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Are W140's as expensive to maintain as everyone makes them out to be?
I just did a search on them and they all seem to have the same problems. For example the wireing harnes, evap core, vacuum problems, and the amp.
Other then that as long as you stay away from an S600 are they really any more money to keep going then the W126 is? I mean the I am a W126 fan but they are no bargin to keep going parts prices seem to be about the same. It seems to me if you buy a nice say mid 90's S320/420 with a new harness, evap core and a good maintaince history it will probably be a reasonable car to keep on the road. By MB standards anyway. Also none of the problems seem to be to terrible $$$ wise at least for the diy. The evap core can probably be done in a long weekend or over a vacation. The wireing harness seems to be around $400 and can't take more then a day. The door close and trunk close assit problems are an optional fix. I look at that as a neat little feature that is nice while it lasts! :D But vac problems tend to be a pita to find but cheap to fix. The amps I'll give them that I don't know what they cost but their probably not cheap. But how often do they break? Every 10 years? Other then that no one seems to have major driveline or suspension problems. Am I wrong here? |
Well, it all depends.....
I've heard of people dumping them as soon as the factory extended warrenty ran out because they were on their third $4000 engine computer and the $2500 climate control unit had just puked again..... $10,000 a year in electronics to keep it running just isn't reasonable. MB has admitted that there are electronics problems with these cars (including severe harness problems --DO NOT move the wiring harness, even for troubleshooting, if you don't want to replace the whole blasted thing -- even unplugging the six or so computer connections will cause havoc because the insulation will shatter, crossing all the wires up). Add to that the "convience relay" package ($2500 or more) so you can open and close windows and sunroof (croaks pretty regular, too!), argon filled windows (I can only guess what they cost!), etc. NOT an economical car, if truely one of the best quality build machines Benz every made. You do in fact not need to care how much it costs to have one of these, unlike the W126 or W116 -- or the W108, for that matter. That said, you may get one that runs and runs with no major expenses, but I cannot afford to fix one. Peter |
W140 parts costs etc.
I suggest you check the parts prices again. Many parts have doubled or more in the last year alone. main engine compartment harness on my car (94 sl-600) went from $900 to $2900 in one year. Electronic throttle actuators went from $3500 a pair to $6400 a set. Gonna sell the ***** if I can get it running. Getting a 'heater hose' was 8-10 working days from Germany--and the part is a 120 model part (from 78?) None in stock in USA.
Do yourself a big favor and go drive a good 1998-2000 Infinity Q45. |
So what's so special about a "1998-2000" Infinity Q45? I'm looking for insider tips - why would a fool buy a 97 or and 01?
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Body wise on my W140 I have replaced the evaporator core and the vacuum pump in the trunk. Also rear window regulators go out often and two of the four door checks have broken. I repaired the rear view mirror using the fix on this forum. Not too bad for 9 1/2 years and 269,000 miles. Drive a 124 or 126 and then drive the 140. Pretty easy decision in my opinion.
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YES!! When compared to the cost to maintain a w126. The parts of on the w140 are outrageous!! Common problem is for the ac evaporator to go out. You don't even want to know how much that costs to have fixed. The entire front passenger compartment gets disassebled. All you see is thosands of wires!!! They are great to look at, but I know I wouldn't want to pay the repair bill after taking it to the shop.
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I haven't had to do a heck of a lot to the S420 over 16 months and 8,000 miles. The repairs I've been making have been on pre-existing conditions and I've been able to get by with used parts. I spend more time reading about problems with W140s than dealing with problems with mine.
As I've said before, MB asked me what I'd change about the W126 and came up with the W140. Of course I asked for fabric upholstery and manual AC but they met me part of the way with warm air from the center vents and override blower control :) Sixto 95 S420 87 300SDL |
So their seems to be two groups of people that have had them. Either they have been pretty good with only the usual MB problems or they have been sucking down $2k computers. But do all W140's have this "convience package"? What about a base S320? Or S420?
