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Well, the Ohio Highway Patrol finally nabbed me in the 300SD! Was on the Turnpike on my way to South Bend, Indiana for the Notre Dame/Boston College game (GO IRISH!) and we were into some heavy cruising (for a diesel, that is) at around 100-110mph. Came over a little hump in the road and there he was sitting in the center, BS-ing with another patrolman when I saw him. Had the Passport on full volume but his laser must have been way to quick because my fuzzbuster didn't even register a tick! He pulled out behind me and the lights went on. Said he clocked me at 90mph in a 65. Oops! Automatic court appearance! Oh, did I mention maybe a 60 day license suspension?!?! Well, perhaps some of my lawyer buddies can help me out here. Anything 25mph over the limit is wreckless operation and that means four points! I have no points on my license now and believe it or not, have only been nabbed one other time in my life and that was way back when I was a minor. So my record is clear and has been for a very long time. My court date is the day after Thanksgiving so maybe the 'ol judge will take it easy on me. Wish me well boys. Oh, I was very much relieved when he told me he 'only' clocked me at 90! We had been cruising at around 110 for one helluva long time! He was probably shocked that he got a diesel going that fast! Well, at least Notre Dame won that day and we made it back home (a 250 mile trip) in about 3 hours and 5 minutes with my buddy at the helm. BTW, this buddy of mine got himself a 90 in a 65 just yesterday in his BMW Bavaria! Cops must really love us German car drivers. Good thing we weren't driving my 745i or the Jensen! I'd still be in jail! ------------------ Rgds, Aaron Greenberg MB technician Mercedes-Benz of Cincinnati '67 250SE Cabriolet '77 450SL '80 300SD '85 380SE '86 420SEL '89 420SEL '93 300E 2.8 '74 Jensen Interceptor Mk.III '81 DeLorean DMC12 '84 BMW 745i Turbo |
Sorry to hear that Aaron,
I have little advise in the Legal area except to always fight it, I can totally relate to your feelings! I have received to many tickets in the last year and a half, 3 for speeding to be exact! (highway only) Ouch!!! Needless to say, I've had surgury to remove the lead, now where lightweight shoes and stay out of top gear! J/K :D :D That really hits you in the old wallet too, the insurance companies are right there with thier hands out as well, democracy.., you gotta love it! I consider myself a responsible citizen, I don't steal, lie or cheat, but if speeding where a felony, I'd be locked up for LIFE! That is one topic that really, "Chap's my hide!". If you where to Poll the populace, I bet 4 out of 5 would admit to speeding at 55mph, and maybe 3 out of 5 would amit to speeding at over 65mph, and everyone (90%) would agree that limits should be raised. Now last time I checked (not recently), the laws on the books are supposed to reflect the will of the "People", not the Insurance Industry profit motive! I mean, we are past the 60's when highway speed limits where really necessary. The average newer car can easily cruise at 80mph all day long, and with the advances in Emissions Technology it should be a non-issue. Yet we are still going at "training wheel" speeds, how funny. Challenge it and you could get the ticket thrown out, I wish you LUCK! ------------------ Ross 96 C280, Greenish Black |
GOOD LUCK Aaron!
First time offense, just go to driving school and have it dismissed. Bring Alka Seltzer for the judge (post fowl meal relief) rather than an apple for the teacher! Cheers. ------------------ 1979 300D 133K miles 1989 300SE 1995 C280 |
Aaron,
This should be very simple to beat. Simply demand a recount, if that doesn't come out in your favor, demand another and repeat the process until they give up or you find that you were actually going 65 MPH. My daughter wants to go to Notre Dame. One of my best friends got his Bachelors at Notre Dame and his MBA at Boston College, it's a strange game for him I think, although he always claims to be for the Irish no matter what. When my daughter began talking Notre Dame, he started throwing gasoline on that fire. She's not Catholic, so I don't know where this got started unless she saw "Rudy" too many times. It sure is fun going fast though. Good luck, ------------------ Larry Bible '01 C Class, Six Speed '84 Euro 240D, manual, 533K miles '88 300E 5 Speed '81 300D Daughter's Car Over 800,000 miles in Mercedes automobiles |
Got a speeding ticket for doing 75 in a 45 (late for a tee time). Got a lawyer and went to court trying to reduce reckless driving to speeding by offering to go to driving school. Judge said I could go to driving school if I wanted buy GUILTY non-the-less. I appealed on advice of Lawyer and verdict held. Its now off my record and ins co never found out--whew.
------------------ Jerry O 1987 260E 175k miles |
Oh, those Ohio traffic laws are the worst! I grew up in Columbus, my first speeder got me a fine and a 30 day suspension. What I have learned since is to always fight your ticket. There are many books out there on the subject. Here in California, a wreckless operation charge is a misdemeanor. With a misdemeanor, the defendant can demand a trial by jury (remember, you can defend yourself, you can demand this yourself). The court will not want to send this to a jury trial due to cost (there still are REAl criminals out there), so you can use this as a means to plea-bargain, admitting quilt to a lesser charge (maybe just a speeding ticket - far fewer points). You can also sometimes get lucky and have the cop not show up to trial, and then the charge will be dropped, even on a misdemeanor. If I remember correctly, Ohio does not give the option of traffic school, so there is absolutely no good reason not to fight your ticket.
