This is a controversial thread so WATCH OUT!!!

[WANT '71 280SEL]

Which is better to you: BMW, Lexus, or MB. It can be for any reason. This could get CONTROVERSIAL so watch out! Do not participate if you can't handle it.

Thanks
David

[hill]

Well I voted with my head and not my heart. Please forgive me, if I had to drive the same car everyday and out of town it would be a Lexus.

[WANT '71 280SEL]

I know what you mean about Volvo, they are often over-looked. Very dependable. I don't know about the new ones since they have been bought by Ford.
David

[WANT '71 280SEL]

you could look at older cars also. Lexus has NO HISTORY as a car manufacturer. They never had to build for 2 world wars. Mercedes has come up with more ideas, including the car itself!, then Lexus could ever do. All they seem to do is to just make a car that has a lot of the toys of MB and make them cheaper.
David

[WANT '71 280SEL]

Lexus, a Toyota with leather seats and a navigation system. oh yeah, they can charge you more now.
David

[WANT '71 280SEL]

We could set a standard here. Let's compare a NEW Lexus LS430 to a, let's say 1972 280SEL 4.5. Which would be better? Looks? power? You could even look at the 109's. I belive that with THAT car they set a standard of what all cars should be built off. God, I love those cars. They are the BEST looking cars that have ever been built.
David

[suginami]

Originally posted by TXBill
Of the three choices given that was my vote too. I love my old benz, but with modern cars I would rather have the Lexus.

Ditto. I voted for Lexus.

If I had to buy a brand new car, with the quality problems Mercedes is having, I'd buy a Lexus.

My heart tells me Mercedes, but my head, Lexus.

A former college professor of mine whom I've kept in touch with bought a brand new S80, and it was one of the nicest cars I have ever driven in. The exterior styling is beautiful, but the interior design and quality is even better. It belongs in a museum.

[WANT '71 280SEL]

But an s500 would be safer than the Lexus. Has side curtains in front AND back. Lexus only has it on the front. And of course with MB, it is STANDARD!
David

[The Godfather]

Originally posted by TXBill

I hope your thread does not get closed down, and I hope that no one decides to arbitrarily change your poll.

Cute. :p


I can't speak for BMW, but having owned Lexus and Mercedes, I can vouch for the avaibility of techs for Lexus (I can goto Toyota so have most services done), and the overall cheaper maintenance than Mercedes.

The Lexus ('95 LS400) quality overall is also pretty good, but Mercedes shines in its solidity (W124 and W201 models).

Weighing the pro's and con's, in the end, I'd pick Mercedes

[blackmercedes]

Originally posted by WANT '71 280SEL
We could set a standard here. Let's compare a NEW Lexus LS430 to a, let's say 1972 280SEL 4.5. Which would be better? Looks? power? You could even look at the 109's. I belive that with THAT car they set a standard of what all cars should be built off. God, I love those cars. They are the BEST looking cars that have ever been built.
David

Hey, I love ol MB's as much as the next guy, but I hafta say that 280SEL 4.5 would not be capable of keeping up with an LS430 on any road. Looks is too subjective to say, but in sheer performance the older cars don't stand a chance. New cars have better suspensions, better brakes (by a mile) and way more power out of much more fuel efficient designs. It's no contest.

Now, the 4.5 is a terrific car, and was the best car in it's day. They have proven themselves by standing the test of time, and those that escaped the rust belt (another plus for new cars) have held their value and their appeal. My Dad has a 1973 300SEL 4.5 and it's a hoot to drive, but I can easily outrun it in my C230, much less a V-8 sedan. That does not mean the C230 is better, but your point about the older cars having a power edge is completely off the mark.

If Mercedes built the 4.5 today, it would be a flop. It would fail today's crash standards in horrific fashion. It would suck way too much gas for it's performance. It would be laughed at on the slalom course. It's brakes would leave it at the back of the pack in any comparision. It's styling would be a winner, but the consumers would howl at it's weak AC. It would be priced twice any of it's competitors, and that would seal it's fate.

It's a great car, and will always be a great car. It would be a giant loser stacked up against any modern luxury sedan.

[WANT '71 280SEL]

I didn't mean that it would be better now, but rather that Lexus has not been around to say that they have a car that could always be a classic. Do you think that 30 years from now people will look back at the 430 and say what a classic? the new Lexus cars don't exceed the competition like the 280 did back then. I am sorry if people took it that I thought a 108 could be safer, outbrake, faster, and more luxurious. I just used it as an example of a classic that lexus will NEVER have. They can never say they built a better looking car. It would be funnu though to see a 108 hit a new Lexus head on. I know the lexus would be safer but it would show a difference in build materials.
Oh yeah, Mercedes use thicker steel than Japanese cars. One more thing that puts MB ahead of Lexus.
David

[WANT '71 280SEL]

what makes a 430 stand out among other cars today that could make it a classic over other cars? You can say reliabilty, but a lot of cars are as reliable if not more. Luxury, what does the 430 have that you can't get in an Infinity, or even a Taurus?
David

[blackmercedes]

Originally posted by WANT '71 280SEL
It would be funnu though to see a 108 hit a new Lexus head on. I know the lexus would be safer but it would show a difference in build materials.
Oh yeah, Mercedes use thicker steel than Japanese cars. One more thing that puts MB ahead of Lexus.
David

If you were to give me the choice of a 108 or 109 to be in, or the LS430, in a head on between the two, I'd pick the LS EVERY time. If the MB does not show outward damage, the impact energy had to go somewhere. Typically in older designs, it goes into the passengers. Bad news. The LS will deform and absorb the impact. The difference in build materials is startling. The LS uses much better quality steel. Alloy technology has progressed some ways in 30 years. The LS's interior materials are WAY safer, if not as robust. There are no sharp objects in that interior.

I think Lexus builds as good as cars as anyone on the planet. 99.99% of buyers don't give a rat's ass about who built the first car. That means nothing. MB's history is worthless of they don't build exceptional automobiles today. Lexus knows it, and has built an amazing reputation in less than 15 years. Every car maker is envious of Toyota/Lexus' inroads in such a short time.

I would not hesitate to buy a Lexus product. Who cares if it's not destined to become a "classic." Does that play into the purchase equation? Nope. People want a well built luxury car that is reliable and drives the way they expect. The reason I don't own a Lexus is that they don't drive the way I like. I prefer the slow-steering German RWD sedans like the W140, W124, W210, W202 and so on. They just feel "right" to me. Only a very few MB's are destined to become "classics" and it's tough to tell at their time of original build. The R129 roadsters are becoming used cars as the R230 hits the streets, and prices are falling like crazy. This does not mean they're not desirable cars, but they're still just used cars, though expensive ones.

Look at the folks on the forum. We're all MB NUTS. However, we are realists too, and understand that Lexus builds a great car, even one some of us might buy. It ain't us. vs. them, but just car nuts checking out the best car line-ups to be seen.

[blackmercedes]

Originally posted by TXBill
We don't have our crystal balls so we can't say that a Lexus won't be considered a classic car 30 years from now.

Bill, you don't have crystal balls?

[WANT '71 280SEL]

anyone support BMW's over MB or Lexus? I know they have had problems but are their many people who would take a new BMW over an MB or Lexus? I do not hear much about their customer service, etc.
David