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Which Car Would You buy? 56k Warning
I need to buy another car as a daily driver and I'm looking for #1 reliability and #2 style. I have found 5 cars that I can buy for the same price. (Please keep in mind that the BMWs have newer style lights that you can buy and are plug and play.) So, if you had to choose between the following cars that are in the same condition, same amount of mileage and same price..which would you choose:
Option #1 - 1995 W124 E320 or E420 http://img142.echo.cx/img142/3474/13575526195ms.jpg http://img142.echo.cx/img142/7268/13575526207ew.jpg http://img142.echo.cx/img142/5761/13575526145lo.jpg http://img142.echo.cx/img142/9496/13575526158kg.jpg Option #2 - 1997 W210 E320 http://img142.echo.cx/img142/9263/6741ym.jpg http://img142.echo.cx/img142/512/8d49rc.jpg http://img142.echo.cx/img142/5758/2d45cd.jpg http://img142.echo.cx/img142/9893/3643ps.jpg |
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Tough call.
I REALLY like the shape of the 740iL. Most of the ones in the years you specified has taken a pretty healthy depreciation hit and are affordable. One side of me is torn between their sexy shape and amenities, but the more practical side says the Lexus 400LS is going to be less expensive in the long run and will probably better retain its resale (if that matters?). I also like the 540i, but for me the proportions and style of the 740iL get me going. I have read the 740's have issues with trans, air flow meters, display units and radiator necks that may result in head damage. Most claim that by around 100k these items have probably been replaced lowering some potential repair costs. The Mercedes, you specified, of the same vintage don't really do anything for me. My $0.02. Tinker |
Its a slam dunk for me.
Though the 210 tail lights are nice I never liked the headlamps, but I like the w124 I hate BMW wire issues so its the W124 for me. But its yur choice and I hope you enjoy the one you choose. |
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Air flow meters- I heard it was the senso that fails around 80k+. Display units- missing pixel problems in electronic displays can go. Radiator Necks- yes they go at roughly 60k-90k. You missed the 2 other problems on the E38 list of problems which are cup holders break and catalytic converters are expensive and start to go at around 100k+ If these issues have already been adressed than the car should be worry free. That is why the E38 BMW 7 got my vote and not the W140. The W140 evaporator core job alone costs $$$$$ and not to mention the rest of the known issues. |
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#1 reliability
Lexus for sure.......... Although I drive 89 560SEL/ 94 E420/ 97 S500/ 97 S600 now.....none give me big problem |
I would go with LS400. According to one news report, a 10 year old LS is more reliable than a new 7 series.
The tecnhology in the W124 is from the late 70's, and is no comparison for the LS, in ride, handling, safety and comfort. Also, LS is far superior in noise, vibration and harshness levels. As for the W210, I drove a 01 E55 AMG and was not very impressed. I have spent some time comparing the systems on the 95 LS and 94 E, and the LS is very immpresive. Cost for the repair parts vary, AC compressor is cheaper for the LS but the Air Flow Meter is a whole lot more expensive for the LS. At the same time, the design on the LS is such that it will work for 500,000 as opposed to the E, where it needs replacing every 60-100,000 miles. You can buy subscriptions on www.alldatadiy.com, compare the systems on all the cars you are interested in, find out what the repair parts costs and how long it takes to replace them along with service bulletins. I would buy a 98 or later LS400/430. In 98, five speed transmission was introduced, along with Navigation and the updated V8 produces 290 hp. An overview of forums below will reveal that the LS has very few and very different problems then the E! http://us.lexusownersclub.com/forums http://www.clublexus.com/forums/index.php |
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BTW I've been in a 04 E55 AMG and that car is impressive. I've never been in a W210 E320 or E55. How do you feel about the E38 1997 BMW 740 compared to the 1995 LS400? |
without a doubt...
w124 ALL THE WAY!!!
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Thank You |
Well I prefer the W210 to the 5 series, but a 540I would be a fun car.
On the other hand the Lexus LS400's are not a bargin, parts are very expensive and I would rather fix a broken MB then a broken Lexus. However you cannot go wrong if you want a cheap ride. I really like the 740's, a lot that would be at the top of my list. However didn't the late 90's BMW's have problems with their engines losing compression? The Nikisel(sp?) coatings would wear off the cylinder walls and cause the engines to lose compression. My friends sister was dating a guy for a long time with a 97 740IL. BMW picked up the tab when the engine lost compression. It was only 3 years old when the engine blew. I know the 98-99 XJ8's also had this problem. |
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Not 100% sure I'll ask.
