I have officially given up looking for a paying summer clerk job. I am in my second year, and if I dont get a job for the summer, chances are no one will hire me after I graduate. Its not that my grades are bad, its that no firm is hiring. And this isnt confined to Cincinnati, where I live. I have friends in other states with same problem. Even my girlfriend who is ranked very high is having problems.

Looks like I will be spending my summer working at a gym again. Oh well, I always wanted to open a gym, maybe I can get more experience...

Its a similar situation in the aviation field right now. There are always cycles and you just have to ride them out and be patient. A good education is never a waste.

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Ali Al-Chalabi

2001 CLK55
1999 Dodge Ram 2500 Cummins Diesel
2002 Harley-Davidson Fatboy
Merlin Extralight w/ Campy Record

Law firms, in the age of computers, Westlaw/Lexis, don't need clerks as much as they once did. My advice would be to do some volunteer work, perhaps at a law clinic, to build the resume with actual work, not just sheppardizing memos. If nothing else, get to your local civil or crim court in the mornings and watch some motions practice to get a feel for the process and decorum.

Don't get frustrated. Well, get frustrated if it motivates you but don't let it deter you. I'm about to graduate in two months, and have had a great run as a student/clerk, but the prospects are slim no matter what.

I clerked my first summer at the MO Attorney General's Office and got some great experience and it was paid, and also bartended. I stayed at the AG's office until after my second summer, working through the school year as well as bartending. I am not in the top of my class or on law review obviously.

After my second summer at the AG's office, I left after a miserable experience due to some political/policy changes in the office. I started working, paid again, for a solo practioner out of my house and for a small PI/workers comp firm as well, and bartending.

Here's the deal according to Orkrist. With the exception of the AG's office, every job I got came through bartending. I tend bar in a restaraunt with a heavy attorney/judge population, so it helped with networking. I've also intro'd several clients to the firm I work for from baretending, so I have a referral fee "nest-egg" hopefully waiting for me when I graduate.

The legal profession, especially if you're considering trial or appellate work, is a lot like Hollywood. Its show business. I don't think grades matter too much, but you have to pass the bar and have some solid skills, maybe a form file of your own. Once you get out, waiting tables or bartending is a great way to start. I know it sounds silly, and you may think its beneath you, but if you're at the right place it can be a great experience. I know bartenders that make over 100k/YR. When I work full time over the summers, I make more than my law review friends at the big firms who write memos and never see daylight, a client, do a deposition or draft a motion.

I tend to think of looking for work or clients is kind of like shopping for a script, and you're the actor, and you want to find a producer to pay for the trial, e.g. a firm. The idea of going to law school and getting out and having the world handed to you on a plate are over. Its not a club anymore, either. You really have to kill what you eat, no matter what kind of practice you want. There aren't any more easy slam rear-end soft tissue car wreck cases either, insurance companies are fighting trial lawyers in legislatures and making them work more for every penny in lawsuits, making many cases less cost effective. That means less business for plaintiffs AND defense firms, who aren't sending out as many extravagently inflated bills anymore either because how many big firm lawyers does it take to screw in a light bulb?

My plans after graduation? I've applied at some places but don't expect to be hired. I will most likely be bartending to live, and start developing a practice. A ticket here, a DUI there, maybe sign up a workers comp case once I can afford to front discovery, and go from there. But the key is experience, even if you have to volunteer. Places like Legal Aid and the PDs office are litigation intensive. They don't write memos on water law or draft contracts. They write motions, prepare appellate briefs, visit with clients, often in prison, and work like mad. They always need help and its a great way to get your feet wet. I also keep a copy of everything I draft or file for myself in case I need some forms. And if you ever need a form you don't have and a buddy doesn't have it, look up a similar case in your circuit and get a copy of the file for a few bucks. There's your forms.

Also, check out any state regs that allow you to practice as a student. In MO its called Rule 13. If your 1/2 done with school credits and you have a supervisor, you can practice in certain circumstances. I've mediated workers comp claims, performed depositions completely by myself and maintained my own caseload while I worked for the state. I even recovered 120K from insurance companies while making $10/hr! OK, enough of my resume. If you can volunteer at the PDs office, or a prosecutors office, and get certified they should put you to work right away. Then you'll have real trial experience right out of school. I know a woman who had 9 jury trials before she even graduated! 9! Many lawyers don't have that many in a lifetime!

Take your time, find something you like and don't be scared by being an "unemployed attorney". You're surviving law school, so you're probably capable of doing just about anything.

Sorry to blab so much. Just like hearing from a fellow lawyer larvae.

Somebody obviously gets paid by the word . . . or my favorite line for a long winded witness . . . "excuse me, but is that the long way of saying "yes"?"

My brother graduated from law school with pretty good grades (this would have been about 1975 or so). He had a hell of a time getting any work at first. He worked for a real estate outfit for a while. He went into a partnership deal with a couple other new lawyers for a while. He worked for a General Motors / UAW Legal Services deal for a while (That gig was pretty good but it only lasted a couple years). Basically, he and his family were as poor as church mice for quite a few years. It has only been in the last 6 or 8 years or so that he opened his own practice and became well established. Even at that, I bet I make more money than he does. Bottom line is, there are just too many lawyers. It's a tough way to make a living, especially when you are just starting out, but if you hang in there a do the best you can, and hopefully get a few good breaks along the way, things will eventually work out.

