Ball Joint Nightmare - chapter 2 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

tgingrich · #1 12-12-2006, 09:46 AM

Well I am having the same problem on the drivers side as I did on the passengers, only worse. The tapered ball joint shaft will not come out of the lower control arm. I even broke the giant autozone type c clamp joint puller - cracked right through. I have pounded on the shaft with a sledge hammer for hours, carving 1/4" deep impression in my concrete garage floor with the jack stand supporting the lower control arm while I beat on it. I was thinking about packing the joint/arm in Dry Ice to try and shrink the joint enough to free it up - Do you think the dry ice would weaken the control arm and cause issues later on down the road?

Jkid · #2 12-12-2006, 10:17 AM

I'm not sure what you tried in Chapter 1, but it sounds like you need to put some heat on it. Have you tried this? Are you going to end up replacing the joints. I seriously doubt that dry ice will hurt anything though. Or really do anything for that matter.

tgingrich · #3 12-12-2006, 10:21 AM

I have heated the arm with a propane torch, then hit the shaft with liquid wrench trying to flash cool it. Like the other side, I cut through the ball of the joint with a sawzall to get the spindle off and make room. All I have to do is get the tapered portion of the joint out of the lower control arm. Yeah, thats all. Right.

tangofox007 · #4 12-12-2006, 10:25 AM

In your previous thread (Chapter 1), you said that you broke the "recommended tool from NAPA." Which tool was that?

tgingrich · #5 12-12-2006, 10:50 AM

I sheared the pin in this one - I rigged it to work with another pin.

tgingrich · #6 12-12-2006, 10:52 AM

This one I cracked right though the bent arm

tangofox007 · #7 12-12-2006, 11:44 AM

Sometimes loading the stud down with a puller and just letting it sit is helpful. Also, striking the eye of the control arm with medium sized hammer (while the stud is heavily loaded) can also break things loose. The idea is not to beat the stud out of the control arm, but to send a "deforming" shock wave through the eye so that it lets go of the stud. Another variation is to strike the eye on opposite sides at the same with a pair of hammers. Strike the eye perpendicular to the stud. (The idea is to deliver a sharp, ringing blow; not necessarily a hard blow.) Repeated strikes are usually required. And consider the trajectory of parts and tools when things break loose!!!

I have had good luck with this tool, which carries a lifetime guarantee:
http://www.napaonline.com/MasterPages/NOLMaster.aspx?PageId=470&LineCode=SER&PartNumber=3916&Description=Ball+Joint+Separator

Jkid · #8 12-12-2006, 10:33 AM

Wow, sounds like an ordeal. Quickly off the top of my head and not seeing it, I would think that propane may not burn hot enough (you might try MAPP gas if your propane torch can use that). However, I think the proper way to heat it is too heat one side of the control arm right where the spindle is (I don't think you will overheat it with propane) and then immediately hit it with a very large hammer (this may be tough to do at weird angles to you could try using a long bar pivoted right near the joint to pop it off?) Don't spray it with liquid wrench though.

Rashakor · #9 12-12-2006, 10:44 PM

waa!!! I have the bedeviled ball joint sitting on my desk... You guys are scaring me...

estod · #10 12-12-2006, 11:11 PM

Why not take the part ... since it is out of the car ... to a machine shop & get them to press it out with a big press?

Are you sure you're pounding in the correct direction?

tangofox007 · #11 12-13-2006, 08:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by estod

Why not take the part ... since it is out of the car ... to a machine shop & get them to press it out with a big press?

Is the control arm off the car? Doesn't sound like it, given the mention of the control arm being supported by a jack stand.

seo · #12 12-13-2006, 09:07 AM

tangofox007

"Sometimes loading the stud down with a puller and just letting it sit is helpful. Also, striking the eye of the control arm with medium sized hammer (while the stud is heavily loaded) can also break things loose. The idea is not to beat the stud out of the control arm, but to send a "deforming" shock wave through the eye so that it lets go of the stud. Another variation is to strike the eye on opposite sides at the same with a pair of hammers. Strike the eye perpendicular to the stud. (The idea is to deliver a sharp, ringing blow; not necessarily a hard blow.) Repeated strikes are usually required."
In 36 years of fooling with cars I've never owned a stud puller, or tierod breaker, or whatever you call it. Instead I rely entirely on hammering the studs out pretty much exactly as described above. I just loosen the nut (don't take it all the way off, so that the part can't jump too far when it comes loose.) dolly-up the back of the knuckle with a sledge hammer, and hit the front with ringing blows with a good-sized hammer. How good sized? Depends on the size of the knuckle. On a car, maybe 20 oz. to 2 Lbs.
You know you have the dolly located right when it bounces off the part when you strike it the front of the part with your other hammer, and the hammer bounces back too.
The dolly has two objects: 1) it prevents the force of impact from travelling to the next joint, where it may do damage, and 2), much more important, it confines the force of the blow within the part. Think of a wave travelling across a swimming pool, bouncing off the far wall, and coming back to you. The dolly, held tight against the part, is the "far wall" that these waves of force bounce against.
I start with fairly light blows, slowly increasing force until the knuckle pops apart. The force and resonance literally stretches the knuckle for an instant, loosening the stud and allowing it to slip down.
I learned this approach from an old-fashioned blacksmith machinery repair guy. He showed me how on a good anvil, there's enough resonance so that the forging hammer literally bounces back to where you started the swing. The only muscular force that you exert (once you've got the knack) is accelerating the hammer back down again.
Aint physics grand?

kerry · #13 12-13-2006, 10:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by seo

Aint physics grand?

Yep. I'd put this procedure right up there with turning water into wine.
If you've done it once, you'll do it again just to see the magic at work.
What is the root of the 'dolly-up' phrase?

ConnClark · #14 12-13-2006, 11:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tgingrich

This one I cracked right though the bent arm

I had one of those Harbor Freight ball joint tools. Talk about crap. The cup didn't quiet fit and prevented the ball joint from coming out. It took bending the C clamp to realize this. My friend and I had to hold the spindle in a vice and pound it out with an old socket and a piece of wood. I cracked the screw putting the new ones in.

In my opinion these things aren't safe.

whunter · #15 12-13-2006, 11:59 AM

Here is how you apply force to the union, once the ball joint nut is off.

Hold one five pound sledge against the static side of the lower control arm.

Pound on the opposite side of the lower control arm, reverse hammer positions every ten strokes.

Every stroke needs to apply maximum possible force.

Please click on the attached picture to enlarge, it shows how and where to hit the lower control arm.