Can't you get those computers used? Electronics either work or they don't so I would think that since the W140 has been around for awhile you could find a smashed up one that is being parted out. Kebowers well it is a V12 I like the engine a lot but I would not own one! :D |
Hatterasguy, I believe that the answer to your question about the convience(sp?) package is YES. I remember we were looking at a 1993 400sel, which definently had the convenience package, and amg chrome 18s as well, but it needed too many things to make it worth while. We were also looking at a 1992 300sd, which had the convience package as well, but it needed new seat belt retractors (which are another common problem on these cars), an ac evaporator and a vacuum pump controlling the vacuum assisted doors and trunk lid. So If a 300sd has the convience package I would assume the higher models had it as well. When you say "convience package" you are referring to if you turn and hold the key in the driver door one direction all the windows go down and the sunroof opens, and the opposite direction all the windows go up and the sunroof closes, correct???
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i have a number of benzes.
until i acquired my c140, my fave was my c126. and i still like the 126, but the 140 is a better bit of engineering. its suspension is better. it goes through the twisty-bits at a higher speed. its engine is better. it has the hp and torque that the us version 126's were denied. it's quieter. on the other hand, it is too wide for narrow roads. this makes it more than a handful. additionally, the front end disappears from the view of the driver, this makes it more of a driving mystery than the c126. braking is superb. odd tire size is not a virtue. but i must tell you that the avid v4s are great. so superior to the michelin shoes that michelin thought would own the owners of these benzes. thank you yokohama. coefficient of drag is so refined. in the c126, opening the driver side window at any speed would beat you to death. in this c140, one can run 60+ with the driver side window open and do it without your ear being beaten to death. on the other hand, the sunroof deflector in the c126 is far superior to the deflector in the c140. closing with this, the c126 has 238 bhp. the c140 has 315bhp. the c126 has a difficult time giving me 13mpg. the c140 routinely gives me 16+mpg. you do the math. i like the c140. it is the best for running at 100+ on the houston rent-a-bahn. buy one while you can. one of the most expensive production autos ever manufactured. you will not find anything like it in the future. but, make sure that you have reservoirs of cash. benz is going to find a way to get back the beaucoup of dough that they spent on this model. what do you figure the 140 series cost benz? i figure several billions of dollars. they are going to be intent on getting that back. if you own a 140, prepare to bend over. |
closing with this, the c126 has 238 bhp. the c140 has 315bhp. the c126 has a difficult time giving me 13mpg. the c140 routinely gives me 16+mpg.
Hmm...my 560SEL give me 15-18mpg local, and 22-24 highway. while my S500 (M119) only give me 12-15 local, over 20 highway And i guess you should use S600 to compare with 560SEL, both are flagship of Benz I love both W126/140, 140 is quieter but I like the seat of the 126 more. I have a weird thought that you drive the car more, the car will be happy and give you less trouble. I put 30000miles into my 560SEL last year, the car start at the first crank, burn 1qt motor oil every 3000miles, still drive excellent! |
well j, my 1987 c126 has 90k.
the 1997 c140, 35k the 1986 s126, 265k oddly enough, the 560sel has routinely delivered 15mpg. the 560sec, routinely 13 mpg. the s500c, routinely 16+mpg. my 1995 e320cab, 13k, routinely delivers 20mpg. my 6.9, 9pmg. all are driven the same way. fast. care to explain it? |
From my experience the cost of parts for the W140 are at least double that for a W126 / W210. Apart from the engine the W140 seems to share very little common parts with other Mercedes models which probably pushes the cost up.
Recently the seat height adjustment of my S320 broke and on investigation one of the plastic drive gears had stripped. The individual parts could not be bought from the dealer and they wanted £900 for a whole new seat assembly!! Luckily I was able to track down a similar looking plastic gear and adapt it to fit. If you look at it in purely financial terms the W140 is completely illogical. But if you treat it partly as a hobby and get great satisfaction from driving one of the best cars in the world then it starts to make sense but don't be fooled into thinking a cheap purchase price means a cheap car to run. |
Last year I helped a friend looking for a W140 sedan, and I'll tell you I was shocked. We looked at quite a few cars, but only ones with complete records. Lot-hags without any paperwork were ignored. The list of repairs on every car made me faint. The warranty repairs and then the non-warranty repairs on various cars was long, and the totals were more like the price of a condo, not a car's service history. There was a nice S320LWB that drove very nicely and had almost no driveline related problems but the list of other repairs could have wallpapered my house.
