This is a controversial thread so WATCH OUT!!!
 

Which is better to you: BMW, Lexus, or MB. It can be for any reason. This could get CONTROVERSIAL so watch out! Do not participate if you can't handle it.

Thanks
David

Well I voted with my head and not my heart. Please forgive me, if I had to drive the same car everyday and out of town it would be a Lexus.

I know what you mean about Volvo, they are often over-looked. Very dependable. I don't know about the new ones since they have been bought by Ford.
David

you could look at older cars also. Lexus has NO HISTORY as a car manufacturer. They never had to build for 2 world wars. Mercedes has come up with more ideas, including the car itself!, then Lexus could ever do. All they seem to do is to just make a car that has a lot of the toys of MB and make them cheaper.
David

Lexus, a Toyota with leather seats and a navigation system. oh yeah, they can charge you more now.
David

We could set a standard here. Let's compare a NEW Lexus LS430 to a, let's say 1972 280SEL 4.5. Which would be better? Looks? power? You could even look at the 109's. I belive that with THAT car they set a standard of what all cars should be built off. God, I love those cars. They are the BEST looking cars that have ever been built.
David

Ditto. I voted for Lexus.

If I had to buy a brand new car, with the quality problems Mercedes is having, I'd buy a Lexus.

My heart tells me Mercedes, but my head, Lexus.

A former college professor of mine whom I've kept in touch with bought a brand new S80, and it was one of the nicest cars I have ever driven in. The exterior styling is beautiful, but the interior design and quality is even better. It belongs in a museum.

But an s500 would be safer than the Lexus. Has side curtains in front AND back. Lexus only has it on the front. And of course with MB, it is STANDARD!
David

Cute. :p


I can't speak for BMW, but having owned Lexus and Mercedes, I can vouch for the avaibility of techs for Lexus (I can goto Toyota so have most services done), and the overall cheaper maintenance than Mercedes.

The Lexus ('95 LS400) quality overall is also pretty good, but Mercedes shines in its solidity (W124 and W201 models).

Weighing the pro's and con's, in the end, I'd pick Mercedes :)

Hey, I love ol MB's as much as the next guy, but I hafta say that 280SEL 4.5 would not be capable of keeping up with an LS430 on any road. Looks is too subjective to say, but in sheer performance the older cars don't stand a chance. New cars have better suspensions, better brakes (by a mile) and way more power out of much more fuel efficient designs. It's no contest.

Now, the 4.5 is a terrific car, and was the best car in it's day. They have proven themselves by standing the test of time, and those that escaped the rust belt (another plus for new cars) have held their value and their appeal. My Dad has a 1973 300SEL 4.5 and it's a hoot to drive, but I can easily outrun it in my C230, much less a V-8 sedan. That does not mean the C230 is better, but your point about the older cars having a power edge is completely off the mark.

If Mercedes built the 4.5 today, it would be a flop. It would fail today's crash standards in horrific fashion. It would suck way too much gas for it's performance. It would be laughed at on the slalom course. It's brakes would leave it at the back of the pack in any comparision. It's styling would be a winner, but the consumers would howl at it's weak AC. It would be priced twice any of it's competitors, and that would seal it's fate.

It's a great car, and will always be a great car. It would be a giant loser stacked up against any modern luxury sedan.

I didn't mean that it would be better now, but rather that Lexus has not been around to say that they have a car that could always be a classic. Do you think that 30 years from now people will look back at the 430 and say what a classic? the new Lexus cars don't exceed the competition like the 280 did back then. I am sorry if people took it that I thought a 108 could be safer, outbrake, faster, and more luxurious. I just used it as an example of a classic that lexus will NEVER have. They can never say they built a better looking car. It would be funnu though to see a 108 hit a new Lexus head on. I know the lexus would be safer but it would show a difference in build materials.
Oh yeah, Mercedes use thicker steel than Japanese cars. One more thing that puts MB ahead of Lexus.
David

what makes a 430 stand out among other cars today that could make it a classic over other cars? You can say reliabilty, but a lot of cars are as reliable if not more. Luxury, what does the 430 have that you can't get in an Infinity, or even a Taurus?
David

