It is -25 F and my oil filter leaked at start attempt.

[sohj]

What does this mean?

New owner of a 1984 300 SDL. Had the block heater plugged in and what I think is a fuel line heater. Tried to start. First attempt sounded like almost, but then gave up after 2 min. of roOOW roOOW roOOW. Smoke or steam came off the air filter during attempt. When I turned off ignition, smoke/steam stopped but engine kept turning over for another 15-20 secs. When I looked back at the engine after that, noticed fresh oil leaking out from under oil filter housing cap and a drop of oil on snow under car. Now, won't start. No sound from engine except some creaking in the radiator area. I have this horrible feeling that stuff is alternating frozen/gelled and unfrozen in every hose in the car and if I try starting, lines will burst. (OK, so I'm freaking out a little. )

[sohj]

from (I think) the hose from the radiator, but I can only really see it dripping off the front end of the engine housing.

[engatwork]

I'm wondering if you had the proper anti freeze mix in there. Sounds like it froze to me.

[kerry]

Very hard to diagnose this at a distance. It probably wouldn't start because the battery was too cold and couldn't turn the engine over fast enough. Typical problem at that temperature.
Do idea on why the oil leaked. Have you tried tightening down the filter cover? Could be like the old shuttle o-rings that got hard at cold temperatures.
It does sound like you had ice in the system somewhere.

[dabenz]

sohj: trust your instincts, they're good. And I wouldn't start the engine until it's inside and thawed out, and slowly at that. Your coolant leak at a radiator hose are typical symtoms of freezing coolant (pressure builds up and the coolant goes somewhere), and you don't want to crack a block or head, or blow the head gasket. After the engine's thawed and the coolant's out you want to drop the oil and save a mid-stream sample to get checked for water. Or you can save all the oil, let it sit (inside) overnight, take a few ounces from the bottom (pour the pan out slowly), let that sit, then hold a lighter to the top surface. Sputtering is not good news.

Once you get things back together, with good anti-freeze and new oil filter seals, do the lighter test to the dip stick at least every other day for a while, before you start the engine. If the top of the oil on the dipstick looks creamy then you've got a water leak.

This week I've seen five cars with oil or water puddles, all dead on the side of the road. They've got expensive repairs - hopefully you won't.

[sohj]

What if there's no warm shop to get it into?

engatwork: I've Texaco 50-50 which I topped off the coolant with last week, however, this car was gotten in DC with NC reg. and I hadn't yet taken the time to drain the radiator and refill so I really have no clue what is in there.

kerry edwards: Yes, the battery was too cold. Since my first post, I realized that the electric cord I thought was a fuel line warmer (if I was thinking at all) was a battery warmer. I will never make that mistake again. (Sounds of sobbing in the background.) Will try tightening the filter cover...as soon as I change the filter and oil and gaskets.

dabenz: Lots of detail. Thanks. What is a good coolant in your books? And what do you think of the propylene glycol stuff (Sierra)? We use that in the pipes of our frozen soil testing apparatus in the lab at work. The oil isn't creamy on the dipstick; but, there isn't much of it left. Have added two quarts of Citgo 10W-40 as that is all that is available around here after noon on Saturday until Monday. What is a good oil? I have at least confirmed that the smoke came out of the back (windshield side) of the air filter area, not from the engine block.

Thanks guys for all the advice. This is a shameless ploy to get more.

Hilda is sitting on two inches of ice and one of packed snow in the drive of a farm in Newbury, VT. Not a ski town, not even a ski county. The garage (with a pit!) is not a useful option 'cause the the chimney was taken down and the stove scavenged for a cabin twenty years ago when the shed/garage/breezeway/post office (yes, this farm used to be the post office) was reroofed. I said then that someone would regret it, didn't know it would be me. Of couse, no one listened to me at the time, I was only a teenager.

Am considering taking bus back to NYC tomorrow, getting every part I could possibly need and returning next weekend and doing a 48 hour blitz of changing every fluid/filter/hose/clamp/gasket in the machine. Whaddya think? Temp is supposed to get warmer this week.

[kerry]

My approach to these kind of problems is to not do lots of things at once so that I can isolate the problem and get it fixed without introducing other factors into the mix that may themselves cause problems.
There are a couple of things that don't make sense to me. Why did the engine keep turning over once you turned the key off? No one has come up with a hypothesis to account for that yet. Could that smoke from the air filter area actually have been electrical smoke from a problem in the starter which is right below that location. That might account for why the engine kept turning over once the key was off. Does the engine turn over at all now when you turn the key? If nothing is happening at all, I'd look at the starter for the root of the problem.

If you can look(or looked) in the radiator and see(saw) liquid as opposed to ice crystals, I doubt if anything was frozen in the engine. The drip from the front end of the engine could be a leak out of the water pump weep holes. This would not be totally unexpected in very cold weather and may not be a real problem at all.

So, tell us if the engine is turning over at all at the moment, and we will re-think it through from there.