What about a newer XJ8? For like $17k you can get an 01 XJ8 with under 80k on it. |
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w124 vs ES300
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the ES300 is indeed a fabulous vehicle - plenty of power, comfortable, etc. i've never had any significant problems with it. definitely reliable. my 300E, sadly, has seen a couple owners before me. if i could have been the first owner she still wouldn't look a day old. i spend hefty amounts of both time and money on trying to bring her back up to par with the lexus. but this certainly doesn't mean that the 300E's unreliable, she's just not in supreme condition. the only time she's ever died on me was when the (probably original) alternator went kaput [naturally, it happened at 1am, going home to san diego from LA... and in the pouring rain. cost me about 200 bucks to tow her all the way home... it sucked]. as far as reliability goes, i'd say the two are about neck and neck. but when it comes to styling and downright beauty... the 300E wins by a landslide. in my opinion, the w124 chassis is by far the most gorgeous piece of machinery ever built. everything about it is perfect... i could just sit and look at one all day. :D |
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e420.... eat as much gas as a E320 (i am surprised)... silky smooth... powerful and very quiet! S500... another M119 family member, smooth and powerful, and it is a 97...feel like it is more powerful then my E420 in hi rev. S600..... when u start the car....Burrrrr......ROOOOOOOOOOOOOOOMMMMMMMMMMM it is a little noiser than my S500....o well.... i enjoy the engine sound anyway no big problem with my car.... 560 got monovalve problem, which is a cheap and easy DIY job E420, AC still blow ice cold... S500, luckily i dont have the troublsome ADS system, but the rear suspension start making funny noise... maybe time to replace S600......i will let u know if i get any problem..... |
From the Lexus Forum
>>I'm replacing my upper control arm bushings today, and I noticed that my left lower ball joint is shot. P/N 43340-59016, Dealer price=$129.83, Napa=$114.45, the cheapest on-line is about $70, so far as I've found. I seem to recall a post on this site a few weeks ago, where somebody found balljoints for $45! Were they for the Gen I? John << The lower ball joint for my 124 was $28 Cdn. from the dealer. I think you will find the Lexus very reliable but parts prices are high. You can find more examples on the forum. Jorg |
#5 740 is a beautiful car. I don't know on how reliable the car is... but it has this "w126" look to it that I really like.
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From what I gather at the Lexus club, I would avoid 1995 LS400. That is the first year of Lexus Gen II. 1990-1994 is Lexus Gen I. Nothing I read there indicates that ANY dealer repair is cheap. I have complete dealer records for my 1990 LS400 from the OO and there are some wallet busters, i.e. p/s. Lexus labor is not cheap and neither are the parts. I haven't done any repairs yet to the Lexus, only driven it for 10k, but in checking brake parts, the Lexus is way more than the W124. I enjoy driving the Lexus more because 1) Trying to conserve miles on my 300CE, 2) the previous Lexus owner upgraded to bigger wheels and low profile tires so it handles pretty nice, 3) the AC/Heater in the 300CE is primitive compared to the Lexus.
glenmore 1991 300CE 1990 LS400 |
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The newer Jags are very reliable cars in my research people recomended an XJ8/6 over a W140/740IL. Also over the Lexus, sure most of them are reliable but when they do break it isn't cheap. Not to mention the interiors are not as nice and they are kind of bland. For a cheap to run high end car I would stick to a: E320/420/430 XJ6/8 maybe, maybe an S320/S420. http://forums.jag-lovers.org/index.php3 Try these guys almost as good as this forum. I don't know much about BMW's except that they can be pricy to keep in good shape. I am pretty sure Gilly has a 540I similer to the one you are looking at. 99 maybe? Maybe you could shoot him an email, I remember him saying it cost more then his MB's but was a fun car to drive. |
How do you feel about the E38 1997 BMW 740 compared to the 1995 LS400?