Now, if you know that going in, the 140 is awesome. Nothing compares, absolutely nothing. |
I have a 92 500SEL and I'm not sure I should type this but ...I guess I don't believe you can hex something just by praising it :)
Had some warranty issues when new, it was towed in 3 times for a stall and no restart. Turned out to be dist caps so no problem with that since. They did something with the front bushings <lower control arm> but actually don't remember what it was now. And that was it for warranty visits. The car has 82K miles on it and I have replaced all the rotors once, pads twice in the front once in the rear. On the third set of tires, came with p600's the next set was Goodyear LS and now avid 4's. Rear view mirror broke loose, took it apart and repaired it. Speedo needle started to bounce and then ASR light came on, replaced speed sensor left front wheel. Bose Amp needed to be rebuilt. So far less then $800.00 bucks spent on parts other then Maint. The car also has a noise over bumps that I have chased down to the lower shock bushings in the rear. If anyone has come up with a fix for this other then replacing the hydro struts I'd love to hear about it. Damn reliable car if you ask me <knocking burled walnut> |
The harder I work, the luckier I get... (I, too, am one of those that spends more time reading about problems with 140s than actually fixing them...)
After the motor in my 126 came apart (I assume it broke the timing chain), I happened upon a 92 500sel. 145k miles, asking $13000... The car appeared near mint, with the only problem being a need to reset the vaccuum box for the doors every few actuations (I don't bother any more - I just close the doors manually), and the typical clunk from the rear shocks. There was something not quite right in the tranny, and the steering could be better, but the AC, lights, seats, other electrics, etc., all seemed to work fine. I put $500 in the front end, and then brought it to a local indy and said "fix everything". He did the shock mounts, changed fluids, and other stuff for a total of $900. The only other problem has been that the tranny got worse, so I had it rebuilt recently (but found a shop that rebuilt it for $1200, and it seems to be working fine). I am a very serious DIYer (I own a motorcycle repair shop, have 2 mechanics who work for me), and did 90% of the work on my 126, and 95% of the work on my 535i. However, it seems that by the time I get the special tools and information needed to work on the 500sel, it is worth it to simply shop around and find a deal on parts and an indy repair shop that will work with you. If you "need" to have a positive experience with a car (don't have a backup car, have to drive far to work, can't do repairs yourself), then a 10+ year old car with mass electronics and "convenience" systems is probably not a great choice. FWIW - my car has 162k miles and there is no sign of a wiring harness, evap, or amp being replaced. The vaccuum pump for the door closers is failing (only works a few times and then needs to be reset), but I don't really care about this (in fact, I even have a good used vacuum pump, but haven't bothered to install it...) Mirrors, HVAC, seats, cruise control, elect windows, sunroof, etc., all seem fine... -David |
As I've said in other . . .
similar posts, my '94 S500 cpe has been the lest expensive to operate/repair of ANY of my previous MBs! So take that!
A year or so after I bought the car, the CE light came on; was a problem with a 'bad' DI module. It was that item that got me interested in 'fixing' my car as a DIYer . . . and that spawned my Mercedes web page. I got a used part from a NYC junk yard for $200. As one poster has commented, there's a lot of used parts available for the car and one should take advantage of that. Of course, I understand that some are not interested or capable of DIY. To those people, buy an Infinity! Since I've had the car, about 6 years, it has needed very few repairs. And those were mostly done my me. My MOST expensive MB was a '91 190E BION! It was always 'broken' and spent alot of time being repaired. Today, the biggest reason to NOT buy a W140 is the low(er) gas mileage. In So Cal, premium gas (and it's only 91 oct) is $2.55/gal. A 23 gal fill up will cost you $59. Now that definitely hurts the wallet especially since that needs to happen every 15mpg (city) or so. But, as others have said, it's the greatest on-the-road-car that I have ever driven. |
$10,000 a year in electronics to keep it running just isn't reasonable.
