The harder I work, the luckier I get... (I, too, am one of those that spends more time reading about problems with 140s than actually fixing them...)

After the motor in my 126 came apart (I assume it broke the timing chain), I happened upon a 92 500sel. 145k miles, asking $13000...

The car appeared near mint, with the only problem being a need to reset the vaccuum box for the doors every few actuations (I don't bother any more - I just close the doors manually), and the typical clunk from the rear shocks. There was something not quite right in the tranny, and the steering could be better, but the AC, lights, seats, other electrics, etc., all seemed to work fine.

I put $500 in the front end, and then brought it to a local indy and said "fix everything". He did the shock mounts, changed fluids, and other stuff for a total of $900.

The only other problem has been that the tranny got worse, so I had it rebuilt recently (but found a shop that rebuilt it for $1200, and it seems to be working fine).

I am a very serious DIYer (I own a motorcycle repair shop, have 2 mechanics who work for me), and did 90% of the work on my 126, and 95% of the work on my 535i. However, it seems that by the time I get the special tools and information needed to work on the 500sel, it is worth it to simply shop around and find a deal on parts and an indy repair shop that will work with you.

If you "need" to have a positive experience with a car (don't have a backup car, have to drive far to work, can't do repairs yourself), then a 10+ year old car with mass electronics and "convenience" systems is probably not a great choice.

FWIW - my car has 162k miles and there is no sign of a wiring harness, evap, or amp being replaced. The vaccuum pump for the door closers is failing (only works a few times and then needs to be reset), but I don't really care about this (in fact, I even have a good used vacuum pump, but haven't bothered to install it...) Mirrors, HVAC, seats, cruise control, elect windows, sunroof, etc., all seem fine...

-David

As I've said in other . . .
 

similar posts, my '94 S500 cpe has been the lest expensive to operate/repair of ANY of my previous MBs! So take that!

A year or so after I bought the car, the CE light came on; was a problem with a 'bad' DI module. It was that item that got me interested in 'fixing' my car as a DIYer . . . and that spawned my Mercedes web page. I got a used part from a NYC junk yard for $200.

As one poster has commented, there's a lot of used parts available for the car and one should take advantage of that. Of course, I understand that some are not interested or capable of DIY. To those people, buy an Infinity!

Since I've had the car, about 6 years, it has needed very few repairs. And those were mostly done my me. My MOST expensive MB was a '91 190E BION! It was always 'broken' and spent alot of time being repaired.

Today, the biggest reason to NOT buy a W140 is the low(er) gas mileage. In So Cal, premium gas (and it's only 91 oct) is $2.55/gal. A 23 gal fill up will cost you $59. Now that definitely hurts the wallet especially since that needs to happen every 15mpg (city) or so.

But, as others have said, it's the greatest on-the-road-car that I have ever driven.

$10,000 a year in electronics to keep it running just isn't reasonable.


that is a huge exaggeration

I used town own one and let me tell you...there is NOTHING like it....and I have 124 and 126 models prior to that

if the car has been taken care or....you only need to watch for the AC evap ...that can be expensive..other stuff is eother not much money...or no more than a 126


Warren

1992 300SD(sold)

2000 BMW 740i w/sprt package and CPO warranty

Not expensive
 

I've had my '93 300SE for almost 3 yrs. I am the 2nd owner and the original owner followed the service schedule religiously. I change the oil every 3K miles. The most expensive service was the 60K at about 500 bucks. The only unscheduled repair was the Air Mass Meter which was about 300 bucks and a rear window regulator for 200 bucks. A thousand bucks of repairs over 3 years is not out of line in my opinion for probably the best driving road car I have ever owned. It gets 28MPG on the highway and is built like a tank.

I have spent probably $10000 on mine for upkeep --- in 9 1/2 years. $10000 per year is ludicrous!

Well how do you like your 740 compared to your 140?

Well how do you like your 740 compared to your 140?




somewhat like appes and oranges comparison

the 140 rode better and was quieter

740 handles much better and feels very much like a smaller car than it is
almost makes me whant to drive fast time just becuase it feels good doing it


bottom line...I loved the 140 I had....I really like the 740 I have now.....
need to have the BMW for a while to check realibilility

seems that it might be a pretty relaible car from what the dealer and a few other owners say.

Doesn't seem that the repair costs are at the level of the 140..BUT the 740 is a less expensive car

On the used car market I would have probably really leaned towards a S500 of the same year as the BMW I bought had they been the same price.