[sohj]

I actually got it started yesterday after jumping the battery after warming it up. I had managed to drain it during the start attempt. And it ran and I drove it a little against my better judgement because I had to get somewhere. BUT, the oil pressure gauge would stay hovering at "2" when idling and only go up to "3" when accelerating or at a stable speed up an incline, decelerating or driving on the flat, the needle would drop slowly. Before this weekend, that didn't happen. It would go up to 3 and stay there. This morning, the whole thing started again, even though I had plugged in both cords from the start and the air temp was fifteen degrees warmer than yesterday. (Woo hoo!) This time the battery died after the second attempt and I didn't have creaking in the radiator, but the coolant is still dripping (no faster, though). Where are the weep holes? Haven't jumped the battery yet.

I agree with you about fixing one thing at a time. My reason for thinking of the 'blitz' is that a) I don't know where to start if I want to be systematic and eliminate things and b) I have very limited free time and I really want to get it running again. I'm also working against the winter. I was hoping to postpone all of this kind of work until spring and then pretty much take the whole thing apart and examine every fitting. It wasn't perfectly maintained (it is from the estate of someone who died last spring with an altzheimer's like disease, and, although, he did have a good mechanic, I know he didn't take it in on the most regular schedule). Also, a lot of small fiddly things weren't ever fixed. The electronics (windows, seat adjuster, etc.) are sluggish and the sun roof doesn't work and it needs a new inside rear view mirror. (I've got a lot of his receipts, btw, but none are up here and I hadn't taken the time to read through them systematically and see if there were any red flags). I was hoping to count on the strength of the MB to get me through one winter before doing anything drastic.

[kerry]

If there is any question about the age of the battery, I would put a new one in. There is a huge draw on these batteries when cold starting. A group 49 battery is essential if that is not what is already in there.
I'd also look closely at the lines for the oil pressure gauge. They are manual gauges. (unless the 'S' is different) Are you sure it was the oil filter housing that was leaking and not the line to the pressure gauge. A leak in the gauge line might explain the symptoms you describe. If the pressure is dropping as you drive, you do not want to drive it until that problem is solved. It could result in very expensive damage. My gauge drops below 2 at idle but pegs at around 1000rpm and stays there unless decelerating and the engine has returned to idle.

[sohj]

is what is in the car now (and came with it). I think a new batt. wld. be a good idea. What is "a group 49 battery"? What other groups are there? What does the number mean?

[kerry]

It's the physical size of the battery. Group 49 is the long kind most likely the kind you have in there since the number ends in 49.

[sohj]

OK

After the last post, I started to turn over each page of the Parts ID catalog I got along with a bunch of other manuals in a spree on line and found that I had in the car. (I thought I had more manuals in the car, but, they aren't.) And I started to clean off everything under the hood to see markings more clearly (discovered all kinds of things embossed on various parts). What is leaking is the fuel filter housing. The oil filter is NOT leaking, but I am going to assume that there is water in it and change it and the oil as soon as my ambient temp is warmer.

And I checked the tech specs on the Sears site and this battery is a group 49.

Haven't yet figured out which is the oil gauge line.

I'm a MB neophyte and, realistically, virtually an auto newbie as well. In case you couldn't tell.

Heading out into the cold again to look further for the oil gauge line.

[kerry]

Rethink your problem, given where the leak is. These cars are very hard to start if air can get into the fuel lines. If fuel can get out of the fuel filter, I'm guessing air can get in. Resolve that problem first. Tighten up the fuel filter by tightening the large nut on the top of it. If you replace the canister fuel filter, make sure you fill it up with some kind of fuel before replacing it. Diesel purge or ATF or diesel fuel will work. If you replace that filter, also replace the primary filter in the line below.

[Ken300D]

When you say the "fuel filter housing" is leaking - can you explain more about what you are referring to?

In your car I think there are two fuel filters. There is an in-line plastic fuel filter down pretty close to the driver's side motor mount. And, there is a spin-on type (although it does not spin on, but is held on with a bolt) that is a metal can design.

If you are leaking from the plastic filter, then I think you are probably right, it has cracked from water in it freezing. If you are leaking from the metal can filter, tell us where? There is a fuel return line from the injectors (the same type of line loops from injector to injector, and then finally from #1 injector to the fuel filter support bracket. This should typically be a cloth-covered rubber line. Those lines go old and bad all the time. If it is just damp there it is no real short-term problem. Longer term you'd want to replace with new injector return lines.

Also, you should be suspicious of the strength of the anti-freeze (as I know you already are in fact). It is well worth having one of those cheap float type anti-freeze testers to gauge the strength of the stuff. -25 is what I'd call "severe" conditions. I'm a little worried for you if you have not verified the anti-freeze strength. I hope it at least does not look diluted with water.

Ken300D

[sohj]

"And, there is a spin-on type (although it does not spin on, but is held on with a bolt) that is a metal can design." This is on the driver's side of the engine block and is what seems to be leaking. from around the o-ring at the top (well, I assume it is an o-ring, there is one bolt in the middle of the lid holding the whole thing together). Didn't see an in-line one, but will check again in a.m. with daylight. Didn't notice anthing leaking from a line, will check that, too.

I take it that the "cheap float type anti-freeze tester" is a hydrometer of some kind?

And when I put in the filter, if I use diesel fuel, should I add kerosene to it? And if so, what proportion? And, does methanol work just as well?

And while I'll be doing this, can I totally drain the fuel lines and clean out the bottom of the fuel tank (next weekend) and get out any sludge that I assume has settled there over the years and then refill and bleed? And, if I can, (or should) how do I do it?



Thanks.