If you were to give me the choice of a 108 or 109 to be in, or the LS430, in a head on between the two, I'd pick the LS EVERY time. If the MB does not show outward damage, the impact energy had to go somewhere. Typically in older designs, it goes into the passengers. Bad news. The LS will deform and absorb the impact. The difference in build materials is startling. The LS uses much better quality steel. Alloy technology has progressed some ways in 30 years. The LS's interior materials are WAY safer, if not as robust. There are no sharp objects in that interior.

I think Lexus builds as good as cars as anyone on the planet. 99.99% of buyers don't give a rat's ass about who built the first car. That means nothing. MB's history is worthless of they don't build exceptional automobiles today. Lexus knows it, and has built an amazing reputation in less than 15 years. Every car maker is envious of Toyota/Lexus' inroads in such a short time.

I would not hesitate to buy a Lexus product. Who cares if it's not destined to become a "classic." Does that play into the purchase equation? Nope. People want a well built luxury car that is reliable and drives the way they expect. The reason I don't own a Lexus is that they don't drive the way I like. I prefer the slow-steering German RWD sedans like the W140, W124, W210, W202 and so on. They just feel "right" to me. Only a very few MB's are destined to become "classics" and it's tough to tell at their time of original build. The R129 roadsters are becoming used cars as the R230 hits the streets, and prices are falling like crazy. This does not mean they're not desirable cars, but they're still just used cars, though expensive ones.

Look at the folks on the forum. We're all MB NUTS. However, we are realists too, and understand that Lexus builds a great car, even one some of us might buy. It ain't us. vs. them, but just car nuts checking out the best car line-ups to be seen.

Bill, you don't have crystal balls?:D :D

anyone support BMW's over MB or Lexus? I know they have had problems but are their many people who would take a new BMW over an MB or Lexus? I do not hear much about their customer service, etc.
David

Anyhow, weren't we talking about Lexus vs BMW vs MBZ?

I think that MBZ & BMW will be "classic" as time goes by. Their studios spend much more time shaping/styling their cars (say my friends in the industry).

I think that a Lexus will on average, be a cheaper car to keep. Lexus is also the most BORING of the three - by a long shot. I seriously doubt anyone will consider them a classic as time goes by.

Also - I don't like the new BMWs (except the Z4) and I don't like the newer MBZ either - look/feel cheap to me.

So I go with...

The new Audi A8

My best friend's uncle bought a new Audi 8 and loves it. My friend drove it who never liked foreign cars till he drove my dad's car. Said it was just awesome. Do they cost as much as something like an E500?
David

Don't know how much the new A8 cost but I'm sure it's a lot! I'd wait for a lease return - if this second gen A8 is like the first, they'll depcriciate like an old Q45!

this thread certainly is controversial so it is a good thing I warned everyone before they even open this.

Longston is gone, so I've taken up the stick. I've only got a single barrel compared to his double magnum...

Yup. Man, do Audi's depreciate! A friend of mine picked up a cherry A4 1.8T for next to nothing. Dealers try to get top prices so the new car buyers don't think their cars will be worthless three years down the road, but don't let those prices be your guide.

How about BMW? I can get a 1997 740iL locally for about $35K. Can't buy a 1997 E320 for much less than that, and a 1997 S500 is still a $55-60K car here. I had a 1997 528i I'm glad I ditched, as I see them for $25K now. Cripes! Those were $60K plus cars new. That's a hit!

The best car for lack of depreciation is a Civic or Corolla. In the luxury category, MB still wins, hands down.

An old Q45 was worhtless the day they rolled onto the floor. I know the Infinity dealer, and in 1997 they had 1995 models unsold. Things sure have turned around there...

...though the Q is still a slow seller.