------------------ Dave 1982 300TD Wagon 211,000 miles |
He "clocked" you at 90 in a 65? YOu said yourself that you were going 100-110. Sounds like he saw you going "fast" and then estimated the speed.
I would fight it, because you know he didn't clock you for real. Good luck. Josh |
Bummer, Aaron.
Be sure to ask specifics on what device you were clocked with; name of mfg, last date of calibration, and most important the standards used to calibrate. I have a buddy who got out of a ticket in Ohio because the radar unit was not within the calibration interval - his lawyer added that he could have gotten off if even the "standards" used to calibrate were not within their their calibration interval. Ohio does have provision for remedial drivers course, but only for point reduction, and only once per lifetime . . . I burned mine back when I was a dumb young kid. Guess it helped - I have not had a ticket for several years. But I sure like to push it with my 300SD - seems to glide at about 90! Good luck. |
Get a real radar detector.
http://www.valentine1.com/images/v1homephoto.gif www.valentine1.com ------------------ 1988 Mercedes-Benz 260E (W124) Arctic White/Grey Debadged Euro Headlights Clear Turn Signals and 1994/1995 Taillights 16" x 7J 8-hole Michelin Pilot HX MXM 205/55WR16 1997 Mercedes-Benz E420 (W210) Pearl Black/Ash Debadged Michelin Pilot XGT Z4 P225/55ZR16 1997 Mercedes-Benz C280 (W202) Polar White/Parchment Michelin Pilot SX-GT 205/60VR15 |
The best 2 I heard about getting out of a speeding ticket:
1) This one's from a Judge friend of mine, and he swears it works in Texas: When you get the ticket, insist that you be taken in to the station house. When there, demand that the radar gun be impounded for evidence. Most places won't want to lose the radar up until the trial... 2) I'm sure this is an urban legend. You know, a friend told me this story and swears he knows the guy that was pulled over by a sheriff's deputy. When the deputy asked him if he knew why he got pulled over, he replied, "yup, you want me to buy some tickets for the policeman's ball". To which the deputy replied: "I'm a sheriff's deputy, and we don't have balls"... The deputy then realized what he said, handed back the license and registration and walked away... Bill Streep |
I've heard that you can pay your fine by check and tack on a few extra dollars. The state cannot accept the over payment and must issue a refund for the difference. Don't cash the refund check. The transaction will not be complete until all funds are accounted for and therefore not only will points not show with the state but your insurance company will not be informed.
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Last time I checked, you would have to be pretty quick with the brake pedal to slow down in enough time to not be caught by a laser gun. A little math please professor:
Speed of light ~ 300 million meters / second One mile = 1609 meters Speed of light ~ 186,451 miles / second If the cop was 1/4 mile away, you would have to hit the brakes and slow down in 1.34 microseconds. But WAIT, if the beam of light has already reached your car so that you were able to detect it, it must then be on its way back to the gun for measurement. The reason radar detectors work is because radar guns cast a huge dispersion pattern. If you are to poor sucker out front, you are having to rely on the fact that the guns emit trace radiation when they are in standby mode. If you have a good detector, you can pick this up. If not, you are toast. Best bet, make sure you have some sucker out in front of you to take the heat. I used to run with a detector, but since laser has become prevalent, you never know when you are going to get hit. It's not even worth spending the money on if you ask me. |
Maybe the reason your radar never alerted you is because he didn't have the radar on.
If I ever get pulled over, which is very rare, I always demand to see their radar detector. If it wasn't on, then its only a speed guestimate. I agree with everyone else, fight it and fight it and fight it some more, until they get so sick of you fighting it that they just dismiss it. Alon ------------------ '92 300CE Metallic Black (Blue Flaked) on Parchment Clear Corners 94-95 Tail-Lights Debadged Black Grille Insert 78.5k Miles Future Upgrades: Sportline Suspension 17" AMG Monoblocks or EVO II's Euro Headlights Performance Chip AMG Exhaust http://home.earthlink.net/~asherson/my92300ce.jpg Click here to Go To My 300CE Page |
I'd fight this to the bitter end, especially if traffic school is not an option. If it IS, then I'd ask for a reduced fine (financial hardship or some tra-la-la) and go to school.