Lino, I do not have a lot of information on the BMW, but I would say that the handling on the E38 will be better than all your other choices. At the same time, it is more likely that the BMW was driven like a sports car, increasing wear on the suspension componets, engine and transmission, compared to the LS. On a 95 LS, 90,000 miles service at the dealer is from $1000-1500 and includes timing chain and water pump replacement. The other item which is difficult to access is the starter. The instrument panel/AC panel may require attention. The engine computer on the 95 was updated. Around 100,000 miles (10 years), some suspension componets may require attention. The tires are V-rated as the maximum speed is 149 mph. Avoid the air suspension. Other than these items, you should only have minor problem (eg O2 sensor). Some of these items can be fixed fairly easily without the dealers assistance. The 95 E320 issues are Evaporator ($2000), wiring harness ($850), head gasket ($2200), throttle actuator ($1400). W210 has rust issues, spring perch failure, harmonic balancer failure, window regulators, early 5 speed transmissions etc. |
We've had 2 E38s in our family- a 740i, and later a 740iL. Let me tell you, they are among the best driving cars on the planet. Silky smooth ride, every power/convenience feature you an think of, very powerful (the '96+ with the 4.4 more so than the '95, which was lacking in low end torque. Our 740i was a '95, which we got rid of due to the Nikasil issue), responsive handling (handled amazingly well for their size), incredible stability at high speed, excellent brakes, lots of safety features, solid structure and build quality, great looking, I could go on and on....
However, those cars are very costly to maintain. I would not even think of one without an extended warranty. The V8 has some cooling system issues, and the electronic gadgets are suspect to failure over time. Also annoying was the pixels constantly burning out on the interior displays. The car, due to its weight, went through brake pads like they were going out of style. Overall, the E38 is in a class of its own, and I think it is easily a better car than the W140 (bring on the flames!), but the cost to maintain that car was just too much in the long run. I guess if money were not an object, we would still have those cars, but due to maintenance costs we ended up getting a W210 E430, which has been fairly bulletproof, with far lower operating costs. Still, the W210, as nice as it is, does not compare with the E38; The E38 (excluding upkeep) is a far superior car. I would say that maintenance-wise, aside from the headgasket issues on the '97 E320, and the possibility of some tranny problems (being the first year of the 722.6), overall maintenance will be cheaper. I also think a 5-series would be a little cheaper to maintain than a 7, particularly the 528i, which has a less complicated interior trip computer/digital display setup than the 540 (far fewer pixels to burn out), and a more reliable engine/cooling system. The W124 is a solid, reliable car with few issues, and the styling still looks fantastic even today. However, the newer BMWs have surpassed that platform in regard to ride and handling, and the W210 E320 is a much more modern car, and should be fairly reliable also. As for the LS400, we have also had Lexuses in our family and their operating costs have been substantially lower than the German cars, but at the same time the Germans are simply more fun. I think the 2nd and 3rd generation GS, the original SC and the IS cars are the only really exciting Lexuses made. However, if you want something reliable, Lexus should be up ther eon your list. The V8 engine is super-smooth, and the ride is excellent. The LS even handles surprisingly well, given its plush ride. Also, if you don't mind a large coupe, you should look into the Lexus SC300 and SC400. You should be able to pick up '92'096 models is your price bracket. They are solid cars, and very reliable. The 300 has the same inline 6 as the non-turbo Supra, so there is plenty of power to be made there is you go to the aftermarket. The SC400 is more of a cruiser, with effortless power, and more standard equipment. Most SC400s came with the optional Nakamichi sound system, which is one of the best systems ever installed in any car, regardless of price. Even the standard Pioneer system is impressive, and far better than anything MB has put out. These cars are comfortable, reliable, and handle well (the 300 more than the 400, due to its lighter weight and better balance). Plus, I think their bodystyle is beautiful and original, which can't be said about many Japanese cars. In any event, good luck with your search. -Nabeel |