Warren
1992 300SD (sold)
2000 BMW 740 w/sport package

While fairly new to 140 ownership (I picked up my 500sel in March), I have managed to run it 15,000 miles in that time, so I do have some experience with reliablity and ongoing maintenance.

Even if you include the $1200 tranny rebuild (which should be amortized over it's life), I still managed to only spend .17c per mile (not counting purchase price and depreciation), which for a 150,000 mile car in it's first months of ownership with me is relatively inexpensive.

In the last 10 years:

85 535i ($2500, 190k miles, exc cond) - first week $1000+ (new head, broke on the way home), soon thereafter $800 in suspension, and another $1000 in misc over the next two months. From this point, it ran great for 50k+ miles with minor maintenance, and is now for sale (runs great, looks great).

86 560sel ($1400, 150k miles, ratty) - first week $560 front suspension, $700 engine (new fuel dist, tuning items), $500 misc (fuel pumps, etc). From this point, I refused to do anything else, engine popped a year later.

92 500sel ($7800, 145k miles, exc+) - first week $500 front suspension, $900 misc (shock tops, fluids, tstat, more), 6 months later $1200 tranny. Today, it runs and looks 99%+.

The point is that, in my experience, if you purchase a 10+ year old used car, you should expect to spend $2000+ in the first few months of ownership (to take care of the things the po didn't want to do, or didn't bother him/her...)

Of course, if you don't do your homework the prices could get much worse (the dealer wouldn't have done the work on my 500 for under $10k...), and you could end up having worse luck. (If I need an evap and an amp in the next couple months then my overall experience will start to deteriorate quickly...)

-David

I've owned my '92 500SEL now for about a year and a half and I am not quite sure where I fall in this issue or which way to lean. When purchased, the car had 160k miles on the clock. The way I see it, that was like 14.5k miles a year which is average. Since owning it I replaced the rear accumulators and upper shock bushings, and had the p/s-hydraulic pump rebuilt at $1100, total. For a 12 year old car with 170k miles it is still an awesome automobile, and one should expect to spend that kind of money (at least) on an annual basis. I do believe in traditional (at least to '98 or so) MB build quality when it comes to the true mechanicals of the car such as engine, suspension, brakes, etc....but have a sinking feeling in my gut that the electronics may cost me in the future. I had an isolated ASR problem 6 mo. ago and all the threads here predicted doomsday-like repair costs in the $4-8,000 range for all sorts of different componants. I simply reset the car's computer and haven't had a bit of a problem since (knock on burl!). I'm still on the fence on this vehicle: I love the car and believe it is one of the finest automobiles ever produced, but should I hold onto it and await a possible devestating repair cost? I'm still on the fence!

I had posted this regarding my W140... sometimes I think MB should give the cars away and make the money on service.

Mine had all service done..... and currenly only has 120,000 miles


Air Con failure - $4000ish
Gear selector light failure
Dashboard lights
Steering Grear Leak at seals - $400ish for reseal kit
Central lock failure $700ish behind rear seat
PSE Pump Failure - 700ish -trunk
Water leak - New Water Pump
Transmission flaring between gears - Rebuilt at 115,000 miles $2,800
Oil leak at front of both cam shaft seals $300ish
Oil leak from valve cover 200ish
Drive shaft linkage worn
Ventilation blower motor failure $500ish
Radio Amp replacement $500ish
Radio Tuner replacement $100ish
New engine wiring harness $600ish
Headlamp wiper failure
Break in front glass at base of window - just sealed
New control arms both upper and lower
Ball Joints 2 times
torsion bar (Normal Wear)
steeing shock (normal wear)
sway bar bushings (normal wear)
most all the hoses on the engine

and the normal maintenance items like brakes and rotors, etc...

I've had my 95 S420 for 4 years now. I bought it with 59k miles so I was able to buy an extended warrenty (3 yrs/30k) which paid off when the evaporator went. As an ex grease monkey, I've fixed a few bugs: driver's door check, drivers window regulator, vacume pump (This turned out to be a loose hose on the pump), and turn signal sw. That's about it. My only problem now is a hard warm start (it cranks for 4-5 seconds). Any thoughts on that problem?
Oh, I almost forgot, the Driver's seat adjustment gear mentioned above. Now where can I get a similar gear? I was quoted $1300 US for the seat adjust assembly.

normwm, you can get a seat track assembly with motors on eBay for $200 plus $30 shipping. Maybe we can split it since I need a gear as well. Uhh... assuming that a single seat track assembly has enough gears for both of us.