that is a huge exaggeration I used town own one and let me tell you...there is NOTHING like it....and I have 124 and 126 models prior to that if the car has been taken care or....you only need to watch for the AC evap ...that can be expensive..other stuff is eother not much money...or no more than a 126 Warren 1992 300SD(sold) 2000 BMW 740i w/sprt package and CPO warranty |
Not expensive
I've had my '93 300SE for almost 3 yrs. I am the 2nd owner and the original owner followed the service schedule religiously. I change the oil every 3K miles. The most expensive service was the 60K at about 500 bucks. The only unscheduled repair was the Air Mass Meter which was about 300 bucks and a rear window regulator for 200 bucks. A thousand bucks of repairs over 3 years is not out of line in my opinion for probably the best driving road car I have ever owned. It gets 28MPG on the highway and is built like a tank.
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I have spent probably $10000 on mine for upkeep --- in 9 1/2 years. $10000 per year is ludicrous!
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Well how do you like your 740 compared to your 140?
somewhat like appes and oranges comparison the 140 rode better and was quieter 740 handles much better and feels very much like a smaller car than it is almost makes me whant to drive fast time just becuase it feels good doing it bottom line...I loved the 140 I had....I really like the 740 I have now..... need to have the BMW for a while to check realibilility seems that it might be a pretty relaible car from what the dealer and a few other owners say. Doesn't seem that the repair costs are at the level of the 140..BUT the 740 is a less expensive car On the used car market I would have probably really leaned towards a S500 of the same year as the BMW I bought had they been the same price. Warren 1992 300SD (sold) 2000 BMW 740 w/sport package |
While fairly new to 140 ownership (I picked up my 500sel in March), I have managed to run it 15,000 miles in that time, so I do have some experience with reliablity and ongoing maintenance.
Even if you include the $1200 tranny rebuild (which should be amortized over it's life), I still managed to only spend .17c per mile (not counting purchase price and depreciation), which for a 150,000 mile car in it's first months of ownership with me is relatively inexpensive. In the last 10 years: 85 535i ($2500, 190k miles, exc cond) - first week $1000+ (new head, broke on the way home), soon thereafter $800 in suspension, and another $1000 in misc over the next two months. From this point, it ran great for 50k+ miles with minor maintenance, and is now for sale (runs great, looks great). 86 560sel ($1400, 150k miles, ratty) - first week $560 front suspension, $700 engine (new fuel dist, tuning items), $500 misc (fuel pumps, etc). From this point, I refused to do anything else, engine popped a year later. 92 500sel ($7800, 145k miles, exc+) - first week $500 front suspension, $900 misc (shock tops, fluids, tstat, more), 6 months later $1200 tranny. Today, it runs and looks 99%+. The point is that, in my experience, if you purchase a 10+ year old used car, you should expect to spend $2000+ in the first few months of ownership (to take care of the things the po didn't want to do, or didn't bother him/her...) Of course, if you don't do your homework the prices could get much worse (the dealer wouldn't have done the work on my 500 for under $10k...), and you could end up having worse luck. (If I need an evap and an amp in the next couple months then my overall experience will start to deteriorate quickly...) -David |
I've owned my '92 500SEL now for about a year and a half and I am not quite sure where I fall in this issue or which way to lean. When purchased, the car had 160k miles on the clock. The way I see it, that was like 14.5k miles a year which is average. Since owning it I replaced the rear accumulators and upper shock bushings, and had the p/s-hydraulic pump rebuilt at $1100, total. For a 12 year old car with 170k miles it is still an awesome automobile, and one should expect to spend that kind of money (at least) on an annual basis. I do believe in traditional (at least to '98 or so) MB build quality when it comes to the true mechanicals of the car such as engine, suspension, brakes, etc....but have a sinking feeling in my gut that the electronics may cost me in the future. I had an isolated ASR problem 6 mo. ago and all the threads here predicted doomsday-like repair costs in the $4-8,000 range for all sorts of different componants. I simply reset the car's computer and haven't had a bit of a problem since (knock on burl!). I'm still on the fence on this vehicle: I love the car and believe it is one of the finest automobiles ever produced, but should I hold onto it and await a possible devestating repair cost? I'm still on the fence!