Huh? Check Scott's history on dealing with the pups on the board. Scott and I might have our differences on some issues, but on many aspects of life, including respect for our friends and neighbours, we're on the same page. Besides, some of the folks on the board I have the most respect for are my complete opposites on most issues. It comes down to strength of belief and ability to understand the issues. I have shared many a pint with folks that would call mikemover "liberal."

So why would people support MB over Lexus? I have numerous ones which I do not want to wirte all them out all though I have written some of them. They span everywhere from quality, safelty, to luxury. The place the Lexus accels is $$$$ and reliability. Not to say that an MB is not going to be unreliable, but just maybe a LITTLE less. An unreliable MB I think would still be more reliable than many other car manufacturers reliable cars. Besides, MB has a certain elegance, even the name Mercedes-Benz makes it sound cool.
I personally love and adore Mercedes-Benz and will hopefully always as long as they don't become too much like American cars. i.e. GM. NO ONE SAY ANYTHING ABOUT GM BECAUSE SOMEONE WILL GO ON ABOUT A TRUCK THEY HAD IN 1978 OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT, THAT HAD 200,000 MILES AND IT LOOKED NEW. I am just saying that now to get it out of the way because I know someone is waiting to jump on that one.
What is better about an LS430 than an S500? Brakes? Performance? Luxury? Safety? I believe that ALL of those will be answered no. The S500 could beat an LS430 in all those areas. BUT, the LS 430 might run 25,000 more miles, and one less power window might break. With the Mercedes you may not get a polite person on the phone, which is sad but true, but I also don't think that everyone at Lexus is always perfect either.
David

Where else does the Lexus accel over MB other than reliability? Nothing is perfect. But I guess it all depends on how much money you want to spend on it.

Howdy All,
I voted for Mercedes because the star looks so good on the front of a Mog :cool:

You dare gone, where no man had gone before! lol

So I ask you: What companies have been surpassed by the likes of Kia? (Ok, maybe LADA....)

I think that the strategic partners are linked w/ Chrysler. I remember my Dodge Caravan had the mistubishi engine in it.

I doubt Mercedes had anything to do w/ them before the merger.

Shoot...well at long as I don't find Korean parts in my W124 I'm happy :D :P :)

I traded my LS400 in on a W140,500SEL. Bad move. I have had every problem that you will find in this forum.Wish i had my Lexus back.Not ever a problem. Not even 1 repair in 5 years.Just me 2 cents.

?????? Are you being a funny man, or trying to look for crap once again? :rolleyes: :confused:

I was lost a for a second, b/c you brought up the word "slur."

Not like I said "Kor parts." lol. Shoot...


Korean parts..yes.. well cars in a whole. My latest experience was about a year ago when I came to Hyundai to test drive tiburon. I went in, the car is brand new, all cool looking like a Ferrari... 10 miles on it. The sunroof broke, and the seat did too. That was it for me! lol

blackmercedes -

I have to disagree with you about an old Q45 being worthless -

I have both a 92 Q45 and a 92 W124 400e. Thought the Q45 doesnot have as much "character" as a W124 it does have it's strengths in places the 400e does not.

Q45's transmission is SUPERIOR - MUCH smoother and quicker to respond - make the W124s tranny feel sub-par. MUCH quicker off the line. It has also been much cheaper to maintain. I have nearly double the mileage on the Q as I have on the 400e - guess which one has cost significantly more to run? The Q gets 4 mpg better on the open road. NHV levels are much lower in the Q. Overall ergonomics/ingrees/egress are superior as well. Paint looks to be of significantly better quality. AC is SUPERIOR both in longevity and performance - the digital controler imidiately changes temp as well as blows cold instantly and does not howl like a gale wind when turned up.

Yes there are places where the 400e bests the Q45 - but please do not think they are worthless!

I love them both!

Voted for Mercedes, won't drive anything under 25 years old, me, and you won't catch me in a 25 year old Toyota.