It's all about how much time you have and how you feel about, er, stretching the truth. I *wouldn't* (hypothetically speaking, of course) be against lying through my teeth and casting logical (and illogical) dispersions about the officer, his method of "clocking you", his refusal to let you see the gun, his general emphasis as to your real speed "your honor, he kept saying "ABOUT 90 mph"", etc etc. You could (and should) admit that you were speeding, but nowhere NEAR 90mph "heck your honor, my speedometer doesn't even GO that high". The last three times I've been pulled over for speeding I got a warning simply because my very first words were a humble admittance to speeding and total cooperation. It seems to me that if you were traveling 88mph you would be facing a VERY different set of circumstances. So often the idea of the state being responsible for the burden of proof gets sidelined in traffic court. It still remains, though - make that rat PROVE he got you at 90mph. Although in a word-against-word decision the cop always gets preferential treatment, throw some dubious questions out there and then ASK for a reduced ticket. Make sure they understand that you WILL go to trial if they don't offer a lesser (say, 85mph) ticket. Let them save some face too. And if they don't go for it, ask for a trial - you're entitled to one and the cop will have to PROVE to a jury 'beyond a reasonable doubt' that you were indeed travelling in excess of 90mph. IF he can't do that through hard evidence you're off. Total dismissal. All you would have to do is cast enough doubt and play the righteous won't-let-the-incompetence-and-omnipotent-attitude-of-our-police-force-make-me-an-innocent-victim role. How can you lose with the right attitude? If for some longshot reason you DO lose, what's the difference? You still get four points and a fine. It's almost as if you can't afford to NOT fight it. Then again, depends on you. I personally think that on an open highway in good conditions a speed-trapping oink with a radar gun is the real crime. Fight the power and question authority. Matt |
Im glad this topic came up because I just got pinched this morning for cutting in a solid lane. It was morning rush hour in NYC, and I was at the end of the pack at the right lane, when i decided to get into the left lane, shoot to the front of the pack, and cut over back into the right lane where the solid white line is. The bastard was standing there with his nice shiny boots up to his knees, and his bike parked on the side. He jumped in front of the car, and he pointed, directing me to the shoulder. I told him that a truck cut me off, so thats why I ended up in the left lane, and had to cut back in at the last moment. He issued me a $70 summons, and I asked him how many points would this ticket be on my license--he said 2. This has been my first "moving violation", so there goes my perfect record. I plan on getting a lawyer, and fighting it. I want to keep my perfect record. So Aaron, I know how you feel. It feels pretty crappy to get a smear on your driving record.
For you New Yorkers....This happened on the Gowanus Expressway/Prospect Expressway west heading into the city from SI/Bklyn. The SOB waits for you where the road divides into the BQE, and the battery tunnel. BEWARE!!! ------------------ Agron 1989 300E Monotoned Smoke Silver 97 Style Replica E420 Rims 205/55/16 Euro Headlights Clear Corners 20% Tint 12" Sub-enclosure |
Aaron,
There was a story in AutoWeek about a year ago that spoke of a judge in New Jersey that would NOT accept any tickets given by the use of a laser. The anti-speeding coalition rep had them bring a laser gun into the courtroom and demonstrate how effective they work. As the trigger was pulled, the gun jerked and showed the judge that the wall was moving at 6mph. Of course the judge knew better and threw the case out. Worth a try...good luck. Tobias MB 4 MB |
Gee whiz guys, nobody ever learned the principle of cause and effect in school? How can you cherish a perfect driving record but not care whether your driving is perfect?
OK, we all like to go fast but why do some people get stopped often and others hardly ever? Maybe its not the speed but the circumstances that gets you!! I got my first ticket in 20 years while driving through Idaho on holidays. Was feeling pretty smug using my GPS to go exactly 10 mph over the limit, which allowed me to sail past all the cops. Got careless and pushed it while passing a string of road slugs up a hill and guess what - a trooper was parked over the crest. He gave me the ticket and some advice on local sights to see. We spend the rest of the day in Zion State Park and it was worth the ticket. I sent in my cheque when we got home and wrote a thank-you note for the cop...every once in awhile you need a reminder to slow down and smell the roses. :rolleyes: ------------------ Dean Albrecht 94 E500 99 ML320 www.need2speed.web.com |
'Slow down and smell the roses' ... that's a good one, and there's a lot of truth in it.
I agree that ticket-happy cops are menace. But there are many more logical arguments for backing off a little, than for driving pedal to the metal. As they say, you're a long time dead. And personally, I'm in no hurry. I like to savour my time behind the wheel of my Benz. Just a thought ... :) ------------------ Chris Hunter 1977 W123 280E auto Cayenne Pepper orange 289,000km and goin' strong ... touch Zebrano. |
Hey,
For those with speeding tickets and need to attend driving school, may I recommend the following site: http://members.aol.com/doggiesnot :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: ------------------ http://superhonda.org/board/images/smilies/spinstar.gif 1995 Mercedes-Benz E420 http://superhonda.org/board/images/smilies/spinstar.gif |
Wow, how ironic that as I read this thread, I have a hearing at 1:15 PM later today...I guess I kind of asked for this one, but it was 3 AM one late saturday night in August and I was on my way home...my neighborhood lies off of a two way, three lane in each direction highway so I was crusing at around 70-75...and I spotted two county cops sitting in a field off to my right. I saw him pull out behind me, so I knew the deal...pulled over and the guy was a REAL jerk. He was very confrontational, then when I asked to see proof of my speed, he said the radar officer is in the other car, no you can't.