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I had posted this regarding my W140... sometimes I think MB should give the cars away and make the money on service.
Mine had all service done..... and currenly only has 120,000 miles Air Con failure - $4000ish Gear selector light failure Dashboard lights Steering Grear Leak at seals - $400ish for reseal kit Central lock failure $700ish behind rear seat PSE Pump Failure - 700ish -trunk Water leak - New Water Pump Transmission flaring between gears - Rebuilt at 115,000 miles $2,800 Oil leak at front of both cam shaft seals $300ish Oil leak from valve cover 200ish Drive shaft linkage worn Ventilation blower motor failure $500ish Radio Amp replacement $500ish Radio Tuner replacement $100ish New engine wiring harness $600ish Headlamp wiper failure Break in front glass at base of window - just sealed New control arms both upper and lower Ball Joints 2 times torsion bar (Normal Wear) steeing shock (normal wear) sway bar bushings (normal wear) most all the hoses on the engine and the normal maintenance items like brakes and rotors, etc... |
I've had my 95 S420 for 4 years now. I bought it with 59k miles so I was able to buy an extended warrenty (3 yrs/30k) which paid off when the evaporator went. As an ex grease monkey, I've fixed a few bugs: driver's door check, drivers window regulator, vacume pump (This turned out to be a loose hose on the pump), and turn signal sw. That's about it. My only problem now is a hard warm start (it cranks for 4-5 seconds). Any thoughts on that problem?
Oh, I almost forgot, the Driver's seat adjustment gear mentioned above. Now where can I get a similar gear? I was quoted $1300 US for the seat adjust assembly. |
normwm, you can get a seat track assembly with motors on eBay for $200 plus $30 shipping. Maybe we can split it since I need a gear as well. Uhh... assuming that a single seat track assembly has enough gears for both of us.
I looked into W126, W124 and W210 seat tracks and they don't use the same gear as the one that's broken in my S420. I still have a perfectly good W210 seat track with memory module to show for it. I happened upon a used wiper gearbox to replace my wiper gearbox with a stripped gear. W201, W124 and W208 wiper gearboxes don't use the same gears either. I have a perfectly good W208 wiper gearbox to show for it. It took a while for me to realize that the wiper should extend at the corner. It seemed strange that MB would leave that large area unwiped. All this trouble because MB couldn't make the wipers sweep the 'proper' way. Sixto 95 S420 87 300SDL |
That reminds me; I have replaced my wiper gearbox and ignition switch also. Add that to my list above. Been so long ago I had forgotten. If Mercedes would sell the little gears and such in items like the seat and wiper gearbox, it would make life a lot easier and cheaper.
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It's going to depend on your persepctive and expectations. My C230 costs nearly nothing to run, but it's far from the flagship of the line. Compared to a Porsche, a W140 might be cheap! Here's some of my own experience with the "other" Stuttgart brand... (Canadian dollars, so don't e-mail me about being ripped of on parts) Car is 1987 911 turbo.