Whoops. I meant in terms of their MSRP. They can be troublesome, but I have heard of plenty of owners that have lots of trouble free miles on their early Q45's. My comment was directly in relation to deprecation for the original owner...

Mature points of views
 

I just read the entire thread here and it was nice to hear clean and mature points of views on the never ending Mercedes/Lexus comparison.

I remember seeing a similar thread on www.mbworld.org where the moderator of all people was categorically dismissing the Lexus as not being worthy for a comparison to MB and when somebody suggested otherwise, he defaulted to dismiss those opinions based on silly arguments such as that they were merely envious of people who could afford to drive a real car. Personally I get embarrassed on behalf of MB brand when jerks like that hail the MB brand. I like to think MB drivers are a little more educated than that.

I for one very much agree with blackmercedes. Lexus enjoys a brand reputation that we true MB enthusiast envy. I am not afraid to say that. I have driven the LS430 and I have developed this love/hate relation ship to it. My brain keeps telling me that it would be a sensible buy an I would truely enjoy the quality ride and comfort. But then my heart and performance deamon sets their eyes on a AMG and I then hate the fact that MB dosen't enjoy the Lexus reliability/customer relation reputation.

I will be driving MB for the rest of my life.
In 2000, we leased a starmarked S500 from -96 and I still miss that car. By far overshines the LS430. But reports on maintenance costs seems scary to me.
Just bought a -89 560sel one owner perfect CA car with 63000 miles. I believe I can afford that maintenance. - and I am dying to drive it on the 24th when my father in law drives it up to Seattle.

;) just my 2 cent worth

Jari Kristensen

Mercedes-Benz has all the glory in my eyes.

I used to own a Lexus, and I now have a 93 500 SEL. I've never owned a BMW, but I did consider it before I went with the old Benz. I can vouch for what Rebenz wrote a couple of weeks ago. My Lexus was NEVER in the shop. Not once, for anything other than scheduled maint. That's over 5.5 years of ownership. Since I can't really speak about BMW, I'll only comapare the other 2. The fit and finish of both cars is excellent. The materials are both very high quality - nice wood and leather, comfortable interiors, etc. I think the big difference comes in styling. Almost every Lexus, with the exception of the new SC430, is very plain, and somewhat boring. Stark comparionson to MB or BMW. ( I like the new 7-series styling BTW) In many ways, the largest influencing factor in a car becomming a "classic" is the styling. Is the car exciting? Is it unique? Is it timeless? I can't tell you how many times I mistook a Avelon or even a Camry from a distance, for my Lexus. That just never happens with a MB. I'm also very turned-off by the Chrysler influence. I just don't know if I could bring myself to buy a new MB. I would always be trying to figure out what parts were actually Chrysler junk.

Reading this poll/thread I think Lexus has done exactly what they set out to do. Everybody smirked (I know I damn near cracked up) when they announced they were going after MB and BMW. But there was one thing they had in their favor that should have wiped the smile from our faces and that was reliabilty and cost of ownership. Apparently consumers care about these two things...go figure.

It seems we mainly buy MB's for nostalgic and resale reasons. But what good is a good resale if the car was in the garage most of the time and never ran right for you:rolleyes:

Like somebody said when it comes down to picking between the two it seems to come down to heart and brain...thats rather sad, for MB:(

I voted MB by the way. Ever since I got pulled in by the W126 I became a sucker for life:D

I voted M-B, but I might have voted BMW if we were still in the Pre-Bangle era...

The mystique and reputation of the MB clearly outranks the posers bmw and lexus. In our culture, what is ultimately real is the facade, the appearance: content means nothing, i.e., is a coefficient of its media. Who is interested in a lexus? the same people who used to buy buick roadmasters. BMW's? 80's yuppies wanna-be's.