I looked into W126, W124 and W210 seat tracks and they don't use the same gear as the one that's broken in my S420. I still have a perfectly good W210 seat track with memory module to show for it.

I happened upon a used wiper gearbox to replace my wiper gearbox with a stripped gear. W201, W124 and W208 wiper gearboxes don't use the same gears either. I have a perfectly good W208 wiper gearbox to show for it. It took a while for me to realize that the wiper should extend at the corner. It seemed strange that MB would leave that large area unwiped. All this trouble because MB couldn't make the wipers sweep the 'proper' way.

Sixto
95 S420
87 300SDL

That reminds me; I have replaced my wiper gearbox and ignition switch also. Add that to my list above. Been so long ago I had forgotten. If Mercedes would sell the little gears and such in items like the seat and wiper gearbox, it would make life a lot easier and cheaper.

It's going to depend on your persepctive and expectations. My C230 costs nearly nothing to run, but it's far from the flagship of the line. Compared to a Porsche, a W140 might be cheap! Here's some of my own experience with the "other" Stuttgart brand... (Canadian dollars, so don't e-mail me about being ripped of on parts) Car is 1987 911 turbo.

...here is two years of records.

For calender year 1995:

25,000km service: (MUST be done EVERY 25K, or risk burning valves and ruining the top end which could be a $15,000 bill in a hurry, and might be $25,000 if you go far enough) includes removal of engine for valve adjustment and ALL fluids and filters replaced and plugs. Labour (at my indie) flat rate for 25K service = $1099 Parts (including oil/filter/plugs) = $720 Total with GST/shop supplies: $2021

Brakes were done that spring. On the turbo, you must replace the discs when replacing pads, as the discs are prone to cracking and breaking around the drilling holes. Front discs 2 x $328.50 = $657 Rear Discs 2 x $323.77 = $647.55 Front Pad Set $124.26 Rear Pad Set $124.26 Labour $850 Total Parts $1553.07 Total with shop/GST = $1693.88

New Clutch: Clutch "Kit" $2049.28 Labour $770.00 Total with tax: $3048.72

Replace Primary and Secondary Fuel Pumps : Primary Pump: $424.47 Secondary Pump: $703.23 Labour $550 Total (all incl) = $1840.40

Three additional minor services including oil/filter @$330 each = $990.

For 1995, maintenance and repairs (not including gas/tires/or insurance) was $9594.00

For Calander Year 1996:

25K Service: $2105.00

Air Conditioning Major Service: Evaporator with expansion valve: $814.40 Receiver Drier: $224.00 Labour $480.00 Total with taxes: $1649.30 Labour should have been $1100, but was reduced due to misdiagnosis.

Replace Aux Fan Assembly: Fan 1 $669.90 Labour $225.00 Total with taxes: $957.55

Replace Fuel Lines: 2 x $604.77 = $1209.54 Labour $550.00 Total with tax: $1898.75

2 x minor services @ $310.00 = $620.00

Total for 1996 NOT including tires, gas, or insurance = $7230.60

Total for 1995 and 1996 = $16,824.60
Insurance for 1995: $3150
Insurance for 1996: $3230
Gasoline for 1995: $1755
Gasoline for 1996: $1650
Tires in 1995: $1227.00
Tires in 1996: $1318.00 (Yes, it used a set every 22-25K)

Total non-repairs/maintainance items: $12,330

Total running costs for 1995 and 1996: $29,154.60 or $1214.77 per month. For the 48,000km's I drove those two years (not a garage queen!) it was $0.607 per kilometer.

Costs of owning 140 model
 

Talked with a good friend today that has owned a 94 s500. They bought it 4 years ago with 32K miles for $33k--it was pristine. Now has 82K miles and has been trouble free--still looks new--but value (according to KBB) is only $16K tops. That's $0.34/mile just for depreciation. Pity the first owner who paid $2.00/mile!! depreciation.

Other friends who bought new have had horrible repairs costs on top of the devastating depreciation. Unfortunately, the repairs on some seem to keep on coming. Buy ONLY one with COMPLETE service and repair history and that is short. If it has had a lot of work--it will keep needing a lot of work it seems.