...here is two years of records. For calender year 1995: 25,000km service: (MUST be done EVERY 25K, or risk burning valves and ruining the top end which could be a $15,000 bill in a hurry, and might be $25,000 if you go far enough) includes removal of engine for valve adjustment and ALL fluids and filters replaced and plugs. Labour (at my indie) flat rate for 25K service = $1099 Parts (including oil/filter/plugs) = $720 Total with GST/shop supplies: $2021 Brakes were done that spring. On the turbo, you must replace the discs when replacing pads, as the discs are prone to cracking and breaking around the drilling holes. Front discs 2 x $328.50 = $657 Rear Discs 2 x $323.77 = $647.55 Front Pad Set $124.26 Rear Pad Set $124.26 Labour $850 Total Parts $1553.07 Total with shop/GST = $1693.88 New Clutch: Clutch "Kit" $2049.28 Labour $770.00 Total with tax: $3048.72 Replace Primary and Secondary Fuel Pumps : Primary Pump: $424.47 Secondary Pump: $703.23 Labour $550 Total (all incl) = $1840.40 Three additional minor services including oil/filter @$330 each = $990. For 1995, maintenance and repairs (not including gas/tires/or insurance) was $9594.00 For Calander Year 1996: 25K Service: $2105.00 Air Conditioning Major Service: Evaporator with expansion valve: $814.40 Receiver Drier: $224.00 Labour $480.00 Total with taxes: $1649.30 Labour should have been $1100, but was reduced due to misdiagnosis. Replace Aux Fan Assembly: Fan 1 $669.90 Labour $225.00 Total with taxes: $957.55 Replace Fuel Lines: 2 x $604.77 = $1209.54 Labour $550.00 Total with tax: $1898.75 2 x minor services @ $310.00 = $620.00 Total for 1996 NOT including tires, gas, or insurance = $7230.60 Total for 1995 and 1996 = $16,824.60 Insurance for 1995: $3150 Insurance for 1996: $3230 Gasoline for 1995: $1755 Gasoline for 1996: $1650 Tires in 1995: $1227.00 Tires in 1996: $1318.00 (Yes, it used a set every 22-25K) Total non-repairs/maintainance items: $12,330 Total running costs for 1995 and 1996: $29,154.60 or $1214.77 per month. For the 48,000km's I drove those two years (not a garage queen!) it was $0.607 per kilometer. |
Costs of owning 140 model
Talked with a good friend today that has owned a 94 s500. They bought it 4 years ago with 32K miles for $33k--it was pristine. Now has 82K miles and has been trouble free--still looks new--but value (according to KBB) is only $16K tops. That's $0.34/mile just for depreciation. Pity the first owner who paid $2.00/mile!! depreciation.
Other friends who bought new have had horrible repairs costs on top of the devastating depreciation. Unfortunately, the repairs on some seem to keep on coming. Buy ONLY one with COMPLETE service and repair history and that is short. If it has had a lot of work--it will keep needing a lot of work it seems. |
I put a lot of stock in what MB repair shop owner friends, and mechanics, tell me. And to a person, and this is at least 15 individuals in the states of California, Oregon and Washington, they say to stay away from the W140 and C140. And never to purchase one used, particularly a 600 model, unless you have money to burn, or want to take out a sizable home equity line or second mortgage.
They'll unanimously praise the W140 as a "stoutly" built, great-driving car, but that's all. Then they'll effusively praise the W126 and C126 as being simpler, cheaper, and easier to maintain. They also praise the build quality, quality of materials used, safety, and the relative simplicity (i.e. lack of unnecessary gimmicks and gadgets (such as double-pane windows)), and far more elegant exterior design of the 126. This is not my opinion. This is the opinion of MANY people who work on the cars, who know them inside out. Cheers, Gerry |
It all boils down to basics. If you want a W140, be patient, and buy the right one. Do a ton of research BEFORE you buy the car. Know what to look for, and avoid any vehicle that exhibits these problems no matter how much you may think you want it. I researched W140 prices and issues for two years before I bought mine. I saw some very sad cars in my search, and passed them up knowing I would eventually find the one I wanted. I did. It's a 600, and it's fantastic. I've had it for 1 year and 7 months. I've spent maybe $1,200 in parts to get it where it should be, and I have a little more to go. I am a capable DIY'er, so I don't pay someone else for labor. If you want one, buy the right one. If it turns out to be too much trouble, sell it.
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Are the last years 97-99 any better than earlier ones? i.e. problems worked out?
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Yes, 97-99 had most of the bugs worked out.
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My 95 S600 is a tank! I have owned 34 cars & this is the best. Drives like new, 69k miles. Original wire harness, evap, and amp.