But for those of us who deal with cultural realities, we drive an mb becuase we bought the star

MB vs Lexus sounds a lot like the Ford vs Chevy rivelry. There both the right car for the right person. It depends on what you want out of a car. Do you want history, and tank like construction that stands the test of time buy a MB. If you want a good car to drive and forget about for a few years then buy a Lexus. If want want a fast car that is a lot of fun to drive and push to the limits then buy a BMW. "What ever floats your boat" as they say.

I agree with what you said Hatterasguy.
I want an MB no matter what, but, like you said, each one of them fits a different kind of person.
Tim

sillyness
 

Well when Lexus first came out we all knew they were just rebadged Toyotas.

I've driven several of them. Sterile. Boring.
I've owned a 1993 300E, 1994 E420, and 2 E500's 1994.

I used to be a valet for the most expensive restaurant in Boston- L'espalier.

When I first started working there I thought Hondas were pretty good cars, I liked the "greased glass" steering of the Acuras. I though BMW's were zippy cars, I thought Mercedes cars were under powered save for the 420, 560 models.

Over time of driving these cars my opinons changed. I began to dislike driving the Hodas- with their thinnly upholstered seats- interiors that always got moldy smelling, I began to dislike the Acuras for the very reason I liked them in the first place - the effortless steering, I began to realize that BMW's were not the Ultimate driving machines and in the end only liked the M3 and the 535's and 635csi's. I realized that Jaguars were horrible investments in terms of their electrical systems and the XJ6 the worlds worst snow car.

Cars that I liked getting after working there for 4 years. Mercedes 560 SEL, 560 SL, 560Sec (a little slower always) Mercedes 190E 2.6, 300E, 400E, 500E, E420, E500, all the SL's, 6.9,even the 260se and older makes, For BMW 325's, M3, M5. Maserati Quatroporte, Maserati Biturbo, And for sports cars all the Ferraris, 944 Turbos, 928s4, 911 turbo, 930 turbo, one 959 (Smuggled into the USA as a 930- photos swapped- a true heart attack car), Lamborghini Miura, and to my surprise one souped up V8 Camaro that used to come in that was actually a lot of fun....(guilty pleasure).

Lexus...don't even remember them.

The Mercedes cars kept looking nice and keep running well year after year barely showing their age. Best longevity has to go to the BMW 635CSI which I routinely got in with 200K +on the odometer.....get this they seemed like they broke in AFTER 150,000 miles. They still ran like a top- great cars.

I also noticed the Mercedes Benz owners were more knowledgeable about cars and quality in general. They were more likely to complain if something was not right. Lexus owners did not seem like car enthusiasts. It would come as no surprise to me that Lexus owners LOVE LEXUS I mean....if you were used to being treatment from a Toyota dealership and went to Lexus...what would you think? Mercedes owners seem a little more spoiled and they expect the world from their dealerships...and most of the time...they do get the world from their dealerships.

How about this true story. I'm skiing in Vermont. Viti Mercedes of Rhode Island usually services my car. I call them - ask about a minor problem. I tell them that It will have to wait until I get back. They reply..."well...where are you". I say "Vermont- about 6 hours away". They replied- "a man will be at your door with a loaner car at 8:00am the next morning,,,,,we will repair your car and have it back to you at 8:00 am tomorrow". They did it. No hassles.

This went on like this for years. I could be in the Hamptons and they would service my car. Always returned interior cleaned and washed.

Well nothing is perfect...the dealership grew and last time I went in they totally screwed up everything- scratched my car, screwed up the Autobond application for preventing rock damage, and didn't do 1/2 of the work yet charged me anyway. Of course I was pissed...but what can you expect- perfection....everytime...FOREVER?? this is what Mercedes Owners have over the years come to expect. It took me a while to be thankful for all the years of good service I got. For the Toyota owner...this screw up could be the norm not the exception.

As for BMW-
BMW is totally driver biased- even the radio and climate controls face the driver. When I'm driving - I like the passenger to handle those things while I concentrate on driving. BMW resale? How can you afford to buy a BMW after you compare the resale to Mercedes? Also as a Valet I noticed that BMW's got broken into all the time and rarely did Mercedes. We used to call B-M-W..... Break-My-Window.