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http://www.familycar.com/RoadTests/Lexus1stGen/Lexus1stGen.htm I haven't heard anything bad about Generation 2 though. You got me curious now. Do you know anything that should definitely stop me from buying a 1995? The power steering pump matter has a an alternative fix that is more reasonable than the dealer's outrageous price. Same with the cluster issue. http://www.lexls.com/tutorials.html |
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Thank you for the Lexus info! The E38 BMW 7 series owners if older will drive it tame typically. On the other hand, BMWs tend to tease you and encourage you to speed...just by design. That's the affect they hav on me anyway. They're just so fun to drive. I can spot a hard driven BMW and any car I buy will be getting a PPI (Pre Purchase Inspection). |
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Thank you very much for your very detailed response. The E38 is the car I desire most, because it has a balance of everything. Your words of desribing your experience is driving me crazy!!! You make me want to buy one without rationalization. I would not consider a 1995 Nikasil though ;) that's why I thought about a '97 iL. I actually learned how to drive on an E23 BMW 7 series when I was 14, so there is love there. The LS400 maybe boring, but is plush and spacious and has high respect in the reliabilty scale. The SC400 is too cramped for a daily driver. My loss. I do like the performance and driving characteristics of the car though. My friend owned one. The GS and IS are out of the question. I had my fun in an is300. Good car ..too small. When you talk about head gasket jobs and tranny problems on the 1997 E320, I already feel turned off. My silver coupe is getting a new tranny right now. The head gasket was already done. Maybe I should get a Camry or an Accord. But nah...that would be too easy. I have to get something that will keep me coming back to the forum ;) . |
BMW 740i is VERY NICE
When I purchased my 1995 E320, almost 8 years ago, it was considered to be the best used car value for more expensive premium automobiles. Within a year or 2 of my purchase, the newer version of the 5 Series BMW became the best-rated used car value in the premium used car market. I don’t know all of the model numbers and dates for the changes in the BMWs, but at some point the BMW solved many of their issues with reliability and thus the 5 series became a preferred purchase. I love my 1995 E320, but I think the 1997 5 Series might be as good or even better as a used car value. My w124 does have a more unique appearance, since there are just so many 5 Series BMWs that look so much alike. In my neighborhood, you don’t see as many nice W124s these days.
I just can’t get excited about the Lexus LS. They may be great cars, but somehow I just don’t feel any excitement about them. I feel about the same way about the W210 E-Class. I just never fell in love with them. I love the looks of the new W211, but the W210s just don’t do it for me. As for the 7-Series BMW, I have to say that the short wheelbase version of the car is one of the few vehicles that makes me feel like I would be willing to trade for my E320. I think the long wheelbase ruins the sporty look and feel of the 7 Series, however, so I would only consider the shorter version. I have a feeling that the maintenance might be an issue, but I think the 740i is definitely one of the finest looking cars on the road today. I love my E320, but a 740i is VERY NICE http://forums.mbnz.org/gallery/pics/W124_57782.jpg |
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http://www.cnn.com/US/9706/18/luxury.cars/ |
There will be many more 5-series, 7-series and E-class, but only one W124!
IMO The 7 is nicer inside and out than the 5 if you can afford to buy/run it..
Objectively, they are all newer/more advanced/plain better than a W124 based vehicle. However, none of them are a really special car. None of them are a modern day classic like the W124. So many people have a story to tell about a W123 or 124 Mercedes they owned once, and appreciate it for being one of the last really great Mercedes, that it would be nice to own and drive one of the best of them while they're still relatively modern, before the newer disposable Mercedes become your only choice! So if you want a great car on your driveway that is capable of filling you with emotion, and makes you want to polish it often, a well equipped W124 is lovely. However, if you want the best car to drive around like everyone else does, the 7 series is tasty. Russ |
You are a lucky guy!
