My Doctor's Wives Group and their Mercedes'

[blackmercedes]

A friend of mine is a surgeon, and he and his wife have a daughter about the same age as mine. The Mom stays home, and we have playdates once in a while. Once every other week or so, we meet at the McDonald's with the biggest durn play-place I could imagine, and we chat while the kids wear themselves out.

There are five Moms (all Doctor's wives) and me that meet.

We started this about a year ago. One funny thing in the McD's parking lot is the cars. Each of the five had ML's, and I parked my "lowly" C230 next. Six Mercedes' all in a row.

Well, things have changed. These are not happy campers when it comes to Mercedes. Now, I'm the only one that still drives up with a Star on the car.

Three of the ML's have been replaced with Acura MDX's, and one with an RX300. Sydney, my friend's wife, has replaced her ML430 with a Honda Accord, the new model V-6.

We were talking about this today. They are all disappointed with Mercedes, particularly the car's build quality and dealer's ability to solve problems. Then I learn about hubby's cars:

One 2000 S500 has been "disposed of" in favour of an LS430.
One 2001 C320 has been "disposed of" in favour of a G35.

Youch! Aren't these families the prime MB target demographic? Late 30's/early 40's, top 1% of income levels, safety conscious, image conscious, and somewhat brand loyal? Like to have a reasonably new car, meaning a good supply of quality trades?

One Mom tells me about their buying the LS430. Her husband was having untold number of problems with his S500, and she even more with her ML320. They picked up Consumer Reports, and did lots of online research. They found ALL the German brands right near the bottom with intial quality, three year reliablity and five year reliability. They drove on down to the Lexus dealer and bought an LS430 and RX300.

I know that MB's sales are still steaming along, but I wonder how much of this is happening? It'll be a frosty day before any of these families returns to an MB dealer's floor.

[MTI]

The build quality of the Alabama made ML's are legendarliy bad, that's no secret. Here's a snippet of the review on Edmunds.com:


Mercedes-Benz has the American luxury SUV all figured out. Start with a roomy, comfortable, medium-sized box and add a powerful V8, car-like driving dynamics and the latest techno-gadgetry. Then, build it in Alabama out of the cheapest parts you can source that will still meet minimum standards for quality, and plaster a sticker price in the window that nobody can refuse. Fuhgeddabout endowing it with prowess off the pavement, because owners aren't going to do anything seriously strenuous in the dirt, but make sure it's got low-range gearing anyway, so those pesky journalists won't call it a poseur-mobile like that oddity from BMW. Presto! Instant sales success!

Sarcastic, backhanded commentary aside, the ML is a great truck for people who don't really want a truck, but want others to perceive the image associated with a truck that wears its three-pointed star like a badge of honor. That's why Carolyn Burnham, the coming-unglued working wife in American Beauty, drove one, isn't it? Four primary complaints surfaced during our testing, one of which has nothing to do with the majority of consumers who buy luxo-utes: lousy off-road capability, poor cabin construction, lame-duck styling and wonky ergonomics associated with the navigation and audio system.

We all know about the problems with ML, but I feel the complete experience with MB is one of the best in the business. My cars has been to the dealership for minor problems. I don't feel I would go from MB to a Honda, maybe BMW or Lexus.

[dmorrison]

Mercedes has got to do something about their quality control or lack of it. I have been a loyal Mercedes owner for 23 years. But I think I have bought my last one. I will keep the 82 300TD and 88 560SL. But the experience I have had with the dealers with my 99 E300 TurboDiesel has been terrible. They can't seem to fix anything correctly. I have recently changed dealers and it has improved but it still is not as good as it should be.
Mercedes is now 13th on the J D Powers initial quality survey. TIED WITH CHEVEROLET. The majority of the fault is with the M class.
Will those friends ever go back to Mercedes. I'll bet you $1000, no. Not with the satisfaction they will have with the Lexus and Acura. I leased a 88 Acura Legend and the 5 years I had the lease It was in the shop ONCE. Just once. We had a tranny cooling line burst, It had a cut in it. When I asked about the reliability of the hose they in formed me that my hose was the only one they had ever replace in the 3 years the dealer had been open.
I'm afraid to say that I am like your freinds. I will buy a new car in the future, but it will be a Honda or Toyota product. Actually under the Consumers Reports the Toyota Avalon is THE most reliable car.
I feel that Schremp has done a real disservice to Mercedes. The purchase of Chrysler was financially to much for the corporation and it has destroyed Quality throughout DaimlerChrysler. I hope that they can return to a high quality, relaible product.
Until then I will keep the 300TD and 560SL running as long as I can
Again it is a shame that the quality has suffered, But the additional problem is the quality and reliability of the dealers service.

