd never see a RR as a taxi anywhere. Benz has been able to refine just about every aspect of thier vehicles through millions of miles of testing and real-world punishment.

I'm sure materials in a Rolls (for the most part) are superior to Benz because of the severly lower production numbers (and higher price point), and I have no doubt the build quality overall, is pretty dang good, but something to be said for hard data aquired through real-world testing

Both ellicit such a different feeling from me, that I'm hard pressed to compare the two also. Like 'em both! Would probably never own a Roll's though. People think MB's are elitists cars enough as it is! Plus, I can't see an Arnage, or Silver Wriath providing the performance I'm used to in MB's

Regards,
- Ryan

[bobbyv]

part of the cachet of brands like Rolls-Royce comes from the exclusivity of having the wherewithal to put up with their shortcomings.

German taxi drivers on the other hand, choose the Benz because of its reliability and durability - i.e., long-term cost-effectiveness.

[LuckyF8]

I worked for the Worlds #1 RR Dealer in the early 80s, I think by 1983, RR produced a total of 42,000 cars (post war).

The new models, on the showroom floor had drip pans under them, if that tells you anything.

At the time I owned a,very clean, low mile, 1972 300SEL 4.5, and the Tech's thought it was just as nice as the Roller's, and had a better induction system. FI vrs SU Carbs. The 600SEL 6.9 kicked the RR butt in every aspect.

The RR of the 80"s was a nice car, don't get me wrong, just designed to be a Sunday Driver. As far as performance, it's a 6000lb Sleeper, that made lot's of power, never rated, or listed. We had one apart one time and measured 423 CI, it has Semi Hemi Heads, with a pressed steel billet crank, with bolt on counterweights. Awesome engine, over 400 HP tire turner.

One of my good friends still works for them, and his Mom worked for RR of North America for years.

RR had their old world approach to auto's, but I was suprised when I got to drive a twin turbo Bently back in the late 80's.........Fast.......Fast Car!

Overall RR is over rated, nice to look at, very costly to maintain.

We have more RR & MBZ in this town, than the other 49 states put together.

The old MBZ is just as good or better!

[rickjordan]

My independent mechanic, who has worked on a few RRs says, compared to Benzes, are pieces of junk. Now he wasn't commenting on the build quality, he was talking from a mechanics point of view. He said for getting parts, EVERYTHING had to be ordered and you would have to wait. He gave me an example of how the car was too complex for it's own good. He had a mid 70's RR Shadow (I believe) that had a bad starter. Now you would think I would be simple enough to repair, but here is the problem. On this particular car the gear selector lever was not directly connected to the transmission, it was connected to a hydraulic pump, that did the actuall lever action on the tranny. This was RR's way of making selecting gears real smooth. The problem is this hydraulic pump is engine driven, so since the stater is dead and you need it to start the engine, to drive the hyd. pump in order to shift out of park, you're basicly screwed. I never did find out how they managed to move the car to replace the starter, but it wasn't a cheap repair bill. He said you have to remember who Rolls Royces were originally built for, Kings and Queens. These cars never were built to be daily drivers and their owners had other cars, so if their RR broke down, they had another car at their disposal. It wasn't a big deal to be without the car for a week at a time. Where as us "regular" car owners would put up with it, so we demand our cars be reliable.

[LuckyF8]

You can't just order parts for a RR, like "I need a starter for a Bla Bla Bla....1988..... Bla bla"

What's the Vin #?, no Vin, no parts!

The Vin# is the key to the car, and only then, can you match the part's.

Try to, car jack, a RR, forget it, it has NO VALUE, no black market parts, nothing, Zip Naddda!

Every car is still documented to the numbers. I can still remember a couple of RR docs re: Hot cars.... ha ha, like someone will try to strip one for parts or so, not so!

Need some wood trim replacement, no problem RR has the exact matching wood with your Vin # stored for you! For Real!!! from the same tree, it's there!

Leather, no problem, it's there as well!

RR leather comes from the Conley Ranch, they control all the best hides, for RR cars, the spoils go to fine womens hand bag's.

We ordered leather for a car, and it came in a shipping tube, rolled it out, and it was the full skin, leg's and all, matching color!

The Fenders are called "Wings" and shipped in wooden crates.

And never open the door on a, Drop Head Coupe, when it is on the lift! It will bend the frame!

Any Question's?

[LuckyF8]

What good is shifting out of park without the engine running anyway?

Want to realy get upside down?, try the brakes, just like a F16 Aircraft System, no Sh*#'*!, The box is underneath the seat and works with inertia levers and hydro controls to do the job, You press the Brake pedal, you think, you are pushing on 2 rubber cones that compress to feel like a brake pedal! In fact you are opening a hydro valve that makes everything work.

You can fix this if it fails, no problem if you are the IRS!

[jjrodger]

I think RR suffered the same quality problems that any product manufactured in Britain between 1970 and 1985 suffered. Lazy, good-for-nothing union workers who felt they need not bother produced crap products.

RR for a long time has not been held up as manufacturer of the best car in the world. In 1977 Car magazine proclaimed that in a contest between the Shadow II, Jaguar XJ12 and MB 450 SEL 6.9 the Jag was the winner. And so it was until the W140 came along 15 years later.

Until recently RR mechanicals have been pretty robust. They are American, after all. The motor was a 6.75 litre V8. It was normally aspirated in nearly all RRs and fitted with a turbo in the Bentley. It is still in use in the Bentley Arnage, with twin turbos. The Arnage was originally fitted with a twin turbo BMW V8, but this was quickly replaced with the old stager. It develops mammoth torque, up to 650 lb/ft depending on the state of tune (that would be an Arnage T).

[rickjordan]

The reason you want to shift out of park is to be able to push the car into the bay to replace the starter. Even cars with power steering, can still be turned, albeit harder to do but it can still be done. I think Rolls Royce went too far with trying to isolate the driver from the mechanicals of the car. Of course now we have throttle by wire, brakes by wire ('03 SL). Next will be steering by wire. All this "by wire" stuff is fine as long as there is mechanical back.