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Palangi

2004 C240 Wagon 203.261 Baby Benz
2008 ML320 CDI Highway Cruiser
2006 Toyota Prius, Saving the Planet @ 48 mpg
2000 F-150, Destroying the Planet @ 20 mpg



TRUMP .......... WHITEHOUSE
HILLARY .........JAILHOUSE
BERNIE .......... NUTHOUSE
0BAMA .......... OUTHOUSE

Its not unethical in MO, actually. The rule states than non-attorneys may not recieve a referal fee. A non-attorney who becomes an attorney after referring a case, and has worked on the case throughout, gets the referal. Often, firms will give bonuses to the student while they are in school, like cruises, etc. I hate cruises. Also, the firm can hold the referral fee in trust for the student until they pass the bar. This is what is normally done in MO. Other attorneys, frankly, violate the rule flat out, and provide fees to all kinds of people. These case won't settle until I'm out of school already anyway.

Yeah, but, last I heard, the prediction was that the aviation field was going to start cyclying up right about this time...and then 9-11 hit. Any thoughts on how that's going to impact the aviation field over the long term? I ask 'cause I'm an aspiring pilot (even though I'm majoring in history...)

Only thing that lawyers have going for them is strict adherence to codes of ethics. Like physicians and engineers. If codes are winked at, public faith is eroded by that amount. This is why the rumors of unethical behavior among all three professions are probably more prevalent than actual violations. We like to think we can trust them and tar everybody with the failure of a few.

B

Alright, I'm officially changing my name to HUSTLER. I think it may already be taken, so I'll go with HUCKSTER.

Narwhal-I'll look the rule up when I get home. All I can say is that around here (MO), it isn't uncommon for firms to hold a ref. fee (characterized as a signing bonus, a cruise or some other such thing) for a former-clerk-became-an-attorney in trust pending passage of the bar. These arrangements are never reduced to writing as "fees" necessarily. For the record I haven't received anything for any client I've referred anywhere. I was also admittedly ona bit of a rant in my message above, if it wasn't apparent anyway.

I remember going over the rule in class, but we spent most of our time on conflicts, withdrawl, malpractice, etc. I'll look it up and post a response following.

Oh yeah. DTM FAN is definitely dropping out now!

Narwhal: You better not be on my case! My Character & Fitness application was already 70 pages long! (I don't have a criminal history, but I have a lead foot and I've had 20 jobs in the last ten yrs!) I don't need any more heat from these people.

I'm a sophomore in college and I intend to go to law school when I graduate. I intend to graduate as an English major, I was wondering if anyone had any advice on what classes to take to prepare for law school.

Thank you.

Your biggest hurdles to admission to a law school will be the competition for each seat available. Good undergraduate grades are important as well as a good LSAT score (more about that later) and attributes that distinguish you from all the other shyster-wannabes. Like regular college admissions, law schools will also examine your extra-curricular participation in "good works" like volunteerism, community involvement, interest in a particular segement of the law, etc.

The LSAT, like the GMAT, SAT, MCAT, etc., is the uniform multiple choice exam given to provide law schools with an apples to apples comparison of candidates. To quote the literature: The LSAT is a half-day standardized test designed to measure some of the skills considered essential for success in law school: the ability to read and comprehend complex texts with accuracy and insight; organize and manage information and draw reasonable inferences from it; think critically; and analyze and evaluate the reasoning and arguments of others.

Therefore, plan your curriculum accordingly.

narwhal; What area of law do you practice? I also would like to be an attorney some day. I just started my senior year today in high school. I'd like to get involved in corporate/business law. I always found businesses interesting and have always had an interest in law. I don;t claim to know a lot about the field, but I am very willing to learn. Would you consider the LSAT more difficult than maybe the SAT? Is it of similar materials? Obviously it will be more advanced, but is it administered the same way? I am both excited yet nervous; but i'm sure things will work out.
How did you find a clientelle (sp?) to support a law firm 2 years out of law school? Could you please explain a little about starting your own firm vs. joinging an existing firm? Please speak freely and you may e-mail or PM me if you wish.
Thanks,
David

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2000 Honda Accord V6 137k miles

1972 300SEL 4.5 98k miles

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If my memory serves me correctly, studies have shown that philosophy and political science majors do best on the LSAT's.
Definitely take an introduction to Logic course. I've had lots of students preparing for the LSAT's in my logic classes.

By the way, my sister-in-law has been a lawyer for about 10 yrs. She's an associate at a large firm in Knoxville. As far as I am concerned, her professional life has little to commend it. She works incredibly long hours (I'm guessing avg of 10 hrs a day 6 days a week) with very little vacation, all the while having to kiss the ass of arrogant partners.

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1977 300d 70k--sold 08
1985 300TD 185k+
1984 307d 126k--sold 8/03
1985 409d 65k--sold 06
1984 300SD 315k--daughter's car
1979 300SD 122k--sold 2/11
1999 Fuso FG Expedition Camper
1993 GMC Sierra 6.5 TD 4x4
1982 Bluebird Wanderlodge CAT 3208--Sold 2/13