There was no way he was gonna be lenient on me...a kid 10-15 years younger than him in a big benz with big wheels at 3AM...I knew I was sunk just by the look on his face when I lowered the window. But the worst part is........the guy said I was doing 81!!! in a 45....I'm sure you can do the math. This translates to NOT GOOD, since I have two other tickets within the last 3 years in MD. I admit...I have the ol' built in radar but it was off. Need to invest in newer technology I guess. But I know I wasn't doing 81...(now there is a long stretch a couple miles down, closer to my house where once in awhile I push it to about 130 or so, but hey...let's deal with the FACTS people) Anyway, I asked for continuance at my first hearing, and I'm sure the pricks will show up. But the one thing I have in my favor is that one of the prosecutors at the courthouse is a family friend and will represent me...so wish me luck. Sorry if I bored you guys to sleep but I thought I'd share my story. Wish me luck. ------------------ Chris Singh 1983 300D (ODO dead at 289k and still churning) 1993 500SEL brilliant silver monotone w/ AMG monoblock II 19", clear corners, 600 grill, in car multi monitor entertainment/computer/mp3/navigation system Had an 89 560SL Had an 89 50SEL Had a 90 300E (miss ya) http://stormworks.max3d.com/chris500.jpg |
I'd be willing to trade 2 points for speeding to get my 300SD back from the grave. Being 3rd car in a 3-car chain-reaction did "total loss" damage.
Put on your "sunday best" and go to the court date. Explain to the nice judge that you didn't realize you were going that fast, light traffic, nice day, etc. Hope they don't consider the 60 day suspension, which I'd guess they won't given your clean record. Best of luck. BCingU, Jim ------------------ '96 E300D 61k mi (wife's daily ride) '95 Audi 90 120k mi (my daily ride...) '92 GMC Suburban 140k mi '85 300SD 235k mi KIA/RIP |
Agron - if this was your first offense just go to traffic school. You think it's worth it to get a lawyer? How can you possibly win if the cop was standing there just *watching* (and ostensibly waiting for) you pull out and pass a string of cars illegally? No getting out of this one. Sounds like a dumb decision, no matter what you drive.
The ambiguity of radars and speed traps are an entirely different scenario. I think Aaron should fight this, not simply take his chances by rolling over and begging for mercy with four points, a big fine and a possible 60-day suspension on the line. As to the posts about slowing down and smelling the roses - why even bother taking up server space posting that kind of garbage here? The man has a BIG ticket. Slapping him with some BS story about cheerily accepting a ticket and hugging a cop isn't going to help him. Believe it or not, there are tens of thousands of miles of highway in THIS country where the surface, visibility and amount of traffic makes it perfectly safe to run at 90mph in a car engineered to do much more than that. I agree - speeding through traffic is asinine, but I think hiding out (be it over a crest, behind a bush, whatever) with very questionable electronics and the ability to at-will issue and enforce such draconian penalties is crazy. Good luck Aaron. |
Regrettably - we all end up at the short end of a speeding ticket. I am not a lawyer, and I am a litigation support specialist - ever wonder how the big name lawyers seem to know their stuff :) There are different tactics you can utilize - most of them on your own devices.
1) Get on the internet and determine what "local" jurisdiction you were caught (where you need to appear in court) 2) Send a letter to the prosecutor (with proof of mailing and service) to request the calibration information of the radar/laser unit, submit written questions (interrogatories) requesting info on service history of officer, number of tickets written, number dismissed, etc. 3) Request number and model of laser/radar units in service, age, repair history, etc. The point is, as long as you have requested this information (discovery) the other side has to supply. If they do not respond to you, ignore you, etc. The judge will be forced to dismiss. Most likely the prosecutor will not want to put the effort in to getting all the information you have requested and drop the case. At the very least you can continue to get continuances until the one time the officer can not make it and the judge will dismiss. Remember, you may be summoned to appear (in which the officer will be present for several tickets) and you send a letter requesting a different date - and the one time the officer does not make it - dismissed. These tactics are used all the time - trust me, this is how I make my living! ------------------ Make it a Good One! 1993 500E |
Ernest you rule. Finally, a better way to fry bacon! I'm capturing this asap!
Thanks, Matt |
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by makakio:
As to the posts about slowing down and smelling the roses - why even bother taking up server space posting that kind of garbage here? The man has a BIG ticket. Slapping him with some BS story about cheerily accepting a ticket and hugging a cop isn't going to help him. Good luck Aaron.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Yep, he has a BIG ticket and it won't help, but he DID say he WAS going over the POSTED speed. How does that make cops the bad guys here? Does that mean you never admit to being wrong unless someone PROVES you were wrong? Hmm, sounds like the sort of people we wish weren't in elected office now... My $0.02 here BCingU, Jim |
well.........
