Hi Everyone,

I am considering a powerchip upgrade on my diesel and I want to know if the dealer will be able to find out about it by doing diagnostic during service. Powerchip claims that the upgrade will be invisible to the diagnistic tool, and they will never know about the upgrade. However, I've seen a DINAN modified BMW M5 and the dealer somehow found out about it. The car was Flaged in the service computer as been modified. My question is for the guys who have this upgrade. Any issues with the dealer? (That's in case your car is still under warranty).

Regards,
Mitch

Hello apinti,

At risk of providing a non-answer, "it depends". Before this long message continues, I need to clearly state I am NOT a lawyer! :-)

There are two risks associated with taking a vehicle with a modified ECU to the dealership for warranty work:

1) The dealership will ultimately blame the modified part (read below), and
2) The technician will overwrite your modified ECU with the latest factory code and/or attempt to overwrite and fail.

In the States, the Moss-Magnuson Warranty Act forbids
denial of warranty work solely based on modifications made to the vehicle. To deny an owner the right to claim warranty coverage, a dealership must comprehensively prove that the modified part either directly or indirectly contributed to the failure of parts being replaced.

This results in a loophole for dealerships who do not want to deal with modified vehicles. They may first attempt to scare uninformed consumers by claiming the modified ECU caused a premature failure (often works). If that does not work, the consumer can request a full investigation with documents showing /how/ the modified part contributed to the failure. At this point, the dealership may cave and agree to cover the work.

Most dealerships are reasonable if the situation is reasonable. If you try to claim warranty coverage after installing an aftermarket ECU, lowered suspension, aftermarket transmission, rebuilt engine, etc. you will definately run into static.

The second issue is much more common, although modern (OBD2) aftermarket systems have code protection to prevent overwriting, reverse engineering, etc. A bit more technical -- the flash memory is segmented into areas for the modified code and factory code, select which is active with a switch. Some of the more sophisticated units actually modify the handshake algorithm for the flash update, I hear.

Long story short -- it is a risk, you may be better off placing an "anonymous" phone call to the service department before even considering an aftermarket brainbox.

Good luck,
-DM

__________________
1995 E420 SE black/black
2004 Volvo V70R AWD

Thanks for your input Danger Mouse. I guess I'll be better off just to live the car the way she comes. My question is" Can the dealer tell if the ECU has been messed with?" Powerchip claims that their work is competly invisible to the dealer diagnostic equipment. Besides, I wish I could find someone wit a new CDI who's got this modification. Gee, I don't even know if there is anyone out there yet.

Probably the best advice will come from a Mercedes technician who is willing to step forward. I conducted a bit of research on the Powerchip product using all the usual search engines and their corporate site. Even went through the order process up to the point where credit card numbers are required.

Nowhere could I find details on how their chip is made "electronically and physically invisible" to the dealership's diagnostic tools. For comparison, the respected Audi tuner APR has a thorough explanation of how the stock programs can be selected prior to going to the dealership, and how their flash "write-block" feature works.

Here's some additional information that generally pertains to OBD2 systems, not Mercedes-specific: As you probably know, modern vehicles contain not just one computer that controls electronic fuel injection. My guess (again, not personally a technician) is that your CDI contains at least 12 modules that control everything from the ABS and transmission to airbags and body electronics. The module you are replacing with the Powerchip is generically referred to as the electronic control unit or "ECU".

Modern vehicles usually contain vehicle identifiers like the VIN and chassis # embedded into the non-volatile section of the ECU memory. If you have ever purchased a factory replacement unit, the dealership often has to "program" it with your VIN, security codes, etc. before even trying to turn the ignition.

My concern with the Powerchip - simply because they do not request the VIN or discuss it on the corporate site - is that they are using a "dummy VIN" in their units. If that is true, any technician trying to diagnose your vehicle will notice an error condition on their Star system and probably call over the service manager. Especially true for a new car still under warranty!

Anyone out there know the real answer? :-)
-DM

__________________
1995 E420 SE black/black
2004 Volvo V70R AWD

Today's cars are pretty much rolling computer networks - I was reading the startech site last week and I was dismayed to find out the W210 headlights are computer controlled. The headlight switch sends a signal over the databus and a seperate module is responsible for turning on the lights.

I write software for a living and todays cars must have some pretty complex software integration issues - I'd bet manufacturers spend lot of time and money testing software, there is no way in the world I'd risk installing new software into the mix that was not tested by Mercedes and I would not expect any dealership to troubleshoot engine/powertrain issues if the car was being controlled by third party software.

And of course we are totally sidestepping the issue of emissions - if the new chip is adding fuel (and it most likely is) I'm not sure your car would meet emissions testing, if your state has it.

Hi again,

Powerchip does not replace the chip in the ECU. There is actualy an explaination of what they are doing on their corporate website. You are supposed to send them your ECU overnight,they remove the chip of the ECU, upload their modification and then they install the chip back on the ECU. You get the ECU back overnight and all you have to do is to plugg it back on the car.
As far as emission goes.... I have no idea. This will be my first diesel and I dont have a clue about it, if there is one in VA.

They are installing new software (or at a minimum new data maps) into ONE of the twelve computers that will be managing virtually every facet of operation in your new car. You can't even turn on the headlights in a modern MB without involving a computer and a computer network. I have no idea how well the third party company engineers their software but if it's not virtually perfect there will be side effects. Of course there are lots of electronic glitches in a modern MB that I suspect are software related so who knows maybe the new software will be an improvement - who knows?

At any rate I would be interested in knowing what the company will do if you install the software mods and MB detects the modified software and voids your powertrain warranty - will "powerchip" step up and provide coverage?

If they are certain the software mods are undetectable they should be willing to back their claims with $$$. I'm betting they will not provide this level of assurance and I'd pass on their chips until after your warranty expires.

I've driven a 320CDI and believe me you are not going to need any power upgrades for this one - it absolutely flies as is.

Thanks Tim,

I guess you are right. The best thing is to wait until after the warranty expires. Maybe more people will get the " upgrade" and there will be more info out there.