My 2 cents

Dave

[Diesel-Lover]

Just went through the automotive purchase process. Evaluated the MB products including the ML along with other SUVs wanted the get the 3 rows. The kids loved the gadgets in the S430 but the car did not fit our needs. The price/utility for the new MB products is no where near some of the competition. The Honda was a clear winner in our evaluation process.

We recently (less than a month now) picked up a Pilot EX-L. It is a real nice vehicle. Generally speaking enough technology etc to make winter a non-issue as far as driving conditions are concerned. The fit and finish is nice, the ride is good, road noise levels are very low and the price is a steal compared to the other similarly equipped vehicles. It does lack a bunch of toys like memory seats, no heated seat option though I have found an after market product for this etc. It does have the essential elements for a basic creature comforts. I was told the A/C is rated at 18000 btus or some thing crazy like that!

When I was there we also saw an Element, liked it so much it followed the Pilot home as a pure Utility Vehicle. Similar to the CRV in technology but the room and features are way better than any other vehicle on the market. The Element is made in the US, fit and finish is good, I dunno how the plastic fenders are going to do, will have to wait and see.

[blackmercedes]

My wife sold her 1998 E300 turbodiesel because of horrendous reliability issues. Ont he other hand, my 1998 C230 has been incredibly reliable. Which one is the trend?

I swung by the bookstore, and picked up the latest CR. It sure beats up on the MB products. The new BMW 3 gets the slam, as do most VW and Audi products. No playing favourites here. Just five years ago, they highly recommended the C-Class, and the 3-series. No longer.

The least reliable vehicle in any segment at any price is the Jaguar X-type. The most reliable, any price, was the Toyota Echo. Toyota has slipped a little, with the Camry only earning an "average" ranking. The W202 C-Class is doing well as a used car, which might explain my good experience.

[Diesel-Lover]

If I did not have the need for a utility veh, I may have gone in for a prius. I love it. But the need for a utility vehicle drove us to the element. A veritable swiss knife type vehicle!

I love to rent the alternate fuel vehs in CA, don't have to fill em up before the drop and dash to catch the flight! Their all elec Rav is also pretty cool and fast, hardly makes noise, the range is only 110 miles or so.

Some one has to invent a viable compressor less ac, that would really make the hybrids go far.

The MDX is one nice machine, we decided it would attract more door dings in the shopping center than a honda would! Man I miss the student days and park anywhere jalopies!

Congratulations on the dependable C280, my E has been very good so far knock on wood etc. I like the M3 and the porsche cabrios for the performance aspects but alas I have mellowed too much to fully leverage the performance parameters. I don't want to be the oleman futzing down the road in a high perf car!

[mpnye]

MB needs to look in the REAR VIEW MIRROR . . .

[yal]

Originally posted by mpnye
MB needs to look in the REAR VIEW MIRROR . . .

You mean through the dust at the pack in front of them.


Maybe we should just resign are selfs to the fact that buying a german car these days is a hit or miss.

[mpnye]

Here's what I meant . . .

In the OLD days, German engineers were of the generation 'under the hammer' to show the rest of the world that "The German Mind is Superior" and that "If it ain't GERMAN . . . it's CRAP ! ! !" and those who didn't go along with the plan, got 30 days in the kuhler to re-think his future . . .

UNFORTUNATELY, NOW the SUITS in the MARKETING dept. are running things and BELLS & WHISTLES are the MAIN order of business. NOW, their MAIN OBJECTIVE is, "How can we make it more like a Lexus"

But SERIOUSLY . . . look who their TARGET MARKET is . . . it's the kid puttin' the sprinkles on your cone, down at the Tasteefreez. For about the same money as a Honda, he can get into a C Coupe.

Being in the MB business for almost 30 years, I'm seeing MB transforming into Chrysler, a company who hasn't built a REAL car, other than the Viper since the early 70's. They built "One hell of a Drivetrain", with ho-hum body and interiors that fell apart with just a touch . . .

When MB started running those STUPID "Things aren't always as they seem" commercials with the dufuss running down a crash test course into a block wall with a helmet on; that was the BEGINNING of the END . . .

The WARTIME INCENTIVE PLAN of 'Succeed or be SHOT' motivated engineers and designers to prove their worth, by being the BEST or NOT BEING AT ALL ! ! !

The CAR business has CHANGED DRASTICALLY in the last 25 years. What I meant was that MB needs to take a look back on their days on top to motivate them back to the TOP . . .

[Ashman]

You want to know the problems with these surveys? They are nto based on much experience with the vehicle.

My dad has had his 2003 sl500 for less than 3 months, has driven it less than 1500 miles, and has been sent several survey's on his quality and experience with the car.

How can they get any kind of accurate inforation based on a short period of owning the car. Show me surveys taken at the end of a lease, and then I will see what the results are. Until I see survey's based on experiences after a few years with a car, I take them with a grain of salt.