I must have gotten the COOLEST judge in the county. He was in there giving EVERYONE probation before judgement. I was looking at $270, reckless driving for being 25 over, AND 4 points....yikes!! Instead I ended up with $150, including court costs, and NO POINTS. At one point he called this guy's name, and the nervous guy tried to say guilty with an explanation, then the judge said "ok, what do you want from me after you give me your explanation." The guy says, "Lower my fine and no points." And the Judge goes "nice going Cochran, you win the case." The whole courtroom bursts into laughter. All of this and there were STILL some IDIOTS who tried to plead not guilty to speeding charges...anyway, I'm very happy and this funny judge has restored my faith a tiny bit in our system. Not EVERYone is a jerk. My 2 cents....I hope you guys get as lucky as I did today. BTW...speaking of jerks, the cop that had my ticket had 2 cases on the docket and the prick still showed up. When my prosecutor friend tried to tell him to take it easy on me, he was like "this kid has 6 priors, NO WAY..." what a jerk, he really had it in for me, digging into my past like that...even the insurance company doesn't see that far back. ------------------ Chris Singh 1983 300D (ODO dead at 289k and still churning) 1993 500SEL brilliant silver monotone w/ AMG monoblock II 19", clear corners, 600 grill, in car multi monitor entertainment/computer/mp3/navigation system Had an 89 560SL Had an 89 50SEL Had a 90 300E (miss ya) http://stormworks.max3d.com/chris500.jpg |
Not to be confrontational, but jeez guys, we're not all that bad. We even have heavy feet too. Heck, I even got pinched, by another agency once (while working) - going with the flow of traffic.
Yes, it sounds like a big one, and I feel for you, but how many times have each of us gone 80, 90, 100, 100+ and gotten away with it? Good thing he wasn't running one of his faster rides. |
Jim - nice jab if amateurish. Truthfully, I was hoping to hear some cohesive logic. Let me clarify: I absolutely can admit when I'm wrong, just as I would if I received this ticket instead of Aaron.
You see, it's real simple pal: four points, a huge cash penalty and possible 60-day suspension of the license, not to mention the REAMING you'd get from your insurance company. All for opting to yes - break the law - and drive a "reckless" 90mph on the highway (any highway in any condition. Remember: it's a blanket law). It is an amazingly harsh penalty, in my opinion. Here in California it's a $400 fine and a point or $250 and traffic school w/ no point (insurance penalty) if you go to school. Would I fight that here? Absolutely not. Do I think Ohio's penalty is waaaaay over and beyond reasonable punishment. Of course I do. But the SOLUTION to fighting this is the cop. He HAS to become the bad guy to evade this penalty. And I say so what?! In the end game, will this officer feel a reprocussion because his ticket gets dismissed? No way. Will he be blamed because the prosecutor doesn't want to get their evidence submitted on-time? What? Is he wrong in using a tool to enforce law that has a history of being beaten again and again in court? No way - it's department policy, blessed by the state of Ohio. But the officer and the gun are the only ways out of this ticket. Maybe you prefer to think that I have no accountability or conscience. But in this case it would appear that I have an awful lot to lose, just because some policy wonk determined that regardless of conditions, 90mph is the cutoff for what constitutes normal v. reckless operation and that should entail a fine of blah blah blah blah. And you would just bend over and take the principle of it all? My hero. |
Well I must thank you fellas for your most generous input in this crummy situation. I posted another thread here entitled "speeding ticket (details)" if you want the skinny before I stand before the judge. Spoke to a friend of mine (who's a Notre Dame lawyer :) :) ) and we decided to plead not guilty and go for a trial. We're gonna work the prosecutor a little and if he's a hardnose, we'll opt for the "discovery" plan. I don't mind the fine, but since I have to keep insurance on so many cars, the points will kill me! Anyhow, thanks again fellas! I'll keep ya posted! ------------------ Rgds, Aaron Greenberg MB technician Mercedes-Benz of Cincinnati '67 250SE Cabriolet '77 450SL '80 300SD '85 380SE '86 420SEL '89 420SEL '93 300E 2.8 '74 Jensen Interceptor Mk.III '81 DeLorean DMC12 '84 BMW 745i Turbo |
I resent least-common-denominator speed laws as much as the next guy, but I NEVER speed in the Buckeye zone. Would not put anything past those Ohio bears. Use cruise, spend an extra hour, try to stay awake at the wheel. A tip to Michiganders in Ohio: cover up the stickers that read "Directions to Columbus: south 'til you smell it, east 'til you step in it", "Happiness is crushed Buckeye nuts", etc. Did you know GEICO insurance lobbies extensively to outlaw radar detectors? Check out your insurer to see if you need to dump 'em and send a letter to the CEO. If you see an ad in the back pages of a magazine: "Never get another ticket!; Fool-proof guaranteed method!", don't send in the $10. You'll get a piece of paper that says "Obey all traffic laws". Car Talk's website asked for good ways of beating tickets. A quick-witted New Yorker was passing thru Tennessee when he was stopped for doing 90 mph. The bear sauntered up and smiled a big grin at him thru his mirrored shades. "Boy, I been waitin' fer you AAALLL day." Came the reply: "I got here as fast as I could, officer!" Bear doubled over in laughter, walked back to his cruiser, and drove off.
TedG '79 240 Wheezle Automatic '95 Olds Gutless Cruiser SL '73 Citroen SM 5-speed |
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On the more open areas of Autobahn in Germany, it is not uncommon at all for that differential to be 50MPH or more. Those folks have been educated from the start to move to the right and let the faster traffic pass. They have very few accidents. Of, course it is very difficult and takes lots of training and serious testing to get a driver's license there. Here, on the other hand, you must be 16 and be able to see better than 20-200.