BMW does have sweet gearboxes though.

But Lexus? Quiet yes...but how quiet? On the charts Lexus looks really quiet... but the human ear doesn't hear like a microphone and we are more sensitive to certain frequencies- Mercedes engineers knew this and the car may not measure as quiet but is more pleasingly quiet- in a way - library quiet...calming. The MB engineers took care to quiet the car as needed to get the desired effect.

My Dad bought a Lexus- he LOVES it. I hate it. My dad can't even change a blown fuse. He likes his Lexus dealer. He already knew he was going to give the dealer top marks before he even walked into a Lexus dealership. I tell him stories of my Mercedes dealer and he is blown away and won't believe them- but he still thinks his Lexus dealer is the best. He loves watching the odometer on his Lexus go up....I hate to see mine climb on my E500 (Because someday the car might be a collectible)- my Dads car will never ever ever ever ever be collectible. No one would ever give a rusted out Lexus a second though to restoring it...they will rust slowly and unstoppably ...never to be rescued from a junkyard. Just another throwaway car ..they just aren't worth it. My Dad doesn't care. He just wants a car, he wants a Lexus. He will buy a Lexus again. He will never test drive a Mercedes. He has driven my E500 and doesn't like the steering that requires some effort, doesn't like my powerful brakes, doen't like my cars superior cornering ability, doesn't like the hunkered down feeling of this car sucking up the road. He likes his Lexus. IMHO many many Lexus owners are like my Dad. They don't know quality when they see it. They don't see the subtlties that makes Mercedes Benz ....MERCEDES-BENZ. My Dad doesn't mind drinking wine from a plastic cup. He is a Lexus Owner.

I was in a horrible accident in my E500. A 21 year old kid rammed my rear drivers quarter panel at about 70-mph while I was going 20mph in Harvard Square. Threw me sideways into a parked Honda Civic (could have been a Lexus) I hit the Civic with so much force that I put the trunk of the civic into the drivers seat.

I would have been dead in a top of the line Lexus.


Dead dead dead dead dead dead- squashed like a grape. The spare tire from the trunk would have been embedded in my head. My Dad wouldn't like Lexus if this happened to me.

I got out without a scratch.
Some back pain- still got it- no cuts though and the passenger compartment of my car was essentially intact- such a shame to see all that nice leather go to waste at the crusher.

Car was totaled- every panel hit and crushed except for the trunk and nose.


The high resale value of my E500 Mercedes got me into exactly the same car. If I had been in a 5 series BMW I would have had enough money from the insurance to buy a low mileage 3 series. That's just the way it is....reality can suck. I had to argue with the insurance company to find my way back into the same car....and show resale vale of various E500's. I would have lost if it had been a high end low mileage 1994 BMW.

I can drive a W124 mercedes in traffic with my left hand- controlling cruise control, directionals. Leaving my other hand free for an attractive lady sitting next to me that knows the difference between a Lexus BMW and a Mercedes. With a BMW I need to always drive with both hands - which is why you see more attractive women being driven by Mercedes Owners ;)

Or I can drive my E500 two handed and make the world a blur.

erase, you should contact the "most expensive" car mags.

im sure they would be interested in adding a "valet's review" section to their testing criteria or editorial content. :o

I also noticed the Mercedes Benz owners were more knowledgeable about cars and quality in general.

Much like VW owners who are often on a first name basis with the personel at the parts department because of the frequency of repairs.

I think your comments speak more to the type of person i.e. ethusiast vs non enthusiast. And yes Lexus are boring (NO SOUL)! And there interiors biodegrade with age. But Mercedes wiring/electrical seems to biodegrade with age, so I guess one has to be clear on their priorities.

I think people who are fed up with the quirks of MBZ migrated to Lexus (and now Infiniti) and the enthusiats are buying up the "left overs."