Its also a german model with over 400 hp & factory wine cooler. Normal maintenance only. No winters & garaged. You have never owned a Mercedes until you own a V-12. I am glad everyone is scared of the V-12, keeps them rare! I also have a raggy 89 300SE. Takes more maintenance $'s than the W140 ever thought of! My 911 is a pretty good money pit, mostly upgrades............... |
1994 S350 with 70k miles. My parents bought it new, gave it to me. Motor rebuild (but this is almost expected with the famous 3.5 L Turbodiesel), back windows, AC stopped working (probably the evaporator, will find out in the summer), sunroof started sticking.
It's various stuff. Yes my parents and myself have put a good deal of money into this. But not as much as some people on here have stated. Definitely not $10k a year. More like $2k a year but that includes maintainance that finally caught up with this car. Other than that, I'm pretty happy with it. If it really is the AC evap, I may just sell it and get a Japanese car. |
Sounds like a lot of folks here have had luck with W140s.
Well, as general advice, an M-B specialist told me that the best W140 to purchase would be a pre-1995 version. This would have all the superb quality parts that M-B was known for, before they "cheapened" all M-B in 1995 in order to be able to reduce the prices to better compete with the then rising Japanese luxury brands like Lexus and Infiniti. But when you're purchasing a W140 without any form of warranty, remember the general statement: there are two happy days in the life of a W140 owner... the day he/she purchased it and the day he/she sold it!! :D |
Well I have decided that a W140 will have to wait until after school! :D As my friend said "your playing with the devil!" :D
So if I do sell my W126 I am thinking W210 E420/430. |
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There's a lot of separate ECUs that were later combined into a few modules. As an engineer, the reliability of the resultant combined module HAS to be better than that of the individual modules that my car has. But in practice, the car has been a 'tank' of reliability sort of going against the odds. The guality of the car is better than the later versions, so do agree with you. Nothing of consequence has 'died' and all systems are operational and the interior leather appears as new. And as I said before, this has been the cheapest MB in repair cost than any of my other MBs. My MOST expensive was a 190E, BION. |
As a mercedes technician I tell everyone who asks to stay away from any 140 chassis car. They are huge money pits. On any given day I can take any random 140 and find 1000$ worth of necessary repairs on the spot. The suspensions ARE problematic with control arm bushings that are underengineered, shock mounts that loosen up and rattle, front springs that break....ect....Add in door checks, window regulators, vacuum pumps, blower regulators, a/c evaporators that are all common problems and you havn't even stopped it from leaking or fixed the check engine light yet. Bottom line is that as someone who intimately knows these cars, you couldn't give me one. They are in my opinion one of the biggest piles of **** to ever roll off a mercedes assembly line. That being said they are and will continue to be the backbone of the independant mercedes repair shops for the next 10 years.
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duxthe1...that is a very convincing...but really none of those items you mentioned are very expensive fixes( especially considering the price of the car) except the evaporator core.
That being said I owned one for five years and it is still the best one of the three in my opinion that I have owned...the others being a 85 126 and a 1992 124...could the 140 be problematic..yes at times...but probably the best quality car I have ever seen interms of material finish and amenities...look at some of those older cars with higher mileage...see any rust(if you live in the nothern states) and look at how incredible the interiors look for those that compare to the 126...I don't that that is a even comparision....to me the 140 was definitely a step up...in materials,finish and amenities In the 5 years I owned mine 90% of the work was done at the dealer by a tech who knew the body style inside and out, and mine was a very early production 1992 at that it is not car for those who don't like to maintain their cars...seems like that should be the common theme here....its a car for perfectionists who appreaciate the very best Warren 1992 300SD(sold) 2000 BMW 740i w/sports package |
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My general belief is that parts may be more expensive, but the pre-1995 ones have to be at least as durable as the W126. Afterall, they were engineered with a bigger "hang the expense" attitude (double glazed windows anyone? Door closing assist?) than the W126 was engineered with. Additionally, M-B had to prove to the world (including snobs like Rolls-Royce) that they were still the kings of automotive engineering. No chances were taken with the W140 in engineering. And with Acura, Lexus and Infiniti offering similar M-B products for $20,000 less, that ought to be the case. The best W140 to get? A well maintained, pre-1995 version. Of course, that greatly narrows down what you can find as you'd be looking at cars from just 3 model years. But do yourself and your wallet and favor and stick to that rule and you most likely won't regret it!! |
I have a 1995 S-350, so I am curious. Exactly what is different in a post '95 as opposed to a pre '95. I have read of some of the sensors were combined but looks like to me the car would be improved upon every year. Usually the last year in a series is the most trouble free one. The only thing that I can find different in a '94 from my '95 350 is that the '95 don't have the little antennas that go up when you put the car in reverse. Not something I would call poorer quality. I mean is the leather thinner, or materials sub-quality or what. Most of the parts I buy is for the W140 series car reguardless of the year. The springs, suspension, body panels, etc did not change; they just added more electronic controls like leveling, stability, and brake assist.