Grandma needs to stay in the right lane. My $0.02 |
Here driving is, as is everything, a "right" and an "entitlement". In MI you don't even have to read English to get a license. If you get 16 out of 20 wrong on your no-brainer renewal exam, they give you the right answers and ask "Is that clear?" Then you get your new license. There is no road test after you first get licensed at age 16; you're set for life.
Safety is the responsibility of Ralph Nader, NBC Dateline, and the Insurance Institute for Highway Safety, aka "Appropriate Huge Tax $ for NHTSA and Institute Fascism in the Auto Mfg. Industry-PAC", at the behest of the lawyers, and at the expense of consumers/taxpayers. That'll be 2 cents. Over... |
If graduated licensing and Europe-tough licensing practices ever make the ballot here in the USA (and if they do I sincerely HOPE there's no grandfathering clause for already-licensed drivers), I'll be the first in line to vote for it. Hell, I'd even campaign in my home town for it.
But of course that will never happen because somewhere along the line it was determined that the cost associated with going through a regimented driving program would discriminate against those who can't afford it. So tell me: how does nearly ALL of the European Union get away with it? I'm especially referring to places like Italy, where the average per-household income is less than $12,000 (US) and yet it still costs between $1,700-$2,500 to qualify for a license? I vividly remember women my grandmother's age *screaming* past me on the 'bahn in big BMWs and MBZs and "handling it". I don't think it's an age or cultural issue - it's an instruction and ability issue. I have dreams of "Grade A+" express lanes flying over the cities and highways where less-capable drivers clog my current commute. |
I second that makakio!
I think it is pretty sad that is so easy to get a licence in the US. The requirements are so low that most everyone will end up getting a licence, dangerous or not! I think it is ass backwards to apply a (capability) blanket law to the driving populace when you know damn well that grandma in the old buick is not going to handle a car as competently as a driving enthusiast who spends much more on a fine piece of engineering, and who takes pride in driving proficiently! With the current state of technology, all Highway speed limits should be replaced with "Dynamic" posted limits (IMHO). A speed limit set is for ALL conditions (rain, night, etc.), in the middle of a clear sunny day conditions are optimal and the limit should reflect that. With the availability of the microprocessor these tasks are made simple and reliable, whats the hold up? We should revamp the qualifications to something more in line with Germany. I think it cost over $1500 in driver training alone and if I'm not mistaken several years plus the min. age is 21 I believe. Americans are an especially "hurried" breed, and higher standards could only raise the speed limits for thoughs people that can prove that they are able. Italy issues licences on ability I believe. Lets get back to our roots of "Life, LIBERTY (Hwy patrol need to look that definition up!), and the pursuit of Happiniess (boy, happiness to me sure does come close to speeding!)! I bet a cowboy hawling ass out in the middle of nowhere never got pulled over back when Liberty meant something! What the .... is going on, we have been snookered so to speak, our rights to liberty are all but vanishing? Am I the only person the feels this way? I smell another Poll question. |
Aaron,
Just a couple of stories to help you out. 1. A friend of mine was stopped going from Columbus to Dayton doing 145mph in his retired police cruiser. He paid a hefty fine, spent 3 days in the county country-club, and is not allowed to drive in the fine state of Ohio for 7 years! Good thing he lives in KY now! 2. A fellow Physicist friend of mine once got out of a major ticket. He proved mathematically, based on basic principles of acceleration and top-speed of the specific model cruiser, that the police car could not possibly catch him if he were going as fast as they said he was. From the stationary point of the police car, to the stop point of both cars, he proved the cruiser would have to accelerate to over 200mph instantly ... in order to catch him, based on the radar indicated speed of 130. With all the diagrams, pictures, and mathematical figures on the black-board, the judge threw out the case and asked my friend to please drive a little slower..... he did NOT want him back in his court! :) Good Luck with it.... hope it is not too expensive. |
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Some advocate for speed in England once said and I believe that "High performance cars don't Kill, Low performance drivers do". I think this is exactly true. Having lived a greater part of my life in Europe and done enough autobahn’s to last a lifetime I was shocked at the quality (of lack thereof)of driving here in America.