Mercedes may be having some quality problems, but I sure as hell don't see many old toyota's and such on the roads anymore, most of them are newer cars. I rarely see older cars on the roads, except I see many older mb's still on the roads. Moreso than any other brand.

Porsche, ferrari, lamborghini, etc etc, are nto the most reliable cars, but then again, they are sports cars, and were designed as such.

you want reliability, buy an econobox, you want style, comfort, luxury, long term use, enjoyable driving experience day in and day out, you can only look to a few select manufacturer's, aned to me mercedes is on the top.

No other car I have ever driven, has made me feel the way I do. Mercedes is top dog to me, no matter how you look at it. Safe, reliable, drives great, feels great, looks great, and overall, always puts a smile on my face. No other car has ever done that to me for extended periods.

My 300ce put a smile on my face the first time I dorve it, and even to this day, I enjoy every second with my car.

With any manufacturer, some cars will be what I call lemons. Its just the nature of the manufacturing process that not all of the same items come out equally.

Working int he computer business, I have had doa components from most manufacturers, I have had things fail in short times, and overall, I have not seen this affect business for any of the manufacturers. I have bought many Dell systems, most came working perfectly, but I have had screens that were faulty, hard drives fail, floppy drives fail, you name it. It is the nature of manufacturing that causes this, minor imperfections that are undetectable can make things fail, and all manufacturers of computer compnents have this. I had a client, who had to rpelace the same u.s. robotics modem several times in one year. and U.S. robotics att he time was supposed to be the most reliable modem company on the market.

IT is all relevant.

I have read stories of people having problems with various cars from all manufacturers.

It just seems like the surveys that poll people on these things, are not done right, because if they were, I bet the picture would be completely different.

I never trust the surveys, I trust the owners who have had the cars for a long time, because they are the ones who will know if a car is good or not.

Range Rover's are notoriously unreliable, my brothers experience is one of that. He has spent more than double what his car is worth on repairs in 3 years. I have spent very little on my car in 2.5 years, and I expect to spend very little on it int he next 2.5 years.

what kind of numbers are these surveys based on, how many owners? 100? 200? 300? who knows, their results could be based on 10 responses or ten thousand responses, that still doesn't show me a good enough ratio to believe the surveys are nothing but BS. show me surveys based on every single owner's experience, and not just a fraction of the amount of cars on the roads.

Alon

[mpnye]

My COMMENTS are based on FACE to FACE encounters with CUSTOMER, ENGINEERS who were my CUSTOMERS and EX-CUSTOMERS who have grown disillusioned with MB after owning them for over 30 years.

The reason Lexus has become so successful is that they bought countless NEW and USED MB's over the years, which they DROVE, TESTED, BROKE and DISSECTED to find out what they needed to do to build a SUPER-CAR to DE-THROWN MB from their position of TOP DOG ! ! !

ACTUALLY . . . MB has LOWERED their standard to COMPETE with other car lines of LESSER PRICE, which DEFEATS the PURPOSE of OWNING an MERCEDES-BENZ . . . The MARKETING MACHINE at work again . . . after all . . . WHY MAYBACH ? ? ?

[suginami]

Originally posted by mpnye
My COMMENTS are based on FACE to FACE encounters with CUSTOMER, ENGINEERS who were my CUSTOMERS and EX-CUSTOMERS who have grown disillusioned with MB after owning them for over 30 years.

The reason Lexus has become so successful is that they bought countless NEW and USED MB's over the years, which they DROVE, TESTED, BROKE and DISSECTED to find out what they needed to do to build a SUPER-CAR to DE-THROWN MB from their position of TOP DOG ! ! !

ACTUALLY . . . MB has LOWERED their standard to COMPETE with other car lines of LESSER PRICE, which DEFEATS the PURPOSE of OWNING an MERCEDES-BENZ . . . The MARKETING MACHINE at work again . . . after all . . . WHY MAYBACH ? ? ?

Amen, brother. You took the words right out of my mouth.

[glenmore]

Hard to gauge the overall popularity of MBs but here in SoCal they are all over the place. Spend any time in Beverly Hills and you'd think you were on another planet.

Like Alon, I love everything about my car, a 1991 300CE. The style, the ride, the drive. First car where I look forward every morning to my drive to work.

This trend of declining competitiveness for MB bodes ill for the rest of us with older MBs. If the company ends up beating the bushes for more profit, it won't be long before this translates into higher parts prices for the older cars.

Amazing to see what Lexus accomplished in so short a time from a dead start.

[mpnye]

Originally posted by glenmore
If the company ends up beating the bushes for more profit, it won't be long before this translates into higher parts prices for the older cars.

Prices . . . what about AVAILABILITY ? ? ?

Originally posted by glenmore
Amazing to see what Lexus accomplished in so short a time from a dead start.

Dead Start ? ? ? They spent YEARS ! ! !