Saab 900s?

Good reliable car? The winter woes of my low compression 240D (will not start after sitting outside for six hours in 11 degree weather...maybe too much to ask) has motivated me as well as my father to look at a reliable gasoline powered vehicle. I always liked the SAAB 900s of the late 80's...with a five speed manual transmission...how reliable are these and how cheap are the parts for this car? Should it be reliable?

Kyle,

My parents owned an '83 Saab 900S for 10 years, and I learned to drive stick on it. Here's some areas of concern that I know about these cars.

1. Manual transmissions are quite fragile on the classic Saab 900 body style, and fail frequently. Transmission replacement on this car will run you $4000, for parts and labor. And this would be a rebuilt tranny, not a new one.

2. Many electrical gremlins are present. Dash lighting often develops glitches (it did in our Saab, and also is acting up in one friend's 1990 900S 16-valve and my roommate's '88 900 Turbo Convertible).

3. Parts prices are fairly expensive. Saabs are pretty unconventional cars (the clutch is mounted in front of the engine...don't ask) and generally need someone who knows 'em to service them. Additionally, we've found that Mercedes and Volvo parts are often a good deal less expensive used (plus, you can find Mercedes and Volvo wrecking yards where I live. Try that with a Saab!)

In conclusion, if it's reliability you're looking for, I'd suggest you take a look at that "other Swedish car company". You could pick up a nice Volvo 740 Turbo or GLE for under $3000, spend $500 or so replacing needed items and have it run like a top!

For the record, my parents owned a couple of Volvo 240s when they lived back in Wisconsin, and those things would start even when it was close to 30 below zero (farenheit). I'd avoid the 240 body though, interior and electricals aren't as good as the 740 series.

Plus, with weight in the back, I've taken the 740 Turbo in my sig over absolutely horrid roads in the mountains of Washington State in the winter. It has a good amount of road clearance and won't get high-centered very easily. Good tires are important too...

You could always look at a 190E 2.3 too, but I dunno how good an early W201 would be. Opinions vary.

-Sam

[agplate]

I've had a few Saabs in the last few years, and I have mixed feelings and a love / hate thing with 'em.

Seems to me that the engines and bodies are the strongest thing about these cars. However, it was all the (many) little nitpicky things that drove me nuts. This didn't work or that was broken, or whatever. The trim is always falling off and plastic parts crack, etc.

My first was an '87 900S auto trans. At about 130k, the transmission just quit one day and I dumped the car. Late '80's Saabs are known for their BAD auto boxes. (something like the mercedes 3.5 diesels in the 350SDL's) If you're after a manual, you should be alright.

My second was an '89 9000CD which was a nice comfy car that did alot of hard work with very little maintenance. I traded that for a 1993 900S auto with only 30k miles on it. It's like new and so far very dependable.

The moral of the story is that if I needed a cheap and solid car for $1000 to $2000 bucks, I would say if not a Benz, then an old Saab 900 for sure. They are so cool and funky.
Just keep in mind that, in my experience, they are still pretty expensive to repair, not unlike the benz. Just the same, except for the dead transmission, I don't recall ever being stranded with our Saabs, and we drove many round trips between Arizona and Wisconsin.

I would say that you should shop around, because Saab resale is pretty low, and you can get a POS for nearly the same money as a reasonably clean one. Naturally, avoid the rusty ones and watch out for crappy paint from the eighties.

Most people who have a Saab are crazy in love with them.
check out
http://www.saabnet.com/
for more info and Saab Stories.

My second was an '89 9000CD which was a nice comfy car that did alot of hard work with very little maintenance. I traded that for a 1993 900S auto with only 30k miles on it. It's like new and so far very dependable.

A Saab 9000CD was the ONLY car that I've ever ridden in that spontaneously decided to roll down its power windows of its own accord during a rainstorm here in Seattle. At 70 mph. On I-5.

Hard to believe? Well, there were other witnesses too.

-Sam

[agplate]

Wow! If that doesn't sound like a classic Saab experience!!
I remember one 9000 website that listed preventative maintenance for a 9000 auto transmission....
dump it and buy a manual box!!