Firstly, the speed limit of 55 in the year 2000 is not realistic. This speed limit (please correct me if I am wrong) must of been put in place when cars all ran on 4 wheel drum brakes, tires skinner than my daughters bike, cars that were as aerodynamic as a moving house and guzzled tanks of petrol to go down the road. Secondly, if the qualities and abilities tested to get your drivers license do not change maybe an advanced drivers license should be introduced. Here you will be tested/trained on how to handle a car at certain speeds, road manners - like passing on the left, reducing speed in wet conditions, realizing that you've missed your exit and taking the next one instead of cutting up all lanes to reach that exit. Basically, general common sense issues that make a difference between driving and Driving. With this advanced license you'd be allowed to drive much faster than the low limits currently set. Showing this license to the traffic cops will be a "get out of jail free pass" and entitle us to enjoy the benefits of current, tried and tested technology. Phew, that's my vent out - sorry about going off topic. As to that ticket, if you've got the time fight it. You've got a lot more to gain than lose. Tolahouse '97 E420 |
I seem to recall that when I was young, the speed limit here was 80 MPH, It was lowered during the fuel crisis of the middle seventies and early eighties. A 1983 Cadillac Eldorado has a V8 which was installed to shut down to 4 cylinders unless the extra power is absolutely necessary. The other option that year was diesel. Both were to conserve fuel. I believe that the government saw a way to control the speed limit, to perhaps save lives and fuel, by controlling state's funding of road improvements, by withholding federal money if states raised limits. I know the limits are slowly going back up, due to public demand. I think the cars of the seventies with the enormous weight and engine design were the biggest part of fuel waste. I love SUV's but they are the fuel glugging modern day seventies waste mobiles-regardless of speed. I would like to see a study of the fuel consumption of well built driving machines of today, to show what fuel consumption at higher speeds is like. I would think that distance traveled versus usage would be better than at slower speeds.
I feel afraid when I am stuck in a slow moving group on the highway, it feels very unsafe. I also believe that it is illegal to pass on the right. I have noticed that driver's in the fast lane are so eager to get passed a slow car in the fast lane that they change to the right lane to pass very often without any warning, and the slow vehicle is trapped in the fast lane while car after car do the same. I would like to see a much higher speed limit everywhere, combined with much more strict driving regulations via education. There is nothing more frightening than an experience I had with another driver recently. I was in the old '79 300SD, in the right lane of three lanes. I was getting off at the next exit. A very new Mercedes merged on to the highway, I moved to the middle lane to let the driver on. The driver of the new Mercedes changed lanes without looking at all, he went from one side all the way over two more lanes to get in the fast lane. He almost took me out of this world, by smashing into the side of me. I braked and changed lanes very quickly to the fast lane(If a car had been in the fast lane that would have been it), fortunately he was going so fast that by the time he was in the fast lane he was 50 yards ahead of me. He never even noticed that he almost killed me. I was very impressed with my old baby. The handling was still perfect. Forgive me if my information is incorrect. |
Stupid drivers will be stupid drivers - though I ***** about solutions there really isn't one simple solution to be had, if all drivers are to co-mingle on the same road surface outside of two things: better driver training and preparation as well as stiff fines for incompetence. Think about this - who gets the ticket on a clear, sunny, light-traffic day: the guy in the fast lane driving 85mph or my grandfather tooling down the highway at 60mph (that would be UNDER the speed limit out here in CA), in the fast lane, because the slow lane "is too bumpy because of the trucks and damn it I pay taxes for these roads and I'm going to drive in whatever lane I feel like"? Said grandfather has not, in all these years, pulled to the right for ANYBODY and curses them like mad or worse yet, races some poor guy trying to pass on the right.
And it's not specific to my gramps. Passing on the right is an unfortunate thing you do here in CA (if you want to get somewhere at *at least* the speed limit) but here you have to prepare not only to pass on the right, but to race up to 90mph because the bastard next to you doesn't want you mucking up the ten miles of clear roadway in front of him. Look, I think the state penalizes the right people most of the time, but I think that there's waaaaay too much tolerance for incompetence. Their mindset is "slow is good and slower is better". Every single day I see people driving much too slowly, or stopping on highway merges, or tooling along in the fast lane at slow speeds, or merging over to the fast lane as soon as they enter the highway (at 45mph!). These morons are as big a danger (or worse) than people who drive quickly on the left and for the most part DON'T want to pass on the right. Yet these same incompetents NEVER get the ticket (keep in mind, some of you with really thin skin and PC-oriented backbones that I consider my own mother and grandfather "incompetents" when it comes to driving skill and attitude). Because they're slow. And somewhere in that they invoke the use of ABS and emergency lane changes with everyone around them the CHP appears to applaud their behaviour. Maybe I just need to move to open country. Or europe. |
About ten years ago, a study showed that most accidents on buisy metro freeways were the cause of the too slow drivers, but they were rarely actually involved in those accidents, they just did things that led to the accidents. I wish I had a copy of that article.
My $0.02, |
Its gotten so bad in NY that you can actually hit 75MPH in the slow lane and look across as you whizz by the fastlane drivers.
Drivers in NY are so used to people hugging the fastlane that I have completely stunned some drivers by getting out of their way. The look on their faces as they go by on the fastlane is one of utter disbelief, some even look lost, "Oh My God he got out of my way..now what do I do?":) We have about 6 expressways cutting through Queens, NY, basically you need to get on them to get anywhere, yet my driving test never went anywhere near any of them. This is the problem! This kind of climate creates aggressive drivers who swing from lane to lane to avoid the slow people thereby putting other people in danger. To all you fastlane huggers out there DON'T accelerate when you see fast drivers coming just get out of the freaking way AND for crying out loud use your turn signals when you do! OH and no a Navigator can't go around a highway bend at 75mph without some serious effort. And if I am breaking the law I don't need you to place your car in front of me like some kind of highway vigilante. And what is up with merging into the highway. Is it really that difficult a thing to do? Use the whole merge lane, that's what its there for. There needs to be a serious effort to training drivers before they hit the road and highway. People are getting killed for no reason on both sides of the coin. If the same effort were used to train airplane pilots as is used to train car drivers I wouldn't fly, ever. This is just my humble opinion ok, so I don't need anybody parsing out my posting to reply back. Drive safely this Holiday all. |
I agree that the driving tests are too easy. I took my test 40+ years ago in what I would call a miniature golf course at the state police barracks. I stopped at a stop sign, turned a corner, made a 180 degree turn in a restricted width area and parallel parked. Speed didn't exceed 10 MPH.