BTW, my W124 is not great when it comes to NHV. Our 92 Q45 is SUPERIOR in this regard.

all in fun
 

W124's are old cars. The E500 didn't do so badly with value I got a $46,100 settlement for my 1994 E500 which I owned for about a year and paid $48,000 for.

. 300E's and 400E's got hit harder. I just picked up an E420 with 1994 with 43k for $11,000 darn wish I paid more. Lol.

hey it's all in fun....but I really don't see the fuss about Infinity and Lexus. I do understand that MBZ owners have had wiring harnesses ever since they MBZ tried to use environmentally friendly harnesses as opposed to ones that NEVER degrade. Also MBZ dealers need some kicks in the ass to get their customer service to where it once was.

They need that special guy who wallks around from dealership to dealership posing as a customer- everytime he gets rooked he says to the guy...."Here's your box....got get your stuff- you're through."

If a dealship hires more than 4 of those employees and doesn't weed them out by firing them himself- the dealership looses the brand.


Lexus as a newer brand doesn't ahve all those crappy dealer dinosaurs hanging on.

I have a great mechanic though. Paul Lussier at foreign Motors west. He owns a w124 E500 and truly loves these cars.

As surprising as it may seem - with all of the quality problems that Mercedes has been having - they are selling more cars now than they ever have.

I think the vast majority of Lexi and Infiniti owners have migrated over from Buick / Oldsmobile / Cadillac / Toyota / Honda.

Mb seeling more than ever
 

- and why is that?

I mean I love especially the S class of the -90. But we currently have 2 S-classes from -86 and -89.

I really would wish MB had kept their reliability reputation. I mean wasn't that a part of the smartness of buying a MB in the first place.

The fact that I have to admit to envy the reliability of Japanese cars (Lexus) irritates the hell out of me.

MB, what are you doing about it?????????????

- A troubled believer.

Leasing is a popular option
 

I think that Mercedes Benz now is concernd with getting the cars off the boats and sold.

With so many people leasing nowadays- and the ability to write off some of that. Mercedes high end customer realizes that they may only keep the car for 4 years.

For that 4 years MB warranty covers them.

Why should a Mercedes Benz inital buyer care? Besides long term value goes out teh window when you lease a new car every 4 years- and as prices continue to increase- leasing may be the only option for some.

Besides after the car is purchased- MB has their money...now they can go after the second buyer with the lucrative service business and parts. Look at how ridiculously expensive Honda parts are compared the the cost of the whole car.

Mercedes might soon follow suit.

And Mercedes Starmark? I'm not sure but I think a company that the owner of the Miami Dolphins, Wayne H., owns underwrites that- so again it is nothing off of Mercedes bottom line.

Mercedes makes profit on the C-class cars. The downward stampede cheapens the brand.

Mercedes is banking that the affluent upper market is buying for prestige and no longer for thrift (We all know how cheap Mercedes Diesels are to run in the long run) .

So where is the Mercedes affluent customer to go anyhow without moving downward? Bentley??? Hardly- now the reliability of those Bentleys and upkeep is out of many of the Mercedes Owners reach anyhow.

Mercedes is simply abandoning some of its original goals those being- the best in:

reliability
long term value
Car for those who can aford the best
Build quality

(I believe Build quality has slipped more than anything else...one only has to look at the M-class- many people in MB service thought that some of the New M-class body panels gaps were so large and uneven after assembly that the cars had been in accidents!) The New C- Class cars have American economy car cloth interiors.

Realistically the topic of this is pretty juvenille. We all know why we purchased Mercedes, and for the most part we are trying to hold onto a quality level that was established by a company that has joined another with much lower quality standards. Talk about polluting the base stocks.

I'm no more envious of Lexus than Honda- but I am sorry to see things of special quality fade from our culture and just become more of the mass of things we call "stuff". As humans we should aspire to make things better- not just the same.