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2. I think you definitely have the W124 covered, since you already have 2. Nobody can say you don’t appreciate the W124! 3. If it isn’t exciting, I definitely don’t want it. 4. I think the sportier short (regular) wheelbase 7 Series BMW is definitely a “SPECIAL” automobile. It seems to have a little more road presence than a W124 and I think it smokes the S-Class, because of the sportier look and feel. I think always being broken and costing tons of money to fix would be the only things that could tarnish the awesome 740i You are a lucky guy to be able to have 2 W124s and consider buying a 7 Series. |
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I appreciate your comments and your point of view. If you were to choose a W124 which model and year would be on your list. The 500e, E500, E60, Hammer and such not included ;) |
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I guess whether lino ends up with a W124, E38, or one of the other choices, it will be a very good car! :) |
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A nice late E320 is very nice, as is the E320 coupe (320CE), although strangely I think the saloon looks newer. Of course you've also got the cabrio, a very desirable car which seems to be going up in value (as Mercedes cabriolets tend to) which probably makes a good investment if you don't want your car depreciating to nothing like any of these others will, yet is also completely useable everyday with normal running costs. A late model in dark metallic is by some way the best looking IMO, sportline package makes it look better too (lower etc). Quote:
good luck whatever you get. |
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On avoiding the first year 1995 Gen II, this is the "gist" I get from the Lexus forum on avoiding the first year of a model change. As with the Gen I, the more recent model years would be better. I remember a comment made on these boards along the lines of "avoid any 1995 model year car". Mercedes had their wiring harness problems in this year. I've been lucky with my cluster and LCD display. Everything works, knock on wood. glenmore 1991 300CE 1990 LS400 |
And I was thinking that the LS400 was an old person's car:
http://www.clublexus.com/gallery/showphoto.php/photo/39070/sort/1/cat/505/page/4 http://www.clublexus.com/gallery/showphoto.php/photo/39068/sort/1/cat/505/page/4 http://www.clublexus.com/gallery/showphoto.php/photo/39067/sort/1/cat/505/page/4 Looks like the Lex can be a sport/agressive looking car :cool: Not as much of a bore as I thought. I wonder what size rims and tires those cars have? |
Old, but not dead yet
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Old guys can get crazy too. |
Lino,
FWIW, I was making the same decision as you (one year ago). I wanted to buy a car for my wife to replace her aging 940 Volvo, which she absolutely loved. My criteria was (1) a luxury RWD sedan that (2) couldn't be a Ford/GM/Mopile - not sexy enough, according to my wife (3) I could do 80% of the wrenching on (maintenance) and (4) I could purchase for under $15k. My thoughts then/now on some of the models I considered: BMW 3/5/7 series --- always loved the look of these cars. I can't say reliability ever scared me - actually, quite the opposite. For the most part, BMWs seem to run forever (driveline), althought the little things could put a hurting on you financially if you took it to an indy/dealer to handle those items. I felt with all the great Web sites / forums dedicated to this "drivers car", I would have plenty of support in troubleshooting any BMW I purchased. Why didn't I buy a BMW? Ride is too harsh. Don't like seating position - not that comfortable to me. Don't really *care* for much of the BMW interior components. My wife would've hated it. Lexus --- These are supposed to be super reliable cars. But, there was no way I was going to buy one - this after doing weeks of research on Lexus forums - due to the cost of parts and dealer/indy maintenance if required. And I understand, eventually --- it's required and quite painful. So, the Lexus was never a serious consideration for me. Mercedes --- I suppose the reason I ended up getting a **94-95 W124 E320** were the ride/drive, ease of maintenance, availability of relatively cheap parts, longevity of driveline, availability of cheap unmolested (original-owner cars) and classic look --- oh yes, and great forums like these with members from around the world who drive AND know how to work on these cars. To me, the W124 is like a 940 Volvo on steroids. And that is a great thing, as owning and working on Volvo 940s is what made me really appreciate European auto engineering for the first time. Oh yes, and she loves the engine on her '95 model. Smooth, powerful and gets 26 mpg on the interstate. After owning for one year (and replacing shocks/struts, water pump, serpentine belt and tensioner components, valve cover gasket, starter motor, cabin filters, oil pressure sending unit, coolant hoses.....(I think that's it ;) .... and doing it myself, mostly for preventative maintenance reasons on a 10-year-old car, I have saved a fortune), I have been pleased with owning such a reliable car. I also considered 96-98 E320s, but I felt --- and do today --- my ability to diagnose/maintain these cars would not be as great as our '95 E320. And the cost of ownership would've been higher. My wife really likes the look of the rounded headlights on these cars, though. But, she does love her '95 model. ------------ I think if I could go back and do anything differently, I might have considered the MB diesel models (E300) a little more seriously. Good luck Lino! Have fun with your decision. |
Diesel might be cool
I like the idea of a diesel too. I love my in-line 6-cylinder and the mileage is OK, but the diesel would make me feel more ecofriendly. In this day and age, better mileage and options for alternative fuels, seems very appropriate. Supposedly, you can run the diesel on cooking oil or some other renewable fuel source. :cool:
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Although you found the BMW seating position not to your liking, I am very used to it since I'ven owned so many BMWs and I don't mind it all. Lexus is just a car I've been wanting to own since never had one before. You saved a pile of money by doing that work to your W124. :thumbsup: Quote:
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