When it was over, I was licensed to drive at 65MPH and in traffic. What a joke. This is equivalent to building jet plane, testing at 100 MPH and certifying it is good for Mach2. Another pet peeve of mine is inspections of vehicles. Statistics tell us that 96% of accidents are caused by drivers and the remainder caused by defective vehicles. So what is inspected, not the cause of 96% of the accidents. No, the 4% cause is inspected and even if it was 100% effective, only 4% less accidents would happen. So much for government bureaucracy. P E H |
In Michigan they don't even inspect the 4% (no vehicle safety testing). This in a state where many vehicles are literally a shadow of their former selves, with massive rust-through from road salt, another evil cursing all of us to accommodate the many drivers who know how (barely) to drive on dry roads only.
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And one more thing to rant about!
If you drive w/o insurance and get caught or worse yet, you are involved in an accident w/o insurance, I FIRMLY believe in the state seizing your ride and selling it at auction.
Of course, the damn ACLU has problems with that too... If the law regards driving as a priviledge and not a right how does the civil liberties union manage to hamstring it so badly? |
Fine, then its settled.
We'll start a petition to have Jackie Steward as the Secretary of Transportation, to be Co-Chaired with Derek Bell and we'll send it right over to the Bush Camp!!! :D :D I look back on how fortunate I was to have my father as a speeder role model! Mind you, my father is the type that is technically proficient at any under taking (former fighter pilot). I can still here my Mom, "Slow down!", "Stop tail-gating Him!", etc., etc. It taught me to think about others behavior and His behavior. Conclusion? Here are a lot more morons out there than safe drivers and that should be unsettling for anyone. Here's the basics; 1) Merging - if clear ahead, nail it to the floor and merge AHEAD of the traffic to the left if safely possible. 2) Cruising - stay in the right most lane period! Only use the other lanes when passing and by passing than means at a speed greater than 5 mph. If you are not going to pass at that speed, speed UP, try it, it won't kill you. Please, please, please, look before pulling into that left lane and for more than a nano-second gauge the rate of the traffic coming up, if you are going to slow that traffic down, wait until you do not. If you are passing and happen to notice traffic coming up on you rather briskly, (hint, your eyes should be glued to that mirror as if you where about to walk across the street with your loved ones.) please be so kind as to NAIL IT and pull to the right so that you do not impede the progress of others (because when you see one car coming up, their are usually more). Is there more, probably. Surprisingly, this is all that bugs me about driver behavior out there. It could be much better, but if you think its really that bad then try another country like Thailand! Now that is fun, brings out the aggressive driver to say the least! Once you get back to your home, you should have no problem merging anymore, it will now be the other drivers problem.:D Last point, I think we need to push Congress to raise the speed limits again. This business of Insurance companies helping develop and giving speed sensing laser guns to police and hwy depts. free for use should be out lawed! I think speeding should not carry a monetary fine, you should simply have to show up at a high speed driving class where your tax paying dollars could be spend to teach you to safely drive at speed (more road coarse need across the country). Then you would be issued a new license plate/license, identifiable by radar, laser, etc, and by sight that would allow you to go on your merry way safely. Enough said. |
Texas: Slower traffic MUST keep right...
It's been slow in coming. Texas started by posting signs that said "Don't slow Texas down, keep right except to pass". That has helped a LITTLE. They've started posting signs on I-35 from San Antonio to Dallas reading "SLOWER TRAFFIC MUST KEEP RIGHT", and INFORCING it! Maybe they'll get to the rest of the state soon...
My pet peeve "but I'm going the speed limit!". Bill Streep '57 190SL '92 300E |
Texas is the only state I've seen where drivers would pull over on the shoulder of the road (2 lane type road)if they thought that I wanted to pass them. Texas drivers are the most courteous drivers I have ever seen.
P E H |
P.E.Haiges,
I believe you meant to say "Rural" area drivers are most courteous, out in the country side this is the norm. If you are in or near any mid - large size city that all changes. I have also witnessed this odd but appropriate behavior in New Mexico and Arizona, but as stated above, you must be away from any city.:) I have seen the signs as I am originally from Austin, it does help, a little. What they really need is for the Hwy Patrols to start enforcing this with stiff fines, then we'll make some progress. If the Patrol can harass the speeders for speeding, they can harass the slow pokes who park in the passing lanes and can't comprehend what they read on the posted signs. |
Yes, it was in rural TX areas that this happened. I think it was near the LBJ ranch. But you will never find this happening in rural NY or NJ.
P E H |
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