The funny thing is, new Saabs are much more desirable than new Volvos from a reliability and "togetherness" standpoint.

Volvos right now are about as together as automatic Saab 9000 CD Turbos of the late Eighties were. W126, was your parents's 9000T an autobox or a manual?

-Sam

These have close to the same performance as a WRX, but for less than $5,000.

Doesn't the Legacy Sport have 160 horsepower and weigh around 3000 pounds?

Sorry to rain on your parade, but that doesn't sound like WRX-like performance.

OTOH, there's the Audi 200 Turbo Quattro from 1991, with the DOHC turbo 5-cylinder and 220 horsepower....

-Sam

Kyle (and Eric, as well): Don't forget the N/A 5-speed manual Subaru Legacy from '90 to '94 with AWD, if you can't find a Sport in decent condition. These cars have some pep and are pretty fun to hammer through corners; the AWD makes them hang on to pavement like barnacles to ship bottoms. (I've driven my friend's '92 Subaru Legacy L wagon a couple times).

-Sam

I have been looking at the SAAB 900S 16 valve. Has something like 150HP with a 5 speed manual....oh yes. And I lvoe the Aerodynamic design in the loads of room.

123C...sadly enough the second Audi you showed...the 5000 wagon...appealed to me more than the first one! It's so funky and big..always admired the 5 speeds like that...I thought the cast iron fives were real reliable?

380SE: I like the old Subaru Loyale wagons ALOT! Especially with a 5 speed and with 4WD...very nice...very rusty though.

BTW...the 240D starts like a charm now...Power Service Diesel Treatment has boosted the cetane big time and now starts down to about 15 degrees after sitting overnight...had a compression check done and all 4 cylinders are ok according to the mechanic.

My friend Jeff has a 1980's Subaru BRAT 4wd truck hybrid thing. It's like a small El Camino. That car is really cool.

Lastly, any of you like the old 1983-1991 Toyota and Mistubishi vans? I call them "Space shuttle vans" or "Taliban Vans" because they are all pointy at the front and every news report from Afghanistan shows one of these....sadly enough I wanted one of these before I had my Benz...it was white too..and matched. My friend scot just bought a 500 dollar 300D Euro that looks just like mine (white w/ white hubcaps) Having a convoy with two White Benzes at front and back witht he white Taliban van in the middle would be a scene right out of Beiruit circa 1980's

I went on a rant...I am sorry and will be quiet now..

The computer sweatshop that I worked for after graduating college had a Mistubishi version. I was hit on the drivers side front corner by a Jeep Grand Cherokee that made a left turn right in front of me. I thought those vans were neat as a kid, but will never ever climb into one again after that wreck.

I have been looking at the SAAB 900S 16 valve. Has something like 150HP with a 5 speed manual....oh yes. And I lvoe the Aerodynamic design in the loads of room.

The 16-valve '90 900S that my friend drives is a pretty good car, except for a few electrical quirks (and who knows how long his manual tranny will last). BTW, they all have 130 hp (except for the 1993 model, which has 140 horsepower).

BUT:

It's slower than the '92 Legacy L automatic AWD wagon that my friend has; the Subaru has the same number of HP (130) but has a larger displacement with 2.2 liters, and has a broader torque curve. Plus, the Subaru boxer is less thrashy than the Saab at high RPMS and will spin up to 6,500 rpms (whereas the Saab redlines at 5,500 rpms). This Subaru has had no mechanical or electrical problems with over 160K on it (purchased by this friend at 120K; and he maintains it well).

I'd advise you to drive a nice Legacy AWD before you make a purchase decision on the Saab. You might be pleasantly surprised at the difference between the two cars.

-Sam

[Mark DiSilvestro]

I'd avoid any of the 'Taliban Vans'.
Scary handling deathtraps with horrible engine access. In a front end collision,
YOU are the airbag! Even with the Toyota versions' reputation for reliability, I wouldn't risk my life in one.

Happy Motoring, Mark