New member Mosselman twin turbo - Page 2 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

Devonic · #16 11-16-2007, 09:10 PM

please let me know if anyone finds compatible cams and cranks for the M103 (2.6)

t walgamuth · #17 11-17-2007, 06:35 AM

I would think you could find a 3.5 crank around in an engine that has the bent rod problem.

Tom W

RBYCC · #18 12-06-2007, 01:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by duxthe1

The T-25 also came on the NG Saab 900, which I have as a daily driver. I can push 20 PSI with it on my 2 liter all day long. Compared to the KKK turbos that came with the moselman kit they're huge. Though by conventional turbo standards they are a pretty petite package, which is why I'm leaning towards using them. There isn't a lot of space to fit 2 turbos with inlet, outlet, and oil pressure lines on a 4-matic car. With the T-25s I can add cooling lines to the center sections as well. Gotta admit I'm a big fan of water cooled turbos which the KKKs are not. Another advantage I see to using the T-25 is the availability of good used ones. Everybody with a Saab or Mitsu is looking to pull theirs off in favor of something bigger. Having a pair of them lets each one feed 1.5 liters instead of 2 liters giving a better high end threshold than stock applications on 4 cylinder engines.
I havn't settled on specific boost numbers. The short term goal is to build the shortblock to handle anything I throw at it. When I get it back in the car I'm gonna keep the modified CIS injection at first. I'll limit boost to what the CIS can safely supply fuel for. Meanwhile I'll be working on a programmable speed density EFI system to support a lot more power. Which once complete I can swap onto the car and raise the boost accordingly. From there it's a matter of limiting boost to just below detonation or what the drivetrain will take.
I figure I'll keep the moselman I/C for the first incarnation and put a fan on it. I have several PIC12F675 microcontrollers. I'd like to use one to build a fan controller for the I/C. That would be easy enough to transfer to a frontmount I/C when I do get one in. Right now though the budget is going to be spent on the shortblock. I'm gonna try to get it out and on a stand early next week. That way I can get a firm asessment of what machine work is needed to get this project underway.

I use twin Garrett T2's on my M103-12V TurboTechnics install.
Fixed boost at 7PSI produces 320HP/350LBFT torque.
0-60 times 5.4 in 80-90 Degree F ambient and 5.1 in ambient below 50 degree F.
Intercooler is mounted on the passenger side chassis rail with a fiberglass shroud that creates a plenum that draws air in from the bumper area.

I've got over forty years experience with some very fast full race cars.

Wanting extreme horsepower from a M103/M104 creates a condition of "diminishing returns"
If you can't put the power to the ground in a controlled manner, then you have wasted power.

T2 Garrett Turbochargers

The T2 turbocharger is designed for today's small displacement engines. The T2 is engineered to provide an economic performance boost for diesel and gasoline engines in passenger cars, light duty trucks and marine application.
The T2 will effectively cover most engine ratings from 100 to 150 bhp, in gasoline/petrol applications.
Characteristics include:

Bearings are in capsulated in a full perimeter water cooled housing to provide for maximum reliability in high temperature applications.
Watercooled bearings and an integral wastegate.
Optional high- or low-flow compressor stage
A low inertia turbine wheel
Weight 4.2 Kg
Compressor Diameter 48 mm
Turbine Diameter 47 mm
Bearing Span 31.9 mm
Moment of Inertia 1.6*10-5 Kg/m²
Oil Flow 1.2 l/min SAE 30 - 90ºC - 2.75 Bar

MOSSELMAN INSTALL

TURBOTECHNICS INSTALL

Mosselman and TurboTechnics approached the CIS-E differently.
Willi Mosselman provided a proprietary adjustable piggy back fuel controller that used the signal to the EHA.

TT used a non adjustable control piggy back control to fire two additional injectors mounted in between the air valve assembly and the throttle body.
Problem was that it retarded the timing to prevent detonation due to the inability to enrich enough under boost.

I replaced all the TT electronics with a computer programmed unit from Split Second which allowed a timing advance by removing the R16 resistor and maintains 12.5:1 AFR under boost.

Ed A.

G300 · #19 12-10-2007, 12:54 PM

What does a M103 Mosselman kit cost?

RBYCC · #20 12-11-2007, 09:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by G300

What does a M103 Mosselman kit cost?

No longer made for the M103/M104.
Last kits were around $9000.00 !!!

A few TurboTechnics kits may still be available, they are circa 1991-1992 and were being sold by a UK Merc dealer "Hughes of Beaconsfield"

They had a blow out sale to clear inventory.
My M103-12V kit which included a full dual 2" SS exhaust cost $2600.00 delivered to my door.

In the early nineties Hughes installed the kits on new delivery W124's for around 6000-7000 pounds sterling !

ED A.

G300 · #21 12-12-2007, 07:11 AM

Thanks for the info. I have contacted Hughes to see if they have any more kits.

How many hours for install by a professional would you guess?

RBYCC · #22 12-12-2007, 08:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by G300

Thanks for the info. I have contacted Hughes to see if they have any more kits.

How many hours for install by a professional would you guess?

I had a professional install done by one of the few "experts" on turbo charging M103/M104 engines.

His experience goes back to the early nineties with many Mosselman installs.

He originally estimated 40 -50 hours based on Mosselman.

The TurboTechnics kit had its problems with mismatched parts and a less then adequate piggy back fuel enrichment control.

Took time and research on both my part and his to sort out.

Ended up around 110 hours which included the TT install, full exhaust, engine mount, springs, shocks, sway bars.

Knowing the necessary changes to install would probably cut 20-30 hours off the install.

If you get a kit let me know, can probably save you some time and money.

Get the install correct and you have an extremely fast W124...
I'm running low 5 second 0-60 times with a M103-12V which has become a real "torque monster " !!!

Ed A.

nick.ged · #23 09-11-2009, 06:57 PM

the 350 td crank in a standard 103 makes 3.4 liter, that is the crank amg used for there 3.4 convertions, same crank with rebore is what made 3.6 amg and 3.6 brabus 103s. good find man they are nearly a rare as hens teeth!