I think Mercedes reduced the price to compete with the Japanese. Some things like the rear antenna guides were removed but they were probably problematic anyway. Anybody have any specific changes as to quality to back up these statements? |
I think they lost the map pocket in the front doors....the electric interior rear view mirror...no more becker radio and CD changer...cleaner grill design...mono colored bottom body panels
Warren 1992 300SD(sold) 2000 740i w/sports package |
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-New bumpers and new plastic side flanks (New design to make the car look less bulkier, also cheaper to make) -New rear lenses (softer edges, and if you buy them at the parts dept.: much, much cheaper compared to pre-95 models) -Deletion of rear parking assist antennas (a great design touch ommited because of high-cost and the introduction of the new "Parktronic" -extra cost feature in most markets, as opposed to the antennas that were standard everywhere-). -Deletion of standard power rear seat for S500/S600 (then made optional for entire model range) -Deletion of standard fully power rear headrests for S500/S600 (couldn't be obtained anymore - you could lower the headrests but not raise them electronically) -New A/C electronic center dash panel controls (much cheaper to manufacture than the previous one and wears and breaks much faster). -New interior door panel design. It deletes the very useful storage compartment pre-95 models had, although it addresses a problem that the armrest was too thin and people's elbows would not reach it comfortably (the new armrest is much thickier, although it reduces seat space a little). This change also ommitted several internal parts in the doors (including some electric wiring), replaced many existing ones with cheaper lighter parts and combined switches, all cost cutting measures. -New headlight lens design (much cheaper to make, although it is said to be 30% brighter, which I would say it is!). Remember that the new Xenon lights (much more expensive) were optional in most markets -Ride height was lowered an average of 1.5 inches, depending on model and extras fitted. This was done mainly to reduce bulk look and to favor airflow (read: more mpg). -Mechanically many systems were changed in the engine compartment and the chassis. Bits and ends mainly to reduce costs (end result: lower quality in many cases). -The infrared remote lock system was changed by a more reliable (and cheaper to manufacture) system. 10/ Many interior materials were cheapen also, the standard leather for example. But, the new more expensive and softer Nappa leather was made available. Even though these are items that couldn't be noticed easily by customers, they obviously weren't as durable as the original, over engineered interior parts used before '95. |
None of those things would stop me from buying a post 95 W140. The little antennas that pop up out of the trunk are kind of stupid. I won't miss them, besides all that crap eventually leaks into the trunk so you have to replace some seals. Looks like they just got rid of some standard features, no big deal. I never sit in the rear seat so if it isn't power big loss.
I see a lot of clean 96 and 97 S320's going for real good prices I would snag one of those. |
I'm not trying to convince you not to purchase a post 1995 W140. What you do with your money is none of my business. I was just replying to the other guy's post in which he requested that someone list all the "cheapening."
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No, they are NOT . . . .
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Hmm I have never backed a W140, maybe they help. Their is a late 90's S500 down the street from me that has been for sale for a few weeks. I really like the W140 it does feel like more